Incendiary grenade has a radius of 1 tile. :(

[OhGod]

Been falling behind a bit on the research / weapons, but finally unlocked incendiary grenades only to find out they have a radius of 1! I tested with a regular soldier (grenadiers are busy atm) and the highlight is indeed a single tile. The visual explosion looked bigger, but only a single tile/enemy was highlighted/damaged. I guess grenadiers will add 1 tile, giving it a 3x3 but this still seems very small.

Intended or bug? My mod list is very small; Capnbubs accessories, gotcha, perfect info, evac all, show health.

[Arcalane]

Looks pretty intentional to me. It has much higher damage now, and the burn effect prevents enemies from doing much besides run around screaming. If the radius was too big, it would be an even better flashbang.

[mattprice516]

Yup. It does more direct damage than any other grenade type and sets the enemy on fire, dealing further damage and preventing any actions other than basic melee attacks.

S'pretty good.

[OhGod]

Sure, I saw the increased damage, but at 1x1 standard, and I guess 3x3 with grenadier I can't see it hitting more than one enemy. I already have much better options for damaging a single target. I guess with later grenade launchers, and maybe spec'd into volatile it could start being useful but currently seems a waste for such an early research. Ah well, something to skip in future.

[mattprice516]

It's a very good "delete this enemy now" button. Certainly has its downsides though.

[NephilimNexus]

Thanks for the handy bit of info. Now I can save myself a nice chunk of precious proving grounds time by skipping the nerf-ball.

[Arcalane]

Keep in mind when I say 'much higher damage' I mean "9 to 11 on a grenadier". I used one to great effect on the first Regional ADVENT HQ I hit by dropping it on top of the top-ranking officer. This kept him out of the fight for ~2-3 turns because he was running back and forth flailing like a lunatic, on top of nuking about a third to a half his health outright. He then lost most of the rest of it to the burn damage, so by the time he put himself out again he only had ~4hp left.

Keep in mind that said top-ranking officers confer powerful radial bonuses on other ADVENT forces and, by themselves, are extremely dangerous. You might laugh a bit when you first see them because of their general appearance, but they are no joke even on Rookie.

Is the radius a little too small? Probably. But it's still an effective weapon if used properly.

[Goumindong]

Is the range 3x3 on a grenadier? Because if it is then that seems just fine.

3x3 would make them really strong on normal units..

Also do they count as explosive grenades for the purposes of needle grenades?

[OhGod]

...Now I can save myself a nice chunk of precious proving grounds time...

Right? Not to mention the cash. It looks like Acid Grenades are equally radius challenged, so I don't think I'll be bothering with them until I have the better 'bomb' variants and the Mk2 launcher.

I guess I'll try some special ammo projects instead (venom or talon rounds available I think), but worried they've been hit too.

...9 to 11...

Unless there's a lot more damage over time, that's still not great. Standard grenades hit for ~4, and I can usually hit 4+ targets so that's an easy 16 damage, and they're free so I can carry 4 per grenadier. Not to mention the damage a good rocket (free, again) can do from the Technical. Maybe I need more ranged single target damage later - I'll be doing the first HQ shortly - but for now shinobi, sniper or assault (22 damage, single shot recently!) are doing the single target work for me. Grenadiers are more the crowd thinner. Maybe that's an adjustment I need to make as I get deeper into the campaign.

[Arcalane]

Is the range 3x3 on a grenadier? Because if it is then that seems just fine.

3x3 would make them really strong on normal units..

It's basically a + shape with the baseline grenade launcher. I forget if the mag-tier one ups the radius even more.

~~

...9 to 11...

Unless there's a lot more damage over time, that's still not great. Standard grenades hit for ~4, and I can usually hit 4+ targets so that's an easy 16 damage, and they're free so I can carry 4 per grenadier. Not to mention the damage a good rocket (free, again) can do from the Technical. Maybe I need more ranged single target damage later - I'll be doing the first HQ shortly - but for now shinobi, sniper or assault (22 damage, single shot recently!) are doing the single target work for me. Grenadiers are more the crowd thinner. Maybe that's an adjustment I need to make as I get deeper into the campaign.

