Interesting on the upcoming 1.2 notes, but I'm not touching the psi unless it gets guaranteed domination. In fact, they are nerfing the psi's potential psi offense (the psi amps give less bonus and come earlier in the tech tree) which makes domination even worse than before.
I'm also very wary of what those changes to the "tech requirements" imply. It seems to imply that you are now required to take a bunch of garbage skills in order to unlock one of the better skills. I guess it's better in the sense that you are more certain to get one of the better skills, but damn son I really don't want to learn crap like soulfire healing or better mind merging or persistence.
Psi Ops still suck?
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Yeh but that psi op won't gain any xp as they are still locked on the previous level up, it's not something you really want to doTuhalu wrote:Psi Ops are not shut down while training. Just like the vanilla game, you can send them into the field while they are training.Nekojusan wrote: Given the costs and time involved psi ops just aren't worth it, other classes are far more efficient, they can deal similar damage and aren't shut down for weeks with every promotion
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
They also don't train while infiltrating, which is a bummer.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
i really can't follow the patch changes.
for all the required time training and gaining xp on the battlefield in combination with the high cost of the psi chamber i would expect psi ops to be some super soldiers that far exceed the normal classes; however, at best (i.e. not really) they compete with them.
imho psi ops need some major rethinking
for all the required time training and gaining xp on the battlefield in combination with the high cost of the psi chamber i would expect psi ops to be some super soldiers that far exceed the normal classes; however, at best (i.e. not really) they compete with them.
imho psi ops need some major rethinking
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
At least you can still pick them while they train in the Psy Lab. A Soldier in AWC or Officier training is blocked from being picked AND IIRC if you cancel such training time is lost. When You consider carefully sending a soldier on 8-day training, u don't mind with Psy.trihero wrote:They also don't train while infiltrating, which is a bummer.
Still I find Psy Ops useful for secondary skillset, with pistol skills and some officier train they are very useful as Haven liaisons.
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LordYanaek
- Posts: 940
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Now that' a big investment for a haven advisorlaestic wrote: Still I find Psy Ops useful for secondary skillset, with pistol skills and some officier train they are very useful as Haven liaisons.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Indeed. At first I was skeptical on powering military advisors, then on a low-population Haven I had a Rendezvous mission with only 3 Rebels + Advisor versus 1 pod of 4, 1 of 3 and 2 Faceless spies. I don't know if haven spies contribute to their job effort, but I don't take the chance to let it gangrenate a region next to a liberated one. So yeah, now I invest more in military advisors.LordYanaek wrote:Now that' a big investment for a haven advisorlaestic wrote: Still I find Psy Ops useful for secondary skillset, with pistol skills and some officier train they are very useful as Haven liaisons.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
One neat thing I've taken note of, is that aside from the powers, their blank slate when it comes to regular perks means they don't have much of the power perks locked out by ability restrictions, so they can get very neat AWC combinations, so it's not entirely unusual to get some powerhouse combo.
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moroniccinamun
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:18 pm
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
That is interesting, but still too chance and time based for something already based entirely on huge chances and time investments to be even decent to really redeem them.cerebrawl wrote:One neat thing I've taken note of, is that aside from the powers, their blank slate when it comes to regular perks means they don't have much of the power perks locked out by ability restrictions, so they can get very neat AWC combinations, so it's not entirely unusual to get some powerhouse combo.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
When you step back and look at all the resources it takes to get Psi Ops up and running they feel wanting. For starters you need to secure a Sectoid corpse for the autopsy. For me I was well into my second month before I was able to get one for the R&D. Second, you need to dedicate supplies and one of only twelve facility spots to a psi lab, as well as a scientist if you want your operative to train at a decent rate. Plus the tech to open up a second pod only shows up mid way through the game. Third is the amount of time it takes to get these soldiers powered up. Not only the time in the limited space of the Labs but also the time infiltrating and fighting in the field. They also don't seem to gain combat experience if they still have a skill they need to train.
Looking at all the time, resources, and limited space required to train Psi ops, you would think they would become super soldiers in the end. Only used in the most dire of situations because of how few and how powerful they are. But that isn't what they are. Because of the RNG nature of how they level up you might end up with a soldier who is very powerful, all but worthless, or something in the middle.
Because of all of this I am staying my hand at progressing my use of these soldiers and even slowing down my play of the campaign. This is not to say I believe the people at Pavonis won't come up with a good solution to this problem. Looking at most everything else they've done with Long War 2 I'm confident they will find something that works.
