Just a 'bit' of feedback

[tesb]

Hello fellow commanders and a special thank you to the developers of this great mod.

I am currently still earlyish in my first campaign (4 regions contacted, 1 liberated, laser weapons, plasma grenades, first psi soldiers etc.) and i want to quickly give a bit of feedback:

1) Likes:
-I really like the multiple teams and infiltration design
-I really enjoy the prolonged campaign and resource scarcity (even 400+ supply drops are eaten up immediately)
-The ablative armour system is a very good mechanic
-The classes overall feel very well designed, with multiple viable builds
-The larger squad sizes provide good balance of strategic investment: boosting infiltration to get larger teams, making the mission easier and leveling more soldiers or save the intel an contact more regions. It is basically a sort of custom difficulty.
-The Avatar project being much less of hassle and strategic pressure than in vanilla where you are pretty much railroaded into story missions.
-More weapon tiers giving a more gradually progression


2) Class Feedback/Team compositions:
My core teams consist out of: (*planed skills that i have not tested yet)

-2 grenadiers:
--Skills: Sapper, Heavy Ordinance, Boosted Cores, Tandem Warheads, Chain Shot, Volatile Mix*, Salvo*
--Role: They provide cover destruction, alpha damage, shred, and can deal decent damage with Chain Shot. They are probably insane later with Salvo to remove cover followed by chain shot to the now uncovered target, which is also holo-targeted by the sniper
--Conclusion: They start out strong and are very helpful and keep and increase their usefulness, i could not imagine going without them, some grenades like poison also provide good control in addition to just damage (poison debuff). Their power comes with an approriate drain on your resources as you have to research and build lots of grenades which is a good balance for the overall combat power of this class.

-2 Gunners:
--Skills: Center Mass, Shredder, Iron Curtain, Formidable, Danger Zone, Saturation Fire*, Rupture*
--Role: Gunners provide Damage, have a very good alpha strike with Iron Curtain/Saturation Fire and provide good crowd control.
--Problems: Except for the first two skills i am not so sure about the talents and may respec them later. Especially the ability Cool Under Pressure (does this work with suppression?) and Traverse Fire + Killzone might be a better choice. I think demolition and combat fitness are rather weak perks in comparison to the alternatives. I think the game should also be more clear what counts as reaction fire, e.g. do the weapon upgrades that increase reaction fire accuracy also work with suppression?
--Conclusion: Great damage that carries you quite a while (center mass + the already high base damage of their weapons). Very good utility with very strong endgame perks, again i can't imagine going without them. They are also a very small drain on your economy (just get weapons)

-1 Spark:
--Skills: Iron Skin, Bulwark, Formidable, Repair, Holo Targeting, Damage Control*, Sacrifice*
--Role: With Overdrive (=semi run and gun) and their heavy weapon they act as a finisher, but overall they are tanks and damage sponges (ablative armour + lots of amour). And i can only imagine how insane they will be with Sacrifice + Smoke Grenade. I also like their ability to provide heavy cover and use it often. I am not sure if i spec into bombard instead (is it cooldown based or does it have charges? how much damage does it do? i played vanilla xcom2 without sparks)
--Problems: Their base aim seems a bit low especially if you consider that they have no weapon upgrades and pcs slots. I still am not able to upgrade their armour and weapons (they don't have a laser gun variant?) and the skills for the paladin rank seem all very weak (Channelling Field is too unreliable, Wreaking Ball seems too specialised, does Holotargeting stack with the holotargeting of the sharpshooter?). They are also a big investment resource wise and lack a lot of customization (armours, weapons, weapon upgrades). I would really like to have utility items for them like in LW1. I don't think we need tons of spark classes like the mechs in LW1, but i would welcome more diversity of course. Overall a great class, although a bit too one-dimensional and lacking item customization.

-1 Sharpshooter:
--Skills: Rapid Targeting, HighDef Holo, Phantom, Independent Tracking, Vital Point Targeting, Multitargeting*, Serial* or Alpha Mike Foxtrot*
--Role: With Phantom and all the Holotarget skills this class is the perfect scout + support from concealment. If needed he can also dish out good ranged damage to vital targets from very far away (in contrast to the shinobi). I have not tried a typical sharpshooter build, but i can imagine a team of sharpshooters (1 holo scout and rest being long range snipers) being an insane team on missions without timers and enemy reinforcements that land on your head (e.g. supply raids, base assaults). However this tactic would be a bit too cheesy for my tastes and a bit too specialized (reinforcements and timers would be no-go missions)
--Problems: Snapshot seems very weak, it makes you sniper into a medium range combatant with comparatively less utility than a gunner or ranger. The other problem is that he outshines the shinobi as a scout+support with on demand high precise ranged damage, but this is a problem with the shinobi rather than with the Sharpshooter.