It's definitely not for everyone, I was just giving an example of where one of them was very effective for me. Unfortunately the officer spent most of his time out of my line of sight, so I couldn't be sure exactly how much burn damage he was taking (I think, though, that it's 2-3).

Keep in mind that XCOM2 had a 'bug' whereby certain +damage perks also applied to the DoT effects on explosives. Not sure if this was ever fixed or still applies to LW2, but it was extremely strong.

~~

...Now I can save myself a nice chunk of precious proving grounds time...

Right? Not to mention the cash. It looks like Acid Grenades are equally radius challenged, so I don't think I'll be bothering with them until I have the better 'bomb' variants and the Mk2 launcher.

I guess I'll try some special ammo projects instead (venom or talon rounds available I think), but worried they've been hit too.

I haven't seen any nerfs to ammo at least- if anything, LW2 added more - like Shredder (+2dmg vs organics).

As for other affected grenade types, Gas Grenades also suffered a radius reduction. I think the main point was to make them not quite so much replacements to the baseline frag/plasma as utility/alternative options. You can pick one guy and ruin his day, or you can soften up a bunch of enemies at once. It really depends on what the situation calls for.

[OhGod]

I forget if the mag-tier one ups the radius even more.

Pretty sure it does. And the bomb variant another +1, and volatile a further +1. Should make them pretty darn good late game, just a shame their utility is so limited early game. I figured the radius would be the same across all types, just differing in target damage, shred, and environment damage, to avoid any one being the 'go to'.

If I had been asked what I'd like to see out of a grenadier, then a moderate damage (high in grenade terms, but still moderate compared to what other soldiers can put out in a turn) single target attack would not have been anywhere on the list! That said, I hear your support for them, and shall certainly take one (not like I can afford more!) on the HQ mission tomorrow, and hopefully get some good use out of it. As a bonus, this way, if I squad wipe I can blame it on your bad grenade choice!

[sambezi]

Wow that's really disappointing... why would you ever make a FIRE grenade a single tile nuke?

First, why would they ever deal more front damage than EXPLOSIVE grenades, in basically every game ever, fire is an over time effect. And why would a grenade be a 1x1? What's next a squadsight shotgun? Greandes are meant to be AoE, I think a single tile nuke is the last thing anyone would think of when starting an incendiary grenade project...

Why not make it so it: Normal wide area like any grenade, has low explosion damage, spreads fire causing damage over time and forcing enemies to relocate and blocks paths if used correctly due to the risk of catching fire if walking through the blast zone and maybe has a low chance of panic.

[Zarnak]

"Bob.... why are you trying to put that Molotov cocktail in the grenade launcher?"

[trihero]

Most of the ammo IS nerfed in comparison to vanilla.

AP rounds pierce 2 armor, down from 5
Talon Rounds is +10 crit, down from +20 crit
Tracer Rounds is +5 aim, down from +10 aim
Bluescreen Rounds is +3 dmg, down from +5 dmg

(incidentally high ground is only +10 aim, not +20)

I think venom/dragon do what they used to do, but they require corpses to build.

[Arcalane]

Wow that's really disappointing... why would you ever make a FIRE grenade a single tile nuke?

First, why would they ever deal more front damage than EXPLOSIVE grenades, in basically every game ever, fire is an over time effect. And why would a grenade be a 1x1? What's next a squadsight shotgun? Greandes are meant to be AoE, I think a single tile nuke is the last thing anyone would think of when starting an incendiary grenade project...

Why not make it so it: Normal wide area like any grenade, has low explosion damage, spreads fire causing damage over time and forcing enemies to relocate and blocks paths if used correctly due to the risk of catching fire if walking through the blast zone and maybe has a low chance of panic.

I believe it's because the Gas and Acid grenades are now the 'low damage, DoT-focus' options.

Each kind of has its own... quirks?

