Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

mustangdood
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Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by mustangdood » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:58 pm

A cutscene pops up, and then the game suddenly ends in defeat. You iterate through the stats screens, and are then returned to the main menu.

Super not cool!

I'm pretty confident this is a bug, and isn't supposed to happen. I have *barely* skipped any optional missions, and only failed maybe 2 missions. I have no idea what data points triggered this, but god damn.

Any help to fix this would be appreciated.

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johnnylump
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by johnnylump » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:48 pm

As stated in other threads on this, this occurs because you didn't fulfill ingame objectives soon enough. So XCOM never learned about Avatar and the project finished and humanity lost.

ShockmasterFred
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by ShockmasterFred » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:31 pm

Lol, there will never be a thread in these forums that reads "Game suddenly ends in victory!"

mustangdood
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by mustangdood » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:54 pm

Game suddenly ends in poor design...

For anyone else reading this, you can edit the .ini and change the doom max counter from 20 to something more reasonable. This will circumvent this.

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johnnylump
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by johnnylump » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:51 pm

Depending on your difficulty, you had roughly 6-7 months to fulfill an objective that was presented to you on Day 1. Game isn't going to forgive that.

mustangdood
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by mustangdood » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:23 pm

johnnylump wrote:Depending on your difficulty, you had roughly 6-7 months to fulfill an objective that was presented to you on Day 1. Game isn't going to forgive that.
You can't seem to see the forest through the trees.

The issue is that you have no warning that the end is next turn. Sure, there is a list of objectives, but so what? If prioritizing other things is not allowed, where is the game telling me this? There is nothing telling you to complete XYZ before a specific date or time, because if you don't the game is over. Super bad design.

Manifest
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by Manifest » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:21 pm

mustangdood wrote:
johnnylump wrote:Depending on your difficulty, you had roughly 6-7 months to fulfill an objective that was presented to you on Day 1. Game isn't going to forgive that.
You can't seem to see the forest through the trees.

The issue is that you have no warning that the end is next turn. Sure, there is a list of objectives, but so what? If prioritizing other things is not allowed, where is the game telling me this? There is nothing telling you to complete XYZ before a specific date or time, because if you don't the game is over. Super bad design.
Have you not played Vanilla or something? The reason that they don't explicitly point it out is because you should already know about the game over condition. How did you think you were supposed to fail?

mustangdood
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by mustangdood » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:40 pm

Manifest wrote:
mustangdood wrote:
johnnylump wrote:Depending on your difficulty, you had roughly 6-7 months to fulfill an objective that was presented to you on Day 1. Game isn't going to forgive that.
You can't seem to see the forest through the trees.

The issue is that you have no warning that the end is next turn. Sure, there is a list of objectives, but so what? If prioritizing other things is not allowed, where is the game telling me this? There is nothing telling you to complete XYZ before a specific date or time, because if you don't the game is over. Super bad design.
Have you not played Vanilla or something? The reason that they don't explicitly point it out is because you should already know about the game over condition. How did you think you were supposed to fail?
In the Vanilla game, there is a progress bar prominently displayed, urging you down a certain path. Easy to understand.

Also, comparing this to Vanilla is meaningless; apples to oranges.

And as far as good game design goes, you never assume the user intuitively knows anything.

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Postmaster
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by Postmaster » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:56 pm

Sounds like you should be playing on rookie difficulty.

LordYanaek
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by LordYanaek » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:17 pm

mustangdood wrote: In the Vanilla game, there is a progress bar prominently displayed, urging you down a certain path. Easy to understand.
That bar will show up as soon as you liberate your first region which should be something that goes naturally if you are actively trying to build up your resistance. The big scheme will uncover organically as a side effect of you messing with Advent operations rather than be forced on you. This feels much more natural to me, but some players prefer straight and obvious exclamation marks above every buried chest.

Now, no offense but i think you should either learn to play Long War rather than try to play vanilla XCom or abandon the mod altogether, else you will just accumulate frustrations. As i said in another thread, this mod is not for everyone because the definition of fun and balanced is anything but objective. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong if you don't like it. Just realize it's not the game you want and move on.

If what you want is XCom2 with more soldier classes and more diversity in aliens, play with Better Advent mod and any combination of custom classes mods, even the Long War classes if you like them, there isn't much difference between the stand alone classes and those in LW2.

On the other hand, if you want to learn the basics of how to play Long War 2, the strategy and Long War 201 subs have useful information.