Looking at all the time, resources, and limited space required to train Psi ops, you would think they would become super soldiers in the end. Only used in the most dire of situations because of how few and how powerful they are. But that isn't what they are. Because of the RNG nature of how they level up you might end up with a soldier who is very powerful, all but worthless, or something in the middle.
Because of all of this I am staying my hand at progressing my use of these soldiers and even slowing down my play of the campaign. This is not to say I believe the people at Pavonis won't come up with a good solution to this problem. Looking at most everything else they've done with Long War 2 I'm confident they will find something that works.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Personally what I did was edit the psi training times back to vanilla, they're long enough already considering they have to go on field missions to rank up in between as well. Pavonis went seriously overboard with the whole "make everything take longer" aspect for the PsiOps.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Here is a suggested reboot for the Psi Ops.
First I need to start by saying I have no idea about the formulas that are used to calculate the "To Hit" values for powers like Insanity. Currently it is to low in mid game making the % chance to hit being almost always better to just fire your main weapon. I do not know if this improves by the end game or if it does what people are seeing as a % to hit chance is at that point.
I need to point out I don't hate everything. I like the idea of slowing down training and making Psi Ops something special. But we need something of equivalent exchange.
As I'm not a coder but have free lanced as part of a table-top game dev team I'm going to express ideas in the realm of pen and paper. It goes without saying some of these suggestions might not be doable at all from a coding standpoint.
Base line To Hit or Hit Chance for Psi Ops powers should be no less than 75% for a newly trained Psi Ops soldier. Most of the powers have a 3 or more turn cool down making a 75% chance to hit the bottom hard cap feel much more fair then the current one.
Method one: The simple and quick fix.
The most boring and basic thing is to do a simple number adjustments and buff to the class abilities via damage, to hit and success for Psi offense vs will.
This is the easiest method and I personally believe the Psi Ops should be a little stronger and a competitive choice vs taking another LW2 class. Also along with the time investment and extra cost to get them in the first place needs to be taken into account.
Method two: A possible Psi evolution
Suggested passive power on all Psi Ops.
Psi Focus
For every turn a Psi Ops soldier does not use an activatable Psi power they will build one charge of Psi Focus up to a maximum of three. When Psi Ops soldier uses an activatable Psi power they will expend all their Psi Focus charges currently on that character, furthermore that Psi Ops soldier will not gain a new charge of Psi Focus on a turn an activatable Psi power is used. For each Psi Focus stored and used on a Psi power that power will be boosted.
Example: Psi Focus bonus
Psi damage attacks +1 damage per focus to a max +3
Psi to hit powers +5% to hit chance per focus to a max +15%
Psi strength + 5 per focus to a max +15
Psi shield and health + 1 health/shield per focus to a max of +3
How would this help?
At lower ranks Psi Ops suffer from having only a few powers with a significant cool down. Most of the time you are carrying the Psi Ops member of your team as they do not add much compared to the Sparks or other LW2 classes.
With this passive power it will allow you to play with your few Psi active powers at a boosted level making sure you are a contributing member of the team.
Now at high ranks you can either choose to not use Psi powers to build your charges for a tactical use of your powers or ignore it as you already have a good mix of powers that you are spamming every turn.
AWC Psi Ops only powers
This will add another level complexity and tactics that might be doable for Psi Ops.
I do not know how the AWC power are generated but I know it pulls from a list. If it is an RNG pool for all three ranks then you will need to remove a good number of the current powers so we can add some new ones. If each rank has its own pool I would suggest it goes Rank 1 AWC Psi power, Rank 2 Standard AWC power, Rank 3 AWC Psi power.
An alternate option that might make things a little cleaner is to add a 4th column to the AWC for Psi Ops being a Psi augment tree. This way it would make it easier to work with game balance being that you could only ever get 3 AWC Psi abilities.
Here is an example list of some suggested AWC Psi abilities and many will be thing we already see in game that can be renamed or tied to Psi powers.
Wicked Mind (based on Center Mass) (passive)
You do one additional point of base damage with your combat Psi abilities.
Soul Render (based on Lethal) (passive)
You do two additional point of base damage with your combat Psi abilities.
Psi Focus Master (passive)
Your Psi Focus can caps at five charges instead of three.
