Doing ... ok.... on my first run - probably going to restart to get a fresh start cause the game difficutly is ramping up fast and the new update.
I am running into an issue and curious how others are handling it. I'm in July / August in my current playthrough I have 4 squads - each squad has a full group of 8/9 soldiers - have the spark - did the AH content and started seeing rulers - they aren't as big of a deal as vanilla but where I'm at now I can't seem to complete ambush missions - even on light/very light with a relatively large squad. Pods are HUGE and can never engage one by itself. I dont have everyone outfitted w/ Laser and Predator and am spending all of my dough trying to do so. My question is am I spending in the wrong areas? Cause 4 squads x 8 x 30 supplies for predator is like $1000 supplies. Then tack on if everyone gets laser - its adding up for me and I can't spend on GTS, buildings, perks from black market. I find myself juggling the laser weapons and having to budget them between squads. I've been ramping up my haven folks to supply cause I just need the dough but I know I'm probably killing my chances and will lose to avatar.
So in summary - how many squads do you guys run? Do you outfit them w/ new gear asap or wait?
I probably just suck at long war ...
# of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
btw - playing on veteran, also this mod is the S#!T
Thanks Commanders
Thanks Commanders
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
I definitely wouldn't invest in trying to outfit your entire roster with low level gear. I think every commander swaps the gear around between squads, especially early game. I give my armor to front row troops like gunners, assaults, infantry (techs if i have spares). I currently have 5 suits (4 predator + 1 mobility) and 6x alloy plating in total. I got all of the different laser weapons, but I started out with building 4 rifles. About 2-3 months later, I gradually got all the other guns.hatchma1 wrote:Doing ... ok.... on my first run - probably going to restart to get a fresh start cause the game difficutly is ramping up fast and the new update.
I am running into an issue and curious how others are handling it. I'm in July / August in my current playthrough I have 4 squads - each squad has a full group of 8/9 soldiers - have the spark - did the AH content and started seeing rulers - they aren't as big of a deal as vanilla but where I'm at now I can't seem to complete ambush missions - even on light/very light with a relatively large squad. Pods are HUGE and can never engage one by itself. I dont have everyone outfitted w/ Laser and Predator and am spending all of my dough trying to do so. My question is am I spending in the wrong areas? Cause 4 squads x 8 x 30 supplies for predator is like $1000 supplies. Then tack on if everyone gets laser - its adding up for me and I can't spend on GTS, buildings, perks from black market. I find myself juggling the laser weapons and having to budget them between squads. I've been ramping up my haven folks to supply cause I just need the dough but I know I'm probably killing my chances and will lose to avatar.
So in summary - how many squads do you guys run? Do you outfit them w/ new gear asap or wait?
I probably just suck at long war ...
For rescue and hacking mission i find that bringing a ultra light/high mobility squad works pretty well. If i don't see myself succeeding the mission, i pull out. Anything above "light" and i don't even bother.
I usually go in with a shinobi and a specialist (sometimes 2 shinobis). SMG's, a smoke on both and a battlescanner on the shinobi. The smoke is for letting the rescued VIPS dash to any cover or running down the timer in hacking missions. I have a smoke on both depending on who has to go in to complete the objective.
As for the missions with a lot of pods, I suppose this thread from the strategy section should have some helpful information:
http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... 16&t=23814
there's a few others in the strategysection ii you're willing to browse through them.
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
I suspect you're doing something wrong then. I'm on Veteran, and I seem to be in a much better place, although I'm not nearly as far into the game as you, timewise. I've been watching Xwynns playthrough on Youtube, and that has kept me relatively well informed (although, even he admits a rush for Liberation is a bad strategy). It gives a basic idea of what you can do, and what you should do. Of greatest note is probably how to control pod activation, and run certain missions with full stealth (in particular, the famous solo-shinobi runs).
One thing I'm curious about is your squad size. 4 squads of 8 people each? I rarely field more than 6 soldiers at a time. I'm currently running 3 squads at a time, with enough laser weapons for almost all of them (You can skimp on getting Laser SMGs, as you generally get SMGs for classes that don't use their primary weapon often). I've got enough predator armor to keep all the front line units equipped with it (Assaults and Technicals, primarily). I'm now focused on upgrading secondaries, but that's a matter of corpses, which is a bit unreliable.
Now, if you're problem is lots of large squads, then you might want to invest more heavily in Shinobi (for scouting, you can spot an unactivated pod, and make sure your troops never wander into their line of sight while fighting your current pod) as well as units with a lot of AoE capability, like Grenadiers, Technicals and Gunners.
However, it's also possible that you're doing everything right now, but you got off to a sufficiently poor start that you can't make up for it, in which case a new game might be the best option. I rushed straight for lasers (with a slight detour to unlock contacting other regions) before taking a more even handed approach with my research. I also happily sold my elerium cores to the black market when they were worth extra, and have put off my Proving Grounds for quite a while. I've built a GTS, then AWC, and then pushed down to an exposed conduit to build a labratory on top of. I presently have several unused rooms which I won't be filling until I can build a power facility on top of the second power conduit. I almost never purchased anything from the Black Market (I think my sole exception was for some alloy), and generally try to disassemble corpses for alloy rather than sell them for cash.