GamingCthulhu
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by GamingCthulhu » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:20 pm

Actually comparing LW2 to Vanillia isn't meaningless as it is still the same game with some mechanical changes. LW2 is an overhaul mod of Xcom2. Avatar Project, Squad building, combat, research and most underlying systems are still built on the same as XCom 2 as such it is the same game. In fact to assume someone is going to be going straight in to LW2 without having ever played XCom 2 is a bit silly.

The best thing about Long War 2 in my mind is the fact that it treats the game more like a proper resistance movement. You don't know whats going on in places where you haven't spent time building up your network. If you aren't spreading your network and liberating regions which are the basic goals you are tasked to pursue right away then you will lose.

My biggest complaint with the base game is it never really felt like you were part of a resistance. You never got to really make choices on where you operated or had to work to really find out what was going on. Everything was directly handed to you every step of the way. This is fine for providing a guided experience but once that is over then what? Thats what mods like Long War 2 are for and it has been by far one of my favorite experiences.

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8wayz
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by 8wayz » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:36 pm

The Doom counter is still there, you just need to work a bit to be able to see it. Like noted above, once you liberate the first region, it will become available. If you haven't liberated any regions and have played at least 6 months in-game, something is not quite right there. :)

If you want to complain about design decisions, please note that some of the connections between different regions are random, so you might be forced to go the long way if the Blacksite appears on the other side of the globe.

mustangdood
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by mustangdood » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:04 pm

8wayz wrote:The Doom counter is still there, you just need to work a bit to be able to see it. Like noted above, once you liberate the first region, it will become available. If you haven't liberated any regions and have played at least 6 months in-game, something is not quite right there. :)

If you want to complain about design decisions, please note that some of the connections between different regions are random, so you might be forced to go the long way if the Blacksite appears on the other side of the globe.
It's good advice, and I'm aware the doom counter is there. Having said that, the original point stands. The player can easily get into a situation where there is nothing telling him to complete objectives in any order, or under any deadline, and then the game simply ends. It's terrible design. The silly remarks people are making don't change that fact.

As far as total conversion mods it's 90% there. Balance changes are expected, but these kind of issues are something else. It's easily fixed with a few .ini tweaks that any end user can do themselves, but that shouldn't deter the mod team from fixing the few critical issues that exist.

Daergar
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by Daergar » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:39 pm

One simple question from me; is the doom counter/tracker/whatever accurate?

I'm pushing as hard as I can (only veteran, learning campaign) and so far it's going very well, tracker stands on two with one instant bar dark event countered. Skull-jack ready to be made, one region liberated, two others underway.

Early days still, hence the question if something will magically slap me in face or if I can rely on the counter to keep me abreast of the end?

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johnnylump
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by johnnylump » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:41 pm

Once you've revealed the counter, it's accurate.

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xwynns
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by xwynns » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:59 pm

8wayz wrote:If you want to complain about design decisions, please note that some of the connections between different regions are random, so you might be forced to go the long way if the Blacksite appears on the other side of the globe.
That's not true anymore, there are at least 3 connections out of every region and most of them have 4 (though the game won't always assign all of them). There shouldn't ever only be a 'long way' to the Blacksite in LW2.

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Arcalane
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by Arcalane » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:15 am

xwynns wrote:
8wayz wrote:If you want to complain about design decisions, please note that some of the connections between different regions are random, so you might be forced to go the long way if the Blacksite appears on the other side of the globe.
That's not true anymore, there are at least 3 connections out of every region and most of them have 4 (though the game won't always assign all of them). There shouldn't ever only be a 'long way' to the Blacksite in LW2.
I started in West Africa and my Blacksite spawned in Australia. It was 3 jumps whether I went east or west. And both of them had terrible region bonuses. :?

Sometimes the RNG just screws you.

ORIONOX
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by ORIONOX » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:39 am

mustangdood wrote: The player can easily get into a situation where there is nothing telling him to complete objectives in any order, or under any deadline, and then the game simply ends. It's terrible design. The silly remarks people are making don't change that fact.

As far as total conversion mods it's 90% there. Balance changes are expected, but these kind of issues are something else. It's easily fixed with a few .ini tweaks that any end user can do themselves, but that shouldn't deter the mod team from fixing the few critical issues that exist.
From day 1 you have something telling you to find a lead... it's your fault for ignoring it. Also your .ini tweaks just make the game MUCH easier, they don't actually solve the issue you're having, which is not being able to see the progress bar. A better solution in my opinion would be to change what the objective says to "find a lead before too much time passes" or "find a lead before time runs out" or "Aliens are working on something big, we better find a lead before they finish it."