Mind Wipe (based on Conceal: remove Conceal from other AWC power pools for Psi Ops) (activatable)
You wipe the minds of the foes around you gaining concealment and this can be done at any location, but when done inside the detection radii of an nearby enemy the soldier will be revealed when flanked.
Inner Focus (activatable)
You reset the cool down of all your Psi powers and this ability ends your activation. 7 turn cool down
Mind over Matter (passive)
You gain (Value) Psi Strength but have a -(Value)% to hit with your main weapon.
Will Breaker (activatable)
Free action - If you attack with a Psi power this that requires a Psi Strength vs Will test the enemy has their will halved. 7 turn cool down
Soul Shatter (passive)
Damaging Psi abilities have a 15% chance to do double damage.
Psi Affinity: (name of one of the Psi power abilities) (activatable)
A free action to use the Psi ability your soldier has an affinity with. This acts in the normal manner of that ability but has double the cool down.
This all may fall on deaf ears but I wanted to share my thoughts and suggestions. The LW2 team has done a great job with all the class rebuilds but this might be an opportunity to take the Psi Ops to a more tactical level giving it a full LW2 evolution.
First I need to start by saying I have no idea about the formulas that are used to calculate the "To Hit" values for powers like Insanity. Currently it is to low in mid game making the % chance to hit being almost always better to just fire your main weapon. I do not know if this improves by the end game or if it does what people are seeing as a % to hit chance is at that point.
I need to point out I don't hate everything. I like the idea of slowing down training and making Psi Ops something special. But we need something of equivalent exchange.
As I'm not a coder but have free lanced as part of a table-top game dev team I'm going to express ideas in the realm of pen and paper. It goes without saying some of these suggestions might not be doable at all from a coding standpoint.
Base line To Hit or Hit Chance for Psi Ops powers should be no less than 75% for a newly trained Psi Ops soldier. Most of the powers have a 3 or more turn cool down making a 75% chance to hit the bottom hard cap feel much more fair then the current one.
Method one: The simple and quick fix.
The most boring and basic thing is to do a simple number adjustments and buff to the class abilities via damage, to hit and success for Psi offense vs will.
This is the easiest method and I personally believe the Psi Ops should be a little stronger and a competitive choice vs taking another LW2 class. Also along with the time investment and extra cost to get them in the first place needs to be taken into account.
Method two: A possible Psi evolution
Suggested passive power on all Psi Ops.
Psi Focus
For every turn a Psi Ops soldier does not use an activatable Psi power they will build one charge of Psi Focus up to a maximum of three. When Psi Ops soldier uses an activatable Psi power they will expend all their Psi Focus charges currently on that character, furthermore that Psi Ops soldier will not gain a new charge of Psi Focus on a turn an activatable Psi power is used. For each Psi Focus stored and used on a Psi power that power will be boosted.
Example: Psi Focus bonus
Psi damage attacks +1 damage per focus to a max +3
Psi to hit powers +5% to hit chance per focus to a max +15%
Psi strength + 5 per focus to a max +15
Psi shield and health + 1 health/shield per focus to a max of +3
How would this help?
At lower ranks Psi Ops suffer from having only a few powers with a significant cool down. Most of the time you are carrying the Psi Ops member of your team as they do not add much compared to the Sparks or other LW2 classes.
With this passive power it will allow you to play with your few Psi active powers at a boosted level making sure you are a contributing member of the team.
Now at high ranks you can either choose to not use Psi powers to build your charges for a tactical use of your powers or ignore it as you already have a good mix of powers that you are spamming every turn.
AWC Psi Ops only powers
This will add another level complexity and tactics that might be doable for Psi Ops.
I do not know how the AWC power are generated but I know it pulls from a list. If it is an RNG pool for all three ranks then you will need to remove a good number of the current powers so we can add some new ones. If each rank has its own pool I would suggest it goes Rank 1 AWC Psi power, Rank 2 Standard AWC power, Rank 3 AWC Psi power.
An alternate option that might make things a little cleaner is to add a 4th column to the AWC for Psi Ops being a Psi augment tree. This way it would make it easier to work with game balance being that you could only ever get 3 AWC Psi abilities.
Here is an example list of some suggested AWC Psi abilities and many will be thing we already see in game that can be renamed or tied to Psi powers.
Wicked Mind (based on Center Mass) (passive)
You do one additional point of base damage with your combat Psi abilities.
Soul Render (based on Lethal) (passive)
You do two additional point of base damage with your combat Psi abilities.