The rest i mix and match as i see fit:
-1 Specialist:
--Skills: Cool under Fire, Covering Fire, Field Medic, Ever Vigilant, Sentinel, Killzone*, Full Override*
--Role: Hacker, Overwatcher and healing support. I don't find ranged healing as important (just move the injured soldier back) and i am not a big fan of charged abilities (they usually have not enough charges for more difficult missions). I could see myself using Threat Assessment as it synergizes very well with Combat Awareness from Sparks
--Problems: Similar to vanilla XCom2 i can never see myself bringing more than 1 Specialist as they severely lack offensive power. I think this could be fixed by making combat protocol and capacitor discharge cooldown based (maybe 2/5 rounds of cooldown). The healing spec seems very lacklustre (as in vanilla), i never was in a position where i wished i had taken them (except field surgeon). Their robotic crowd control has severe risks attached and is by it's nature situational (only robots) and Full Override seems like a no-brainer.

-As many as possible Psi Operatives:
--Skills: Must Have: Stasis, Domination, Null Lance; Good: Void Rift, Soul Fire, Improved Insanity
--Role: Superior Crowd Control (i can't stress enough how powerful Stasis and Domination are.) and reliable damage. I have not tested most skills as my Psi Operatives are still at a very low level, i assume their skills are more or less as in vanilla, you just don't get all of them (unlike vanilla).
--Problems: Their initial usage is very limited, they are typical late bloomers. Mind Merge seems very powerful if it would work as intended (currently does not last through the enemy turn), especially with spark+sacrifice (this should not work as you sparks don't have minds to merge with). I really like that you have to level them as any other soldier in addition to training. i would love to have multiple psi labs though.

-Ranger:
--Role: I currently only have two rangers as they both have insane AWC perks (+2 base damage). They are a very good versatile class either as more flexible gunners or insane overwatchers, depending on the spec.
--Problems: I am not a big fan of their secondary weapon (limited uses and Rangers are quite powerful at close ranges already with their default weapons anyway) and therefore assorted perks for the sawed off shotgun. personally i would rather have an item for that class preferably a combat scanner or something else that provides utility, instead of damage. To me they are a good class that is just a little bit worse than a gunners which have less damage potential, but much better utility.

-Assault:
--Problems: I only use them as contact officers in the resistance heavens as they are very good for the faceless missions. Combat wise i could see the Electroshock build being very powerful later on, but the rest seems too weak: run and gun is very situational as you are prone to trigger more pods and with the sometimes high number of enemies you seldom need high single target burst, if you have aoe abilities and crowd control (stasis, poison, flashbang, suppression etc. gives you enough crowd control to kill most of the pod and keep the dangerous enemies neutered for the next turn and is far less dangerous than run and gunning). Again the Electroshock build probably is very good if you have chain lightning, but the rest seems 'meh' compared to other classes. The problem is not the class in itself but the environment, i.e. large pods sizes.

-Shinobi
--Problems: I have 4 of them and rarely use them anymore (i only used them as scouts in the early game). Sharpshooters can scout as well (if you leveled them a bit) and provide insane support from concealment. what does the shinobi do? He basically scouts and maybe gets a kill at the end of the mission and is otherwise useless. I could see the blademaster build with Reaper being decent, but even then: melee range is dangerous, you can trigger more pods, once you use his melee he stops being a scout (looses concealment). Imho this class needs the concealment skill by default with a long cooldown or he should enter concealment automatically if he kills and there are no more visible enemies in ranger (then i would consider him as a viable alternative to a sharpshooter). I can see him as a decent class on short easy 1 to 2 soldier no-kills missions with lot's of concealment cheese, but this is not really my type of gameplay.

-Technicals:
--Problems: I have 3 of them and used them early, but to me they are outshone by grenadiers who provide reliable cover destruction. I could never make the flamethrower really work except as an alpha strike weapon from concealment and rockets are too unreliable and limited. Outside their Gauntlets abilities they seem rather mediocre. Imho the flamethrower should have a 'Wall of Flame' ability where you can use it defensively as an overwatch action which would always hit and be very powerful against melee enemies that run towards you (stun lancers, mutons etc.) It would still be limited by the charges of the flamethrower and would provide a very good option especially against stun lancers. With such an ability i would probably use this class. Personally i am fine with rocket scattering as the ability is very powerful. Overall i feel this class is rather 'meh'+ too unreliable.