One thing I do, which I don't think Xwynns does, is switch my havens between intel and supply often. My C Team is mostly just "Whomever is left", so I'm in no great push to do missions for them. So if I have 2 active missions running, I turn off a bit of Intel gathering for supplies. If I get three running, then everything is turned to supplies. This should be worth a modest trickle of extra supplies.
Hopefully this info helps you out, should you start over again. One bit of warning, apparently in 1.1 the Lost Towers mission starts much later, so you'll have to wait a while longer to get your SPARK back. I got mine in 1.0, and then waited for 1.1 to release the buff to them, so I've had a bit of extra firepower. It doesn't hurt that a SPARK does just fine without upgraded equipment for the early game.
One thing I'm curious about is your squad size. 4 squads of 8 people each? I rarely field more than 6 soldiers at a time. I'm currently running 3 squads at a time, with enough laser weapons for almost all of them (You can skimp on getting Laser SMGs, as you generally get SMGs for classes that don't use their primary weapon often). I've got enough predator armor to keep all the front line units equipped with it (Assaults and Technicals, primarily). I'm now focused on upgrading secondaries, but that's a matter of corpses, which is a bit unreliable.
Now, if you're problem is lots of large squads, then you might want to invest more heavily in Shinobi (for scouting, you can spot an unactivated pod, and make sure your troops never wander into their line of sight while fighting your current pod) as well as units with a lot of AoE capability, like Grenadiers, Technicals and Gunners.
However, it's also possible that you're doing everything right now, but you got off to a sufficiently poor start that you can't make up for it, in which case a new game might be the best option. I rushed straight for lasers (with a slight detour to unlock contacting other regions) before taking a more even handed approach with my research. I also happily sold my elerium cores to the black market when they were worth extra, and have put off my Proving Grounds for quite a while. I've built a GTS, then AWC, and then pushed down to an exposed conduit to build a labratory on top of. I presently have several unused rooms which I won't be filling until I can build a power facility on top of the second power conduit. I almost never purchased anything from the Black Market (I think my sole exception was for some alloy), and generally try to disassemble corpses for alloy rather than sell them for cash.
One thing I do, which I don't think Xwynns does, is switch my havens between intel and supply often. My C Team is mostly just "Whomever is left", so I'm in no great push to do missions for them. So if I have 2 active missions running, I turn off a bit of Intel gathering for supplies. If I get three running, then everything is turned to supplies. This should be worth a modest trickle of extra supplies.
Hopefully this info helps you out, should you start over again. One bit of warning, apparently in 1.1 the Lost Towers mission starts much later, so you'll have to wait a while longer to get your SPARK back. I got mine in 1.0, and then waited for 1.1 to release the buff to them, so I've had a bit of extra firepower. It doesn't hurt that a SPARK does just fine without upgraded equipment for the early game.
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
I don't even try to max out troop equipment. I have one "well rounded" squad which actually rarely goes in because specialists seem so much better. The second squad, the Devils, is all Grenadiers and Technicals. They usually borrow a Shinobi when they deploy. They are for missions where stealth is not particularly relevant. Everything dies in fire. Perks alone make explosives devastating. The third squad, the Swordmen, is all Shinobis and Sharpshooters. They run VIP extractions and haven defense. The wave drop haven assault is hilarious when a pack of Shinobi just run around the map chopping heads as soon as they hit the ground. Fleche doesn't give a damn about tech level when your ninja aren't wearing anything else.
Basically get the GTS ASAP, train your own classes, and give intended squad balance the finger. It's totally legitimate Commander's Choice.
Assaults get armor, Rangers get real guns, that's basically all the tech you need.
Basically get the GTS ASAP, train your own classes, and give intended squad balance the finger. It's totally legitimate Commander's Choice.
Assaults get armor, Rangers get real guns, that's basically all the tech you need.
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
Thanks for all of the ideas. I had like 4 squads with each class - not sending the full force each time - just making them to ensure I keep track of my officer bonuses.
I'm just a wuss and have this "ideal squad" problem. I just need to grow a pair and send out the focused squads you guys suggested and wreck it.
Here we go new campaign - again thx for the help.
I'm just a wuss and have this "ideal squad" problem. I just need to grow a pair and send out the focused squads you guys suggested and wreck it.
Here we go new campaign - again thx for the help.
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
Yah, you generally know the kind of mission you're going into ahead of time, and you need to prepare accordingly. In particular, Snipers are pretty crap on any mission with a pre-determined EVAC point. On those missions, you generally have only a few turns to actually fight, but mostly have to constantly push towards EVAC, which means your Sniper is just going to have to Holotarget spam, in which case you're better off with most other classes. However, they're still pretty fine on player-determined evac missions (Since you can put it one double move away from the sniper), and on 'kill em all' missions, for the usual reasons.