Psi Focus Master (passive)
Your Psi Focus can caps at five charges instead of three.
Mind Wipe (based on Conceal: remove Conceal from other AWC power pools for Psi Ops) (activatable)
You wipe the minds of the foes around you gaining concealment and this can be done at any location, but when done inside the detection radii of an nearby enemy the soldier will be revealed when flanked.
Inner Focus (activatable)
You reset the cool down of all your Psi powers and this ability ends your activation. 7 turn cool down
Mind over Matter (passive)
You gain (Value) Psi Strength but have a -(Value)% to hit with your main weapon.
Will Breaker (activatable)
Free action - If you attack with a Psi power this that requires a Psi Strength vs Will test the enemy has their will halved. 7 turn cool down
Soul Shatter (passive)
Damaging Psi abilities have a 15% chance to do double damage.
Psi Affinity: (name of one of the Psi power abilities) (activatable)
A free action to use the Psi ability your soldier has an affinity with. This acts in the normal manner of that ability but has double the cool down.
This all may fall on deaf ears but I wanted to share my thoughts and suggestions. The LW2 team has done a great job with all the class rebuilds but this might be an opportunity to take the Psi Ops to a more tactical level giving it a full LW2 evolution.
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JulianSkies
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Psi abilities hit chance is calculated similarly to weapon accuracy, actually.
Your "aim" is the psi offence start, each ability has an innate bonus (insanity has +30), and the enemy "defense" is their will.
So yes, you're in general really inaccurate because of how those numbers interact
Also each rank of AWC ability has it's own list, both which is different for offensive and defensive abilities. Theoretically making a set of AWC abilities only for psi ops would be doable, not sure how good the idea is
Your "aim" is the psi offence start, each ability has an innate bonus (insanity has +30), and the enemy "defense" is their will.
So yes, you're in general really inaccurate because of how those numbers interact
Also each rank of AWC ability has it's own list, both which is different for offensive and defensive abilities. Theoretically making a set of AWC abilities only for psi ops would be doable, not sure how good the idea is
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
I'm a ways away from having Psi, but I'm following this topic with interest. There's a lot of stuff hard to balance in LW2 and we should expect things to change quite a bit.
Until such time, for those who want to fiddle, there's either INI edits or mods. Here's 3 mods that could make things different. All are said to work with LW2 but the last one is a bit complex.
Faster Psi Lab Training
What it says on the tin. Adjustable with Mod Config Menu.
LW Psi Rookies
Have Rookies become an alternate additional Psi class. Can carry rifle, cannon, or sniper rifle and their weapon perk changes based upon that (which is fricken' amazing all by itself).
Partly Gifted
Have all troops gain some Psi skills. Needs the mod Utility Slot Sidearms to carry the Psi Amp, which isn't always necessary.
Until such time, for those who want to fiddle, there's either INI edits or mods. Here's 3 mods that could make things different. All are said to work with LW2 but the last one is a bit complex.
Faster Psi Lab Training
What it says on the tin. Adjustable with Mod Config Menu.
LW Psi Rookies
Have Rookies become an alternate additional Psi class. Can carry rifle, cannon, or sniper rifle and their weapon perk changes based upon that (which is fricken' amazing all by itself).
Partly Gifted
Have all troops gain some Psi skills. Needs the mod Utility Slot Sidearms to carry the Psi Amp, which isn't always necessary.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Psi ops would be perfectly fine if they could train all their skills. The balancing factor is already there in the long training time and also the whole concept of infiltrations with multiple teams means you can't take one everywhere even if they were that good. I could understand some randomness in how much time it takes to get their good skills, but not randomness in whether they get them at all to begin with.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Part of the issue is in general there are four primary powers and then support skills for those powers.
Insanity + booster (gives damage + rupture)
Soul fire + booster (gives vampirism)
Stasis + 2 boosters (self protect + help others)
Fortress + bastion
Mind merge+booster
Then
Fuse
Solace
Null lance
Void rift
Domination
It's a hodgepodge of things thrown together, and if you get them all it's pretty cool. But getting a smattering of them makes it tough.
I would prefer to see a tear down of the entire skill set and replaced as (you can adjust to taste)
Left column is all powers - soul fire, void rift, fortress, solace, etc.
Right Column is modifiers that affect all the powers on the left. Range increase, area increase, intensity increase, to hit bonuses, improved protection.
