Dark Events

[Sylvester]

I have 21 Dark Events currently ongoing at the very start of September (13 DEs back around May & June), 3 more oncoming, and only 4-5 of which I ever had a chance to prevent thanks to RNG. This is completely unfair and not all of them are "Tactical Upgrades", the aliens are just getting overpowered for the tech I can even field. So they never go away? I can't do anything about this? They have every conceivable upgrade and are still getting more.

Moreso, the constant Avatar Breakthroughs I never got a chance to deal with caused me to only be 3 pips away from the timer showing up. This is on Legend difficulty. Why are these happening so fast and where did the balance go? Is my campaign just washed now? I contacted only 2 other regions in the beginning, I had relays, etc. I decided to put rebels all on hiding until I liberated my first area but that doesn't even affect the 'Advent Strength' despite the inference.

[mattprice516]

Most tactical upgrades are intended to be permanent. The balance is there, the game is just really really hard on Legend, requiring mastery of all the mechanics. If you don't mind me asking, why are you playing your first campaign on Legend?

[mustangdood]

Permanent Dark Events is nothing short of poor and lazy design. Forcing an end to the game due to lazy mechanics is abhorrent game design.

Player skill has nothing to do with this.

Honestly, as much as this Mod adds to the game, it's things like this that really highlight how the people behind this Mod have blinders on when it comes to balancing fun with difficulty. This is a game, people are playing it for enjoyment. Enjoyment doesn't have to be a futile struggle, there is a clear balance that has escaped them.

[LordYanaek]

I contacted only 2 other regions in the beginning, I had relays, etc. I decided to put rebels all on hiding until I liberated my first area but that doesn't even affect the 'Advent Strength' despite the inference.

Hiding all your rebels is a bad idea. In the early game you should put all/most of them on Intel. Intel will help you detect missions, including counter dark even missions and missions that actually reduce advent strength. I think hiding only prevents advent strength from rising, it won't make it drop.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you playing your first campaign on Legend?

This. Play on veteran for your first campaign and you'll have a more fluid game while still getting challenge. LW is harder than base XCom in addition to adding new stuff to master so there is no shame in lowering the difficulty.

Permanent Dark Events is nothing short of poor and lazy design. Forcing an end to the game due to lazy mechanics is abhorrent game design.

You do realize there were mods with permanent DE long before LW2 don't you? And some of them were rather brutal.

Player skill has nothing to do with this.

It does, up to a point (more later) as trying to detect missions is also part of the LW2 gameplay

Honestly, as much as this Mod adds to the game, it's things like this that really highlight how the people behind this Mod have blinders on when it comes to balancing fun with difficulty. This is a game, people are playing it for enjoyment. Enjoyment doesn't have to be a futile struggle, there is a clear balance that has escaped them.

Balance and fun are ultimately subjective. What this highlights is they don't have the same idea of fun as you, and they follow their idea rather than try to please everyone and ultimately piss off everyone instead like some big companies. They never pretended the mod would be fun for everyone, this is just impossible. Also i don't want to be rude but your post isn't very constructive.

Now, all of that being said, i have my own concerns about Dark Events.
Given the random nature of the Intel job and the threat of tactical Dark Events, i think they shouldn't use the same random formula as the rest of the resistance missions because even with 6 rebels (prioritizing * and ** ones) on Intel in every haven (except obviously those with less than 6 rebels) i still see more dark events auto-complete without a mission even spawning than those i can try to counter, including 1 day to infiltrate counters.
Maybe Dark Events missions should always show even with no intel at all, but with a very short infiltration timer making them much harder, and the number of Intel jobs would help catch them earlier, but at least you wouldn't have dark events forced on you by the RNG.

[mustangdood]

Permanent Dark Events is nothing short of poor and lazy design. Forcing an end to the game due to lazy mechanics is abhorrent game design.

You do realize there were mods with permanent DE long before LW2 don't you? And some of them were rather brutal.

This is the weakest argument you could ever make. Someone else did it, so that makes it a good idea? That's an amazing lack of common sense.

Not only is that a ridiculous argument, but if you are saying that is the Mod team's design philosophy is, then once again it's the laziest possible design... stealing someone else's bad idea.

[Zyrrashijn]

The tactical dark events mirror the advancements Aliens got over time in LW1 and there was little you could do against that, then. It's not new, it has always been a key feature of the grand design. At least it's transparent this time around.

[MacroNova]

Ugh, what is with people playing on legend and then complaining that the game is too hard! The excuse that it's just "bad design" is pretty transparent too...

As Zyrrashijn said, Dark Events are the new way that the aliens get upgraded perks. We had Navigators and Pod Leaders in Long War 1 with some mean perks (Covering Fire and CCS Floaters, Reactive Targeting Sensors on Mechtoids, etc). Now the aliens get these upgrades through Dark Events that we sometimes have a chance of stopping. No surprise: Dark Events are far more common and punishing on higher difficulties!