• Frag and Plasma grenades do straight-up damage over a reasonable AoE with falloff, unless perks happen.
• Flashbangs reduce aim + mobility and lockdown abilities over a fairly wide radius.
• Gas grenades do poison, which reduces mobility but doesn't lock down abilities. No/minimal falloff, radius slightly better than frag/plas. Ignores armour.
• Incendiary has a lot of up-front damage and locks down ability use, but tight radius.
• Acid also has a very tight radius but leaves those acid patches and absolutely melts armour (Mk1 is shred 3, Mk2 is shred 4!).
• EMP/Bluescreen wrecks mech units and has an AoE on par with frag/plasma. Also ignores armour.
• Proximity Mines are proximity mines. Not much change here.

Looking at them, it's obvious to me that they tried to give each grenade a bit more of a niche instead of making frag/plasma more or less redundant the moment the alternatives came out.

~~

Most of the ammo IS nerfed in comparison to vanilla.

AP rounds pierce 2 armor, down from 5

Let's face it though, how often was Pierce 5 truly needed? I can't think of a single enemy that had more than about 2-3 armour unless Sectopods get to something crazy on Legend or something.

Besides, by the time armour levels start getting nuts, you should also have plenty of sources of Shred too.

[Sentenryu]

It's a very good "delete this enemy now" button.

"Trivialize this ruler, NOW."

Let's face it though, how often was Pierce 5 truly needed? I can't think of a single enemy that had more than about 2-3 armour unless Sectopods get to something crazy on Legend or something.

Gatekeepers had 7 armor, sectopods had 6 armor, The Archon King had 5. Avatars and Andromedons had "only" 4

[Arcalane]

Let's face it though, how often was Pierce 5 truly needed? I can't think of a single enemy that had more than about 2-3 armour unless Sectopods get to something crazy on Legend or something.

Gatekeepers had 7 armor, sectopods had 6 armor, The Archon King had 5. Avatars and Andromedons had "only" 4

Note the following line;

"Besides, by the time armour levels start getting nuts, you should also have plenty of sources of Shred too."

If you're not hitting those assholes with shred, and instead relying solely on AP ammo, that's your own damn fault. It's like being the guy who insists on shooting a target in full cover and complaining when a 23% chance shot misses, instead of trying to use grenades to bust it down, or flanking to root them out.

[moroniccinamun]

For the record, I'm pretty sure the +grenade damage perks mention in their little help button (the "?" on the ability select screen) that it does apply to DoT.

[brunodema]

At a first moment I also thought that fire grenades were overnerfed, but just think: if they had the same radius as a frag grenade, you would just shutdown an entire pod for 2-3 turns. They would literally wait for you to kill them. Now think having a full combat grenadier build, with at least 3-4 more of these grenades in your loadout. I really liked these changes to incendiary grenades personally...

[sambezi]

Wow that's really disappointing... why would you ever make a FIRE grenade a single tile nuke?

First, why would they ever deal more front damage than EXPLOSIVE grenades, in basically every game ever, fire is an over time effect. And why would a grenade be a 1x1? What's next a squadsight shotgun? Greandes are meant to be AoE, I think a single tile nuke is the last thing anyone would think of when starting an incendiary grenade project...

Why not make it so it: Normal wide area like any grenade, has low explosion damage, spreads fire causing damage over time and forcing enemies to relocate and blocks paths if used correctly due to the risk of catching fire if walking through the blast zone and maybe has a low chance of panic.

I believe it's because the Gas and Acid grenades are now the 'low damage, DoT-focus' options.

Each kind of has its own... quirks?

• Frag and Plasma grenades do straight-up damage over a reasonable AoE with falloff, unless perks happen.
• Flashbangs reduce aim + mobility and lockdown abilities over a fairly wide radius.
• Gas grenades do poison, which reduces mobility but doesn't lock down abilities. No/minimal falloff, radius slightly better than frag/plas. Ignores armour.
• Incendiary has a lot of up-front damage and locks down ability use, but tight radius.
• Acid also has a very tight radius but leaves those acid patches and absolutely melts armour (Mk1 is shred 3, Mk2 is shred 4!).
• EMP/Bluescreen wrecks mech units and has an AoE on par with frag/plasma. Also ignores armour.
• Proximity Mines are proximity mines. Not much change here.

Looking at them, it's obvious to me that they tried to give each grenade a bit more of a niche instead of making frag/plasma more or less redundant the moment the alternatives came out.

~~

Most of the ammo IS nerfed in comparison to vanilla.