-Officers:
--I personally like their abilities, however the biggest issue i have are long training times (imho should be shortened by 10-30%) and ability overload on some classes/items combinations. maybe different bars for officer/class/item abilities would be an improvement


3) Combat Gameplay Feedback:
Similar to vanilla or even more so, there is a huge emphasis on alpha damage, i.e. kill most of the enemy on contact and crowd control any survivors. e.g. i never saw an advent trooper use it's grenade launcher or missile. Or ad advent mech it's grenade, they all die on sight or get crowd controlled hard. This has some very serious downsides for me (i.e. it is just my opinion, man and others may like it):
3.1 it begs to be savescummed, a little mistake you activate another pod and you probably lost the mission and some soldiers
3.2 it induces you to use cheesy tactics
3.3 it disincentivises prolonged positional gameplay, e.g. a classic military tactic is one soldier suppressing/flash banging the enemy while the rest of the team moves up or flanks

My ideas how to fix this would be:
3.1 convert all vest and armour hit points to ablative damage and reduce wound timers by a small amount. this would make the game a bit more forgiving and allow the player to actually take at least 1 hit per mission without putting the soldier on a one month healing timer, i.e. you can take one hit per soldier and be fine (provided you keep up in armour tech and vests), two hits will send the soldier to the healing station and three hits will be death (unless the soldier is tanky with armour points/evasion). Currently one hit puts you on a long healing timer (unless you are lucky with a graze), two hits will almost kill you and three hits are death. I would also lower most shooting and aoe damage (both from player and aliens, or give implicit armour from cover like in LW1 to promote flanking), this would lead to fights lasting 1-3 turns instead of 0-1 turns.
3.2 nothing to say here except that there should be active balancing to prevent too cheesy tactics. i personally avoid cheesy gameplay and i don't want to be pushed in that direction, e.g. sharpshooter teams, constant retreat+overwatch traps etc.
3.3 this is mostly a problem of the core gameplay, i.e. pod activation in combination with clustered pods.
First i would try to fix it by adding an utility item for typical flanking/close range classes:
the Combat Scanner:
-passively shows enemy positions in large radius (just as a blip, i.e. not revealing them or making them targetable, should have small error margin of 1-3 tiles to prevent grenade/rocket abuse)
-no activation/charges required
-downsides: the soldier using this item can't be concealed (the scanner makes loud pings, think of the movie 'Aliens') and close, but unrevealed enemies will be drawn to the noise, similar to a grenade explosion)
-can be used by assaults, rangers and shinobis
Secondly i would decrease the range of all weapons as well as sight/detection range: this would make maps effectively smaller and give you more room to manoeuvre.

The basic goal is to give multiple ways to fight, e.g.
a) cover removal + ranged fights
b) crowd control (flash bangs, poison grenades, suppression) + flanking (reliable, i.e. without the constant fear of additional pod triggering)
c) much less emphasis on alpha damage, more prolonged fights and yes a bit more forgiving gameplay

There is an alternative, e.g. in the original XCom from the 90'ties i lost soldiers left and right and never safescummed because:
-soldier rank was not super important, equipment was. rookies with good equipment where still decent. in current iteration of XCom2 and LW2 soldiers derive a lot of power from their abilities which are tied to their rank.
-the strategic layer, especially the money aspect was basically broken as you could craft items for profit, i.e. you had no shortage of new recruits and soldier loss was not as hard hitting for the overall progression of the game as in the modern iteration of XCOm


3) Strategic Gameplay Feedback:
Not a lot to say here expect praise. There are some minor improvement to be made here however:
-Classification of the amount of enemies (very light, light, ...) lacks ingame description thus i often find myself alt-tabbing to see what they actually mean. Why not just provide estimated numbers instead of keywords? This would also solve the issue of Swarming missions, i.e. i only found out that 200% infiltration on swarming mission (in my case base assault) would still reduce enemy numbers, by reading the forums
-You should not be able to spend intel/infiltrate longer if you are already at extremely light
-There should be an option to automatically pause the game if a certain strength level is reached, ideally this should be set in the squad view when you choose the squad for the mission. i.e. pause game on >choose strength< activity.
-There should be a preview in the squad selection screen that shows the estimated activity level. currently you can find out by using external documents and performing a simple calculation, this would simply remove the need to alt tab and do it manually.
-I am not there yet but from what i heard is that there are some insane missions when it comes to advent retaking liberated regions or the avenger being shot down. i hope they are not as overtuned as some people say. i already found the base assault quite hard when it comes to enemy numbers and density


phew this is it for now, i hopefully will add more while i continue to explore the mod. i can't stress enough how much i like the mod, great work guys!

[tesb]

uh i just found out that holo targeting from the sniper and spark do indeed stack (both instances are shown one with a space between holo targeted the other without space)

[tekronis]

Great ideas here, but this is my absolute favorite suggestion of yours:

Imho the flamethrower should have a 'Wall of Flame' ability where you can use it defensively as an overwatch action which would always hit and be very powerful against melee enemies that run towards you (stun lancers, mutons etc.) It would still be limited by the charges of the flamethrower and would provide a very good option especially against stun lancers.

A Wall of Flame ability would be amazing.

Since the the flamethrower has limited charges, the Wall of Flame could be limited to a 1 or 2 tile radius activating whenever an enemy enters or moves in that radius. Maybe it has charges of its own, separate from the standard flamethrower charge. Or maybe it has infinite use at a range of a single tile.

Maybe the Technical should have a flamer overwatch ability that works like Killzone from vanilla X-COM 2's sharpshooter tree.

I hope that johnnylump or amineri gives this idea some consideration.