My issue with Dark Events has to do with being able to tell which aliens got which abilities in the tactical layer. I think there is an F1 mod but I really think similar functionality should be in the base LW2 mod.

[brunodema]

Maybe the order that some DE's take place can be troubling (like in my case, an UFO Hunt on May/June was brutal and cost me 10 soldiers), but keeping DE's permanent is a nice way to keep you from steamrolling the AI in mid/end game, like in LW1 for instance. If you can power-up your soldiers forever, why not the aliens? Adapt your strategies and focus on countering the DE's that are occuring and planning on how will you deal with the upcoming DE's that you can't prevent. This is just another mechanic that people wasn't prepared for and now need to learn how to deal with it.

[mustangdood]

Maybe the order that some DE's take place can be troubling (like in my case, an UFO Hunt on May/June was brutal and cost me 10 soldiers), but keeping DE's permanent is a nice way to keep you from steamrolling the AI in mid/end game, like in LW1 for instance. If you can power-up your soldiers forever, why not the aliens? Adapt your strategies and focus on countering the DE's that are occuring and planning on how will you deal with the upcoming DE's that you can't prevent. This is just another mechanic that people wasn't prepared for and now need to learn how to deal with it.

I don't see any scalability. I'm still in very early game, and the stack up of Dark Events compounded with everything else is too severe. Am I playing a Long War, or an impossible war? Being pressured into short and dangerous missions to counter crappy game mechanics feels more like a short war to me.

The way this "system" is setup is flawed. If it's a core design feature, at minimum it needs to be re-worked with scalability for game stages. I still disagree with events having a permanent duration. It would make more sense to have the duration short if countered, or long if not.

[LordYanaek]

Permanent Dark Events is nothing short of poor and lazy design. Forcing an end to the game due to lazy mechanics is abhorrent game design.

You do realize there were mods with permanent DE long before LW2 don't you? And some of them were rather brutal.

This is the weakest argument you could ever make. Someone else did it, so that makes it a good idea? That's an amazing lack of common sense.

Not only is that a ridiculous argument, but if you are saying that is the Mod team's design philosophy is, then once again it's the laziest possible design... stealing someone else's bad idea.

That those mods already existed and had good ratings on steam shows that at least some people find this idea good. That was my point. Nothing less, nothing more.

As Zyrrashijn said, Dark Events are the new way that the aliens get upgraded perks. We had Navigators and Pod Leaders in Long War 1 with some mean perks (Covering Fire and CCS Floaters, Reactive Targeting Sensors on Mechtoids, etc). Now the aliens get these upgrades through Dark Events that we sometimes have a chance of stopping.

Well, yes and no. There are some key differences here.
First, XCom2 already implements aliens (advent) progression with advanced and then elite versions of the basic troop showing up where the basic XCom1 sectoid never became stronger in the base game.
Then, the navigator and pod leaders were singular enemies, they required different strategies (like get rid of that crysalid leader ASAP so your Close Combat Specialist troops can protect you) while the DE improve every enemy and if you stack too much of them too quickly, you can end up with impossible tactical missions. You could also end up with impossible missions in LW1 if you didn't improve your gear to keep up with the aliens, but you more or less knew you needed laser by month X (don't really remember) or some less common option.

Now, you can keep up for a long time if you are lucky in detecting the DE, or end up with very strong enemies very early if you never detect the DE missions.
I'm not against those dark events, but i'd like the team to consider a different algorithm for spawning the missions, one that actually allows you to try and counter them, unless they are actually supposed to be impossible to counter and just a justification to increasing power. As it stands now, i've yet to see a mission to counter one of those tactical dark events, and this is with 6 intel jobs in my 3 main havens (smaller ones have all but one rebel on intel and the last one on recruit).

[JulianSkies]

I don't remember where exactly but it was in those forums I saw it.
Most of the tactical DEs are not in fact supposed to be countered, they're a granular growth to go along with the harder tiering up of enemies.
They also doubt apply to all enemies! They are just a chance to apply to each enemy but if you have enough of them every enemy will Wind up buffed somehow

[Sair]

I'm having a hard time with Dark Events myself and its really destroying my enjoyment. Less than 5 months in and my Dark Events looked like this:

http://imgur.com/a/WLAc2

+2 bonus health, +1 damage, +1 armor/resistance to explosions, defensive increases and a bunch of other annoying talents. I would fire a grenade into a troop column of 7-8 advent and be lucky if i did enough damage to get them back to their original health values. It started out frustrating but quickly became unbearable as the advanced versions started churning out with their increased stats even more increased along with 3 more dark events every month that i had no reliable way of countering. I ended up restarting only to quickly run into another series of Dark Events similar to what i ran into before.