So then the psiop can then have one skill that is really jazzed up (range, area of effect, intensity, etc) or several skills that are so-so or the whole range of skills that are all at baseline.
So my set would like like this:
Left column
Soul fire (one target direct damage)
Rift (area of effect damage)
Fortress (protection from fire, short range)
Stasis (shield on one enemy)
Solace (no panic on friends, doesn't stop mind control, short range)
Insanity (panic and disorientation to start, no mind control to start)
Domination (3 turns, usable once)
Null lance (single wide shot)
All of these powers are fairly weak before upgrades.
Right column
Breadth - soul fire, insanity, stasis, domination, any adjacent enemies take a lesser effect (stun, disorient, 1 HP damage) rift,fortress, solace: AOE range increase, null lance- widened like a trench gun
Depth - soul fire, rift, null lance - damage increase. Insanity - more available effects including mind control. Domination - enemy skills improved while mind controlled. Solace - stops mind control. Stasis - auto self protect. Fortress - adds explosions,acid.
Intensity - all effects against enemies (hit or miss) reduce enemy will. All effects against allies add will.
Vision - squad site effects on all ranged powers. Anything that was previously auto hit now has a to hit roll. Any allies in local AOE gain +1 vision range.
Insight - any enemy hit by an attack gives vision for the next turn (does not pop pods). Allies under a friendly effect get +1 vision.
Foresight - etc
Refreshment - etc
Rejuvenation - extra power - using it instantly refreshes one used power (of your choice). It has a long cool down.
You get the point. Yes, balancing would be a mess. So you could improve a single power with many of the goodies and have a single nuclear cannon or a couple of jazzed up powers or a horde of powers that are so-so.
Insanity + booster (gives damage + rupture)
Soul fire + booster (gives vampirism)
Stasis + 2 boosters (self protect + help others)
Fortress + bastion
Mind merge+booster
Then
Fuse
Solace
Null lance
Void rift
Domination
It's a hodgepodge of things thrown together, and if you get them all it's pretty cool. But getting a smattering of them makes it tough.
I would prefer to see a tear down of the entire skill set and replaced as (you can adjust to taste)
Left column is all powers - soul fire, void rift, fortress, solace, etc.
Right Column is modifiers that affect all the powers on the left. Range increase, area increase, intensity increase, to hit bonuses, improved protection.
So then the psiop can then have one skill that is really jazzed up (range, area of effect, intensity, etc) or several skills that are so-so or the whole range of skills that are all at baseline.
So my set would like like this:
Left column
Soul fire (one target direct damage)
Rift (area of effect damage)
Fortress (protection from fire, short range)
Stasis (shield on one enemy)
Solace (no panic on friends, doesn't stop mind control, short range)
Insanity (panic and disorientation to start, no mind control to start)
Domination (3 turns, usable once)
Null lance (single wide shot)
All of these powers are fairly weak before upgrades.
Right column
Breadth - soul fire, insanity, stasis, domination, any adjacent enemies take a lesser effect (stun, disorient, 1 HP damage) rift,fortress, solace: AOE range increase, null lance- widened like a trench gun
Depth - soul fire, rift, null lance - damage increase. Insanity - more available effects including mind control. Domination - enemy skills improved while mind controlled. Solace - stops mind control. Stasis - auto self protect. Fortress - adds explosions,acid.
Intensity - all effects against enemies (hit or miss) reduce enemy will. All effects against allies add will.
Vision - squad site effects on all ranged powers. Anything that was previously auto hit now has a to hit roll. Any allies in local AOE gain +1 vision range.
Insight - any enemy hit by an attack gives vision for the next turn (does not pop pods). Allies under a friendly effect get +1 vision.
Foresight - etc
Refreshment - etc
Rejuvenation - extra power - using it instantly refreshes one used power (of your choice). It has a long cool down.
You get the point. Yes, balancing would be a mess. So you could improve a single power with many of the goodies and have a single nuclear cannon or a couple of jazzed up powers or a horde of powers that are so-so.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Well Elfich pointed it out well and I find this is an issue with oversimplification of classes/game mechanism. The Psi Ops don't have much to work with for minor modifiers so when something changes it is a larger swing.
I do believe the Psi Ops class needs a evolution that will take time to play test and grow. I'm for adding a number of ways to make this class a more in-depth class similar to the rest of the classes minus the Spark.