AP rounds pierce 2 armor, down from 5

Let's face it though, how often was Pierce 5 truly needed? I can't think of a single enemy that had more than about 2-3 armour unless Sectopods get to something crazy on Legend or something.

Besides, by the time armour levels start getting nuts, you should also have plenty of sources of Shred too.

I think so as well, I just don't like it I'd say. The grenades costs are already a massive sink at least as far as I've gotten in a campaign and it's about a core per grenade it's not like you will start spamming grenades ftw anymore that you would before. Hell I don't even think the suggested alternative to this fire grenade is even going to be stronger than the 1x1 tile nuke. It just seems rather unsatisfying and an odd choice to make a single target grenade. I'd be equally underwhlemed if they made a single target rocket launcher or a sharpshooter shotgun.

[Devon_v]

Considering my vanilla strat was to find all the pods and then saturate the area with fire, acid, and gas, causing massive debuffs and DoT over a huge area, the changes seem warranted. Bear in mind that grenades never miss and don't strictly require LoS.

The war crimes grenades were insanely OP.

[ScorpZero]

Go to XCOM 2\XComGame\Mods\LW_Overhaul\Config, open XComGameData_WeaponData.ini and find FireGrenade_Radius = 1 / AcidGrenade_Radius = 1, change it to whatever value you wish.

And then stop care about people who are trying to convince you that highly explosive combat material of mass destruction should has only one radius because some kind of illusive view of balance. This game is about killing aliens in masses, not giving them any chance to survive!

[sambezi]

Go to XCOM 2\XComGame\Mods\LW_Overhaul\Config, open XComGameData_WeaponData.ini and find FireGrenade_Radius = 1 / AcidGrenade_Radius = 1, change it to whatever value you wish.

And then stop care about people who are trying to convince you that highly explosive combat material of mass destruction should has only one radius because some kind of illusive view of balance. This game is about killing aliens in masses, not giving them any chance to survive!

Thanks for that! Now If I want to lower the upfront damage a little, I see that both FireGrenadeM1 and M2 have the same base damage value as 6, is that the one I would have to lower? I am wondering since it would be a bit odd for both grenades to have the same damage assuming M2 is some kind of upgrade?

[Arcalane]

Go to XCOM 2\XComGame\Mods\LW_Overhaul\Config, open XComGameData_WeaponData.ini and find FireGrenade_Radius = 1 / AcidGrenade_Radius = 1, change it to whatever value you wish.

And then stop care about people who are trying to convince you that highly explosive combat material of mass destruction should has only one radius because some kind of illusive view of balance. This game is about killing aliens in masses, not giving them any chance to survive!

Then you might as well just give all XCOM weapons 99 damage and +99 aim.

Or, y'know, go back to vanilla. LW2 is about enhancing the guerrilla warfare angle XCOM2 promised.

I mean, don't get me wrong, do whatever makes you happy - but I feel like you're completely missing the core concepts of LW2 here. Vanilla does the whole 'big damn heroes saving the world' thing way better.

[johnnylump]

Go to XCOM 2\XComGame\Mods\LW_Overhaul\Config, open XComGameData_WeaponData.ini and find FireGrenade_Radius = 1 / AcidGrenade_Radius = 1, change it to whatever value you wish.

And then stop care about people who are trying to convince you that highly explosive combat material of mass destruction should has only one radius because some kind of illusive view of balance. This game is about killing aliens in masses, not giving them any chance to survive!

Thanks for that! Now If I want to lower the upfront damage a little, I see that both FireGrenadeM1 and M2 have the same base damage value as 6, is that the one I would have to lower? I am wondering since it would be a bit odd for both grenades to have the same damage assuming M2 is some kind of upgrade?

Feel free to mod to heart's content -- we've got a subforum to help with that, although I haven't put a lot in it yet. We just ask you don't give us balance feedback on the mod if you've changed a bunch of things ... Yes, the base damage value is what you'd want to change to do what you're after.

So the big reason it has one tile is because the AOE bonuses the grenade launchers give it make it OP in our view. The poster above got it right that we tried to find niches for all the grenades, so fire went high damage, low AOE along its damage-over-time and debilitating effect.