It is just a very un-enjoyable mechanic for me to deal with right now, especially when you add in the random nature of it all.

[mustangdood]

I'm having a hard time with Dark Events myself and its really destroying my enjoyment. Less than 5 months in and my Dark Events looked like this:

http://imgur.com/a/WLAc2

+2 bonus health, +1 damage, +1 armor/resistance to explosions, defensive increases and a bunch of other annoying talents. I would fire a grenade into a troop column of 7-8 advent and be lucky if i did enough damage to get them back to their original health values. It started out frustrating but quickly became unbearable as the advanced versions started churning out with their increased stats even more increased along with 3 more dark events every month that i had no reliable way of countering. I ended up restarting only to quickly run into another series of Dark Events similar to what i ran into before.

It is just a very un-enjoyable mechanic for me to deal with right now, especially when you add in the random nature of it all.

I'm sure the majority of users would agree with you. But like many forums, the ride-or-die fan boys posting here aren't big on common sense.

If you search the forums, you will find a post that shows you how to adjust the dark events so the duration is no longer 999.

[Rempsv]

This is my second attempt at playing long war 2 after the patch and i have never seen a mission with anything related to dark events.
I really dislike the permanent dark events aswell, especially since its almost impossible to do anything about them.
If you cannot find any missions that solve those events tactical or the other ones, how are you suppose to do anything about them, from the start i have put every rebel on intel(13 units) and never got any mission and i am playing on veteran only.
Its unfortunately not a fun design imo.

[Valaska]

I'm having a hard time with Dark Events myself and its really destroying my enjoyment. Less than 5 months in and my Dark Events looked like this:

http://imgur.com/a/WLAc2

+2 bonus health, +1 damage, +1 armor/resistance to explosions, defensive increases and a bunch of other annoying talents. I would fire a grenade into a troop column of 7-8 advent and be lucky if i did enough damage to get them back to their original health values. It started out frustrating but quickly became unbearable as the advanced versions started churning out with their increased stats even more increased along with 3 more dark events every month that i had no reliable way of countering. I ended up restarting only to quickly run into another series of Dark Events similar to what i ran into before.

It is just a very un-enjoyable mechanic for me to deal with right now, especially when you add in the random nature of it all.

I'm sure the majority of users would agree with you. But like many forums, the ride-or-die fan boys posting here aren't big on common sense.

If you search the forums, you will find a post that shows you how to adjust the dark events so the duration is no longer 999.

Agreed, permanent dark events don't add difficulty, they just eventually scale the game to the point of impossibility. I just killed an Alien Ruler faster than I could kill a gosh damn advent trooper just because I want an ACTUAL long war mod, not a fricken rush to beat the game in 8 months mod. Just like LW1 there should have been a cap because there's only so good you can make XCOM. Unlimited improvements is, like the people said above, just awful lazy design to make the game frustrating, not difficult.

Honestly, whats the point of a long war mod that forces you to rush lol. For all there is to love of this mod, its just silly to have permanent and constant upgrades to advent etc.

[dstar3k]

Permanent Dark Events is nothing short of poor and lazy design. Forcing an end to the game due to lazy mechanics is abhorrent game design.

You, sir, are an idiot. "I disagree with this design choice" does not, in any way, equal "This is poor and lazy design".

You want people to listen to your opinions on what exactly is good design? Put your money where your mouth is, and make a mod that's as popular as the original Long War. Otherwise, try to be respectful of the people who actually make things rather than just whine about them.

Now, all of that being said, i have my own concerns about Dark Events.
Given the random nature of the Intel job and the threat of tactical Dark Events, i think they shouldn't use the same random formula as the rest of the resistance missions because even with 6 rebels (prioritizing * and ** ones) on Intel in every haven (except obviously those with less than 6 rebels) i still see more dark events auto-complete without a mission even spawning than those i can try to counter, including 1 day to infiltrate counters.
Maybe Dark Events missions should always show even with no intel at all, but with a very short infiltration timer making them much harder, and the number of Intel jobs would help catch them earlier, but at least you wouldn't have dark events forced on you by the RNG.

Actually, I'd prefer them to have an accumulating detection chance which reaches 100% at some suitably short notice... so you _can_ see them in time to have decent infiltration, but you're guaranteed to have a chance to stop them even if you have to go in at 5% infiltration.

[mustangdood]

Permanent Dark Events is nothing short of poor and lazy design. Forcing an end to the game due to lazy mechanics is abhorrent game design.

You, sir, are an idiot. "I disagree with this design choice" does not, in any way, equal "This is poor and lazy design".

You want people to listen to your opinions on what exactly is good design? Put your money where your mouth is, and make a mod that's as popular as the original Long War. Otherwise, try to be respectful of the people who actually make things rather than just whine about them.

