Line of Play

[Tiger's Eye]

I remember in vanilla the game would draw a line between your squad and the objective with the enemies spawning/patrolling relative to this line so it would be literally impossible to sneak past pods. There also was only one layout per mission which in combination would hamper replayablity a lot. Is this still a thing in Long War 2?

[johnnylump]

We didn't precisely remove this mechanic but instead abused it a bit -- the schedules generally have much larger spawn and patrol areas for each pod, to the point they frequently overlap with one another. We also have multiple schedules for most alert levels on most common missions -- the guerrilla schedules, used in a bunch of missions, have up to 5 arrangements per alert level. Finally, we have some pod jobs mechanics in which enemies leave their patrol area to do other stuff. Our testers haven't noted any sameyness in missions, so I think we're doing pretty well there.

[mattprice516]

The rubberband thing where pods beeline to you even if you're concealed if you cross the line between them and the objective is also gone in LW2. I think.

[Devon_v]

I've only played a few missions, but I've noticed the AI camping the objective when it's somehing like a data vault or prisoners. If you spawn on a big map, you can spend three or four turns running with no contact, so the AI is definitely not just intercepting you on the line anymore.

I haven't had a chance to try to stealth run a mission yet.

[Frozen Shepard]

I've actually had an entire 6 enemy pod hiding inside the prison cell on a mission before. That was one hell of a surprise.

[GavinRuneblade]

The rubberband thing where pods beeline to you even if you're concealed if you cross the line between them and the objective is also gone in LW2. I think.

I have tried reloading saves to experiment and changing where I moved to see how it influenced a patrol. If it was possible for them to reveal me they ALWAYS did. It never mattered which side of them I went to, if they could spot me they would move to do so. Other than that, they did the same patterned movement regardless of my being closer to the objective, farther, or to either side.

In one case a drone that was flying back and forth across the front of a building for 6 turns decided to go directly away from it and out over a car just so it could spot my scout. In another case I tried to follow a patrol that was circling the objective figuring I had enough turns I could get behind them, follow them into the computer from the back of the building closest to evac, then it would be an easy escape while they were on the wrong side of the building. Every time I got behind them they turned around and revealed me. If I stayed on the building across the street and watched, they looped around the building as normal.

It is a really unmistakable change in behavior when it triggers. So it is not about being closer to the objective, but something about being too close still triggers them to come for you. Can they "hear" movement the same way as gunfire? And if so is a double move louder? Because I didn't try testing that but it might be what's giving me away.

[mattprice516]

No intentional mechanic regarding "hearing" was implemented that I know of in the way that you're talking about (though weapons and explosives do have sound ranges that'll alert nearby pods if they hear them fired). If you have a save that can reliably demonstrate this behavior, I bet they'd be interested in seeing it as removal of the "AI always knows where you are" mechanic was quite intentional. You're talking about before concealment is broken, right?

[mattprice516]

I've actually had an entire 6 enemy pod hiding inside the prison cell on a mission before. That was one hell of a surprise.

Interrogators!

[xwynns]

Gavin - Yes they can hear movement and yes dashing is louder. It's generally a very small range though and I pretty much have never seen it in 100+ small squad missions (but I take wide berths). Also note that you can use this to your advantage by running one of your operatives near them and away so they hear him and go investigate while the other goes after the objective.

[GavinRuneblade]

Gavin - Yes they can hear movement and yes dashing is louder. It's generally a very small range though and I pretty much have never seen it in 100+ small squad missions (but I take wide berths). Also note that you can use this to your advantage by running one of your operatives near them and away so they hear him and go investigate while the other goes after the objective.

Ah, that would be it then. I was watching their movement, then going 1 or 2 tiles outside of reveal range. Pretty much being as close as I could get and still have some cover. I just need to stay farther back. Thanks!

[mattprice516]

Mind blown. I should definitely start taking wider berths as well.

[xwynns]

So there is a chance there is actually a bug here as one other person also had the same issue. If you see it again after keeping a wider berth be sure to report back.

[Arcalane]

I've only played a few missions, but I've noticed the AI camping the objective when it's somehing like a data vault or prisoners. If you spawn on a big map, you can spend three or four turns running with no contact, so the AI is definitely not just intercepting you on the line anymore.

It seems to vary a lot. I notice patrols hang out very close to the VIPs in assassinate/kidnap missions, which makes getting a good kill on them more challenging. On item recovery, they seem to have looser patrol pathing.

I've actually had an entire 6 enemy pod hiding inside the prison cell on a mission before. That was one hell of a surprise.

I've had this happen as well. For added 'what' factor, the aliens patrolled outside of the cell, kicking open the door in the process. However, in order to have the VIP leave the cell, I had to hack the (open) door so that they could "open" it and walk out.

It was very strange.