Other considerations are taking more bursty characters on mobile missions (Timed missions with pre-determined evac point). Technicals can really make short work of a pod, allowing you to get moving again as quickly as possible. Grenadiers usually aren't enough to kill on their own, but they can setup kills for the rest of the party fairly well. Assaults are risky, but with a Shinobi spotting for them, you can run and gun with safety (I cannot stress enough how much I've learned from XWynn on vision control).
Conversely, you can take more Snipers and Rangers on missions with a player-determined evac point. Defensive actions like smoke grenades and gunner suppression become more important, as you just try to fend an enemy off while you wait for evac to arrive. If the objective is hackable, bringing a Specialist (or a SPARK) allows you to hack the objective at a distance, preventing you from activating more pods, and keeping all of your soldiers in your well defended zone of control.
And on missions without any kind of timer, soak it up and make sure to reload and let all abilities cooldown between each encounter. Retreat to avoid pods coming to join you, if it might be necessary, unless you think you're in control of a nice defensive area, of course. The longer the mission like this, the more you want to rely on re-usable abilities, than on consumable actions. Technical Rockets are nice, but when facing 20+ enemies, it's oftentimes better to just have a re-usable Gunner. Not that one or two characters with clutch explosives go awry, of course, but classes (and utility items) that don't rely on limited 'charges' will generally be preferred. This is also the mission type where Medics come most in handy.
Other considerations are taking more bursty characters on mobile missions (Timed missions with pre-determined evac point). Technicals can really make short work of a pod, allowing you to get moving again as quickly as possible. Grenadiers usually aren't enough to kill on their own, but they can setup kills for the rest of the party fairly well. Assaults are risky, but with a Shinobi spotting for them, you can run and gun with safety (I cannot stress enough how much I've learned from XWynn on vision control).
Conversely, you can take more Snipers and Rangers on missions with a player-determined evac point. Defensive actions like smoke grenades and gunner suppression become more important, as you just try to fend an enemy off while you wait for evac to arrive. If the objective is hackable, bringing a Specialist (or a SPARK) allows you to hack the objective at a distance, preventing you from activating more pods, and keeping all of your soldiers in your well defended zone of control.
And on missions without any kind of timer, soak it up and make sure to reload and let all abilities cooldown between each encounter. Retreat to avoid pods coming to join you, if it might be necessary, unless you think you're in control of a nice defensive area, of course. The longer the mission like this, the more you want to rely on re-usable abilities, than on consumable actions. Technical Rockets are nice, but when facing 20+ enemies, it's oftentimes better to just have a re-usable Gunner. Not that one or two characters with clutch explosives go awry, of course, but classes (and utility items) that don't rely on limited 'charges' will generally be preferred. This is also the mission type where Medics come most in handy.
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
Could you expand on that a little please? WHat's considered a 'rush'? Why is it bad?Sines wrote:I suspect you're doing something wrong then. I'm on Veteran, and I seem to be in a much better place, although I'm not nearly as far into the game as you, timewise. I've been watching Xwynns playthrough on Youtube, and that has kept me relatively well informed (although, even he admits a rush for Liberation is a bad strategy). It gives a basic idea of what you can do, and what you should do. Of greatest note is probably how to control pod activation, and run certain missions with full stealth (in particular, the famous solo-shinobi runs).
I've been working towards liberation of my first region and just infiltrated a squad with best 10 troops and all the best eq I have last night. 20d+ infil time so a few light missions with the lower ranks to play through first. Im in mid/late June I think and just finished adv mag research.
Re: # of Outfitted Squads & Cost to do so
Well, in his case, he was referring mostly to having not contacted any other regions. This meant that ADVENT forces grew stronger in that area fairly quickly, because it was the only area XCOM was operating in. This greater show of force also meant that he more often had to spend intel on missions in order to speed infiltration, rather than on any other use of it. Lastly, it meant that he almost broke his game, by not having enough intel to actually contact a new region once he liberated South Africa.Hazelnut wrote:Could you expand on that a little please? WHat's considered a 'rush'? Why is it bad?
I've been working towards liberation of my first region and just infiltrated a squad with best 10 troops and all the best eq I have last night. 20d+ infil time so a few light missions with the lower ranks to play through first. Im in mid/late June I think and just finished adv mag research.
A rush was focusing solely on liberating one region, at the cost of contacting any other region.
Also, he didn't send 10 troops into the mission. Since infiltration time increases exponentially the more troops you send in, the more you send to the HQ, the less you're able to do elsewhere. Tying up 8 of your best soldiers for 10 days is long enough, tying up 10 of your best soldiers for 20 days is crippling to your global activities. Of course, sending in more soldiers makes it more likely that all of those soldiers will make it back alive, but I think you can see why attempting it with a smaller party has some advantages. I'm almost ready to go attack my first HQ myself, and I will probably only be sending 8 troops. It doesn't hurt that the sooner the mission gets done, the sooner you can benefit from a liberated region.