I do believe the Psi Ops class needs a evolution that will take time to play test and grow. I'm for adding a number of ways to make this class a more in-depth class similar to the rest of the classes minus the Spark.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
So the calculation is...JulianSkies wrote:Psi abilities hit chance is calculated similarly to weapon accuracy, actually.
Your "aim" is the psi offence start, each ability has an innate bonus (insanity has +30), and the enemy "defense" is their will.
So yes, you're in general really inaccurate because of how those numbers interact
Psi Offense + Ability Bonus - Enemy Will = Hit Rate
Is that correct?
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JulianSkies
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
Correct! That's what rules the hit rate of psi abiilties.Sines wrote:So the calculation is...JulianSkies wrote:Psi abilities hit chance is calculated similarly to weapon accuracy, actually.
Your "aim" is the psi offence start, each ability has an innate bonus (insanity has +30), and the enemy "defense" is their will.
So yes, you're in general really inaccurate because of how those numbers interact
Psi Offense + Ability Bonus - Enemy Will = Hit Rate
Is that correct?
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
I read somewhere there is an ini setting you can turn on to see your psi obs skill tree, but I can't find it anymore. Anyone know where it is? Would at least make it easier to know what to pick.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
I actually don't think they were OP in vanilla. I played through legend difficulty there a couple times (only trying veteran in LW2 right now) and was regularly tempted not to take them on missions because my other soldiers were better. I mostly took them when a Gatekeeper was there and that was for the Stasis ability since I knew I could lock the Gatekeeper down for more than half an action if I needed to. Other than that, I just took psi-ops to have some fun with Fuse or Domination. I didn't even consider them essential for the final mission, although I usually took one for the Domination ability and to have an expendable scout/damage sponge so that I could rest easier.
With that said, there would be little lost in just treating them like vanilla as far as being able to train the abilities. I do like the idea of having to level them up before training the next abilities though.
With that said, there would be little lost in just treating them like vanilla as far as being able to train the abilities. I do like the idea of having to level them up before training the next abilities though.
Alternate throught - PsiOps replaces the AWC for some soldiers
Thinking about PsiOps again for a minute. I am thinking about having act as an alternative to the AWC. Once the PsiChamber is built you can stick people in the PsiOps tube -as long as they have never had AWC training. Some of the skills would have to be dependent upon others (Fortress before Bastion, etc). And PsiOp training time takes longer than AWC time so you don't want to throw everyone into the PsiOps tube. The existing powers would have to be tweaked to fit in the new system.
Yes random training is still there so you pick your poison each training level of the PsiOp.
Trade offs: The PsiOps skills don't get the same kind of synergy that the AWC skills do (okay, AWC synergy is spotty, but that is for another day). But you get access to a collection of weird powers that are PsiOps exclusive. At that point you could throw in a whole slew of other PsiOps exclusive perks that couldn't be considered before. And the powers could be of a significantly wider power range.
Variety of examples of other perks that could be available (all of these perks are deliberately written to avoid overlap with existing perks):
Telepathy: Get a presence marker on the map for any biological enemy, similar to the old Bioelectric Skin. Does not expose robots.
Telekinetic: Give a move to one other soldier (with +1 bonus move), with unlimited "muscle fiber density" jumps in the move.
Greater Vision: Permanent increase of vision range by 2.
See through another eyes: Attack power-Get line of sight through the attacked enemy. Lasts a bunch of turns. Does not otherwise affect the enemy.
Bleed over - When any psionic attack that does damage kills an enemy, any extra damage immediately hits the next closest biological enemy.
Illusions - Create targets similar to the mimic beacon. the power creates several mimic illusions that all start in the psiops current location, all of the mimics get a scamper move and the PsiOp is concealed.
Weapons master - PsiOp does not get any benefit from weapons add-ons. Their power gives them limited effect of all of the add ons. Progression is limited to skill level and tech level. The PsiOp never gets an equivalent to standard Tier 3 gear with this power but has access to all of the add-ons.
Eagle Eye: Range penalties for weapon attacks are halved.
Yes random training is still there so you pick your poison each training level of the PsiOp.
Trade offs: The PsiOps skills don't get the same kind of synergy that the AWC skills do (okay, AWC synergy is spotty, but that is for another day). But you get access to a collection of weird powers that are PsiOps exclusive. At that point you could throw in a whole slew of other PsiOps exclusive perks that couldn't be considered before. And the powers could be of a significantly wider power range.