Now, all of that being said, i have my own concerns about Dark Events.
Given the random nature of the Intel job and the threat of tactical Dark Events, i think they shouldn't use the same random formula as the rest of the resistance missions because even with 6 rebels (prioritizing * and ** ones) on Intel in every haven (except obviously those with less than 6 rebels) i still see more dark events auto-complete without a mission even spawning than those i can try to counter, including 1 day to infiltrate counters.
Maybe Dark Events missions should always show even with no intel at all, but with a very short infiltration timer making them much harder, and the number of Intel jobs would help catch them earlier, but at least you wouldn't have dark events forced on you by the RNG.

Actually, I'd prefer them to have an accumulating detection chance which reaches 100% at some suitably short notice... so you _can_ see them in time to have decent infiltration, but you're guaranteed to have a chance to stop them even if you have to go in at 5% infiltration.

Shhhhh, the adults are talking.

[mustangdood]

Agreed, permanent dark events don't add difficulty, they just eventually scale the game to the point of impossibility. I just killed an Alien Ruler faster than I could kill a gosh damn advent trooper just because I want an ACTUAL long war mod, not a fricken rush to beat the game in 8 months mod. Just like LW1 there should have been a cap because there's only so good you can make XCOM. Unlimited improvements is, like the people said above, just awful lazy design to make the game frustrating, not difficult.

Honestly, whats the point of a long war mod that forces you to rush lol. For all there is to love of this mod, its just silly to have permanent and constant upgrades to advent etc.

Exactly.

[Valaska]

I just want to know if there is a way to introduce a cap that while stops the cap, is competitive with beam.

[brunodema]

In vanilla there was an .ini option that limited the number of simultaneous active dark events per month. There must be still an option (or way) to regulate that in LW2. Ask the devs about it and change it, no need to keep the salt flowing in the topic.

[Valaska]

In vanilla there was an .ini option that limited the number of simultaneous active dark events per month. There must be still an option (or way) to regulate that in LW2. Ask the devs about it and change it, no need to keep the salt flowing in the topic.

Yeh, the devs post here so I am hoping on a response to some form of cap to the maximum HP given by dark events in a slider. It sounds like limiting simultaneous dark events per month wouldn't cap the permanent increases to something competitive with top tier XCOM agents.

[Sair]

In vanilla there was an .ini option that limited the number of simultaneous active dark events per month. There must be still an option (or way) to regulate that in LW2. Ask the devs about it and change it, no need to keep the salt flowing in the topic.

There is an option in the Activities ini that lets you set the number of months passed that dark events start happening, in theory you could effectively turn off Dark Events that way(I haven't tested it yet) if you were so inclined by putting a high number. Or you can add a few months to give you a time cushion to build up a big enough contact network to actually counter them effectively.

There may be more/better options but i haven't found any in a rudimentary search.

[trihero]

Wait just for clarity, sorry if it was said somewhere and I missed it: which dark events are permanent? All of them? Just the tactical ones? Or are things like alien conditioning permanent as well o.O

[dimvision]

I'm having a hard time with Dark Events myself and its really destroying my enjoyment. Less than 5 months in and my Dark Events looked like this:

http://imgur.com/a/WLAc2

+2 bonus health, +1 damage, +1 armor/resistance to explosions, defensive increases and a bunch of other annoying talents. I would fire a grenade into a troop column of 7-8 advent and be lucky if i did enough damage to get them back to their original health values. It started out frustrating but quickly became unbearable as the advanced versions started churning out with their increased stats even more increased along with 3 more dark events every month that i had no reliable way of countering. I ended up restarting only to quickly run into another series of Dark Events similar to what i ran into before.

It is just a very un-enjoyable mechanic for me to deal with right now, especially when you add in the random nature of it all.

I'm sure the majority of users would agree with you. But like many forums, the ride-or-die fan boys posting here aren't big on common sense.

If you search the forums, you will find a post that shows you how to adjust the dark events so the duration is no longer 999.

Agreed, permanent dark events don't add difficulty, they just eventually scale the game to the point of impossibility. I just killed an Alien Ruler faster than I could kill a gosh damn advent trooper just because I want an ACTUAL long war mod, not a fricken rush to beat the game in 8 months mod. Just like LW1 there should have been a cap because there's only so good you can make XCOM. Unlimited improvements is, like the people said above, just awful lazy design to make the game frustrating, not difficult.

Honestly, whats the point of a long war mod that forces you to rush lol. For all there is to love of this mod, its just silly to have permanent and constant upgrades to advent etc.

Woah, woah you mean to say that dark event's doesn't have a cap? Are you sure? So in theory we could be facing troopers with 100hp and 200 aim? I don't mind dark events but rather the random nature of it like aliens getting +5 aim on the second month, but no cap really??

[foreverdead]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =854420428

Problem solved