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xwynns
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by xwynns » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:41 am

8wayz wrote:It was 3 jumps whether I went east or west. And both of them had terrible region bonuses. :?
Oh, 3 jumps isn't too bad imo. I thought you meant the 6 jumps you might have to go with the vanilla connections sometimes. That was really bad.

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8wayz
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by 8wayz » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:12 am

Hey Xwyns,

I started in India and the Blacksite is currently in Chile. As far as I can see there is no direct connection between Australia and Chile in my campaign, so I will have to pass through 3 regions, which is bad, but workable.

What I am pointing out is that the available connections are still randomized, but the Blacksite seems to follow a certain rule to be at least X regions away from your starting one.

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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by nightwyrm » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:11 pm

Arcalane wrote:
xwynns wrote:
8wayz wrote:If you want to complain about design decisions, please note that some of the connections between different regions are random, so you might be forced to go the long way if the Blacksite appears on the other side of the globe.
That's not true anymore, there are at least 3 connections out of every region and most of them have 4 (though the game won't always assign all of them). There shouldn't ever only be a 'long way' to the Blacksite in LW2.
I started in West Africa and my Blacksite spawned in Australia. It was 3 jumps whether I went east or west. And both of them had terrible region bonuses. :?

Sometimes the RNG just screws you.
I started in South Africa and my Blacksite is in New Arctic. :lol:

Severian
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by Severian » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:37 pm

8wayz wrote:The Doom counter is still there, you just need to work a bit to be able to see it. Like noted above, once you liberate the first region, it will become available. If you haven't liberated any regions and have played at least 6 months in-game, something is not quite right there. :)
To be fair to the OP, I think there may be a bug of some kind with liberation missions. Or maybe there should be a suspension of random setting of mission objectives after a set time, to force you into a liberation mission.

In my game, I am quite a few months in (with laser weapons, predator armour and 6 regions contacted) but still have not liberated a region. I have completed the "find a lead" mission (in the first month I think) but since then I have only had one mission fairly early on whose objective contained the word "liberation" and that had only a 1 day expiry time so was undoable (I didn't try). Since then, nothing.

I suspect I am going to get the game failure cutscene soon, but I can't do anything about it.

mattprice516
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by mattprice516 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:45 pm

Blacksite is always as far away as possible - which both provides some consistency to the game (can balance avatar timer around it) and keeps it from being over too quickly. :)

The additional links added in LW2 keep that from being insanely far though - I've usually had it within 3 or 4 by the time I can see it.

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8wayz
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by 8wayz » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:15 pm

@Severian

To be fair, if you contact more than 2 regions, you can put most rebels on supply/recruiting/ hiding, avoiding any and all Intel in the regions you do not want to operate in for the moment.

Thus more missions will be generated in the region you want to liberate and you will see more liberation missions.

In mid June I will attack my first HQ, so the long promenade to the Blacksite will start soon. :)

@mattprice516

That is a bit counter-productive, like I pointed out above. Links between regions are randomized, while the distance between the Blacksite and your starting region follows a strict algorithm.

You might very well end up in a situation where you have to traverse more than 3 regions just to get to the Blacksite, and this is generated at the start of a campaign.

Severian
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Re: Game Suddenly Ends in Defeat

Post by Severian » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 pm

8wayz wrote:@Severian

To be fair, if you contact more than 2 regions, you can put most rebels on supply/recruiting/ hiding, avoiding any and all Intel in the regions you do not want to operate in for the moment.

Thus more missions will be generated in the region you want to liberate and you will see more liberation missions.
Why would this make a difference? Logically, the chance of getting a suitable liberation mission in a region is independent of the intel in the other regions. So why would reducing the intel in the other regions increase my chance of getting a liberation mission in the region I want? Or am I misunderstanding the way that the mechanics work? Are you suggesting that my activity in the other regions is attracting Advent away from the region I want to liberate and thereby reducing the chance of a liberation mission?

In other words, is the chance of getting a liberation mission increased by the amount advent activity in a region? If so, this could be why i haven't got one. I have been deliberately spreading out my activity to keep Advent's attention from being focussed in one place (so I have seen nothing beyond Mutons yet).

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