Variety of examples of other perks that could be available (all of these perks are deliberately written to avoid overlap with existing perks):
Telepathy: Get a presence marker on the map for any biological enemy, similar to the old Bioelectric Skin. Does not expose robots.
Telekinetic: Give a move to one other soldier (with +1 bonus move), with unlimited "muscle fiber density" jumps in the move.
Greater Vision: Permanent increase of vision range by 2.
See through another eyes: Attack power-Get line of sight through the attacked enemy. Lasts a bunch of turns. Does not otherwise affect the enemy.
Bleed over - When any psionic attack that does damage kills an enemy, any extra damage immediately hits the next closest biological enemy.
Illusions - Create targets similar to the mimic beacon. the power creates several mimic illusions that all start in the psiops current location, all of the mimics get a scamper move and the PsiOp is concealed.
Weapons master - PsiOp does not get any benefit from weapons add-ons. Their power gives them limited effect of all of the add ons. Progression is limited to skill level and tech level. The PsiOp never gets an equivalent to standard Tier 3 gear with this power but has access to all of the add-ons.
Eagle Eye: Range penalties for weapon attacks are halved.
Re: Alternate throught - PsiOps replaces the AWC for some soldiers
I might quibble about some of the implementations, but I like this idea. It would definitely give some different flavor to each of the psiops even if they could get the whole tree of regular perks. Unfortunately, I'm sure by version 1.2, they are not looking to do significant revisions, but given the current state of the code, how many of these could be implemented without major additions to the code?Elfich wrote:Thinking about PsiOps again for a minute. I am thinking about having act as an alternative to the AWC. Once the PsiChamber is built you can stick people in the PsiOps tube -as long as they have never had AWC training. Some of the skills would have to be dependent upon others (Fortress before Bastion, etc). And PsiOp training time takes longer than AWC time so you don't want to throw everyone into the PsiOps tube. The existing powers would have to be tweaked to fit in the new system.
Yes random training is still there so you pick your poison each training level of the PsiOp.
Trade offs: The PsiOps skills don't get the same kind of synergy that the AWC skills do (okay, AWC synergy is spotty, but that is for another day). But you get access to a collection of weird powers that are PsiOps exclusive. At that point you could throw in a whole slew of other PsiOps exclusive perks that couldn't be considered before. And the powers could be of a significantly wider power range.
Variety of examples of other perks that could be available (all of these perks are deliberately written to avoid overlap with existing perks):
Telepathy: Get a presence marker on the map for any biological enemy, similar to the old Bioelectric Skin. Does not expose robots.
Telekinetic: Give a move to one other soldier (with +1 bonus move), with unlimited "muscle fiber density" jumps in the move.
Greater Vision: Permanent increase of vision range by 2.
See through another eyes: Attack power-Get line of sight through the attacked enemy. Lasts a bunch of turns. Does not otherwise affect the enemy.
Bleed over - When any psionic attack that does damage kills an enemy, any extra damage immediately hits the next closest biological enemy.
Illusions - Create targets similar to the mimic beacon. the power creates several mimic illusions that all start in the psiops current location, all of the mimics get a scamper move and the PsiOp is concealed.
Weapons master - PsiOp does not get any benefit from weapons add-ons. Their power gives them limited effect of all of the add ons. Progression is limited to skill level and tech level. The PsiOp never gets an equivalent to standard Tier 3 gear with this power but has access to all of the add-ons.
Eagle Eye: Range penalties for weapon attacks are halved.
Re: Psi Ops still suck?
An easy way to fix psi-ops is to just give them no infiltration time on a mission. The first psi soldier can be added for free, and maybe even reduce things overall. They are mind readers after all , which would be a great advantage for infiltration.
Re: Alternate throught - PsiOps replaces the AWC for some soldiers
I realized that some of the powers I threw in would be subject to balancing. I was looking for ways to show it without going completely crazy.RapidFire wrote:I migight quibble about some of the implementations, but I like this idea. It would definitely give some different flavor to each of the psiops even if they could get the whole tree of regular perks. Unfortunately, I'm sure by version 1.2, they are not looking to do significant revisions, but given the current state of the code, how many of these could be implemented without major additions to the code?
I get the impression that everyone likes the idea of the PsiOp (it has been around in XCom for ever) but hitting the sweet spot for it so it isn't a one man juggernaut and isn't a permanent back bencher is really tough because it operates so differently from all the other classes.