Retraining officers please?

[Sevireth]

Made the perfect battle squad for HQ raids and the such, except for the part that their officer is stuck with Oscar Mike, nearly useless on untimed missions, instead of Focus Fire for Iago and other high-value targets. Why not let officer skills reset in AWC just like their regular, soldier skills?

[zula]

I second that.

[chrisb]

What's the point of making permanent decisions if you can change your mind every 5 minutes. I'd rather see retraining removed.

[JulianSkies]

What's the point of making permanent decisions if you can change your mind every 5 minutes. I'd rather see retraining removed.

What's the point of making permanent decisions of you can just start over anyway

[chrisb]

I'm not sure what your point is. Starting over means you lost the campaign.

The only way you lose in this game is by your own mistakes. Taking away the ability to make mistakes takes away the ability to lose. Not much of a game left if you do that.

[LordYanaek]

I'd rather see retraining removed.

I thought it was already removed

Seriously the retraining time is prohibitive enough that you don't want to retrain most of the time. I don't think the retraining for officers was left out for balancing reasons, most probably there was no code or UI to use as a base and they had other priorities. Even if it was added, it would certainly take as long as regular perks retraining so we wouldn't really be able to use it anyway.

Squad planning also involves deciding what missions they will do most of the time. Next time you'll have an officer with Focus Fire or 2 for combat heavy missions. Don't worry thought, you can take the HQ without Focus Fire, it's a small help in some situations but for tough fights Command on a high damage soldier is still your most powerful tool.

[JulianSkies]

I'm not sure what your point is. Starting over means you lost the campaign.

The only way you lose in this game is by your own mistakes. Taking away the ability to make mistakes takes away the ability to lose. Not much of a game left if you do that.

Starting over is just the longest loading screen ever, it's just more time that it takes to get back to where you were before.
You say it as of victory is not an inevitability, it's just a matter of how many times you try, there is no actual permanence of the effects of a loss, whether it takes one minute to load a game or two days to restart from the start the bad choice you made may well not have happened.

Or, in other words, it's not really your place to decide or judge whether or not someone should desire more or less permanence in their game.

[LeaderEnemyBoss]

I'm not sure what your point is. Starting over means you lost the campaign.

The only way you lose in this game is by your own mistakes. Taking away the ability to make mistakes takes away the ability to lose. Not much of a game left if you do that.

Starting over is just the longest loading screen ever, it's just more time that it takes to get back to where you were before.
You say it as of victory is not an inevitability, it's just a matter of how many times you try, there is no actual permanence of the effects of a loss, whether it takes one minute to load a game or two days to restart from the start the bad choice you made may well not have happened.

Or, in other words, it's not really your place to decide or judge whether or not someone should desire more or less permanence in their game.

It is the job of the game designer though, and as far as we know, the leading figure behind LW2 is not a huge fan of retraining abilities. If the player decides that he doesnt like the design principle of the game designer: great, that's what mods are made for.

[chrisb]

I'm not sure what your point is. Starting over means you lost the campaign.

The only way you lose in this game is by your own mistakes. Taking away the ability to make mistakes takes away the ability to lose. Not much of a game left if you do that.

Starting over is just the longest loading screen ever, it's just more time that it takes to get back to where you were before.
You say it as of victory is not an inevitability, it's just a matter of how many times you try, there is no actual permanence of the effects of a loss, whether it takes one minute to load a game or two days to restart from the start the bad choice you made may well not have happened.

Or, in other words, it's not really your place to decide or judge whether or not someone should desire more or less permanence in their game.

It is the job of the game designer though, and as far as we know, the leading figure behind LW2 is not a huge fan of retraining abilities. If the player decides that he doesnt like the design principle of the game designer: great, that's what mods are made for.

Exactly! I wasn't judging anyone, I was sharing my opinion on the requested feature. If a player wants to change the way the game is played for themselves I'm in full support of that. It's your time afterall. If there is some part you find not enjoyable then there are many mods and configurations available that you can use to change the game for yourself.

My point was that games like LW are built on a foundation of permanent choices with respect to a running campaign. Your assertion that starting over is just a long way of getting back to where you were is IMO completely wrong. You will not get the same RNG and you will have new knowledge of the mistakes you made last time. Each time you start over you get better at progressing further. The game itself is balanced around you being able to make a certain number of mistakes. Even Legend has plenty of room for error. Picking the wrong officer perk is not a mistake that is going to typically cause you to lose. If the OP has the 'perfect' combat squad, then the focus fire perk should be completely unnecessary to win. Calling it a mistake is really not even fair. OM may not be as strong as FF all the time, but it's not like it has no advantage at all.

If it were me in that position, I would look for situations that having OM could help. I've had plenty of situations where being able to move an extra 2 tiles would be a huge advantage. How many times do we end up in a situation where if we could only move 2 more tiles we would have the perfect flamer/grenade/flashbang/flank... I think people have this distorted idea that OM is only for pushing VIPs across the finish line is faulty, and this mechanic is being removed entirely in 1.3

The reason I responded to the post in the first place was simply because I don't agree that this is a feature that needs to be implemented in the core mod. That's just my opinion, not a judgement on anyone who has a different opinion. And I think it was important to share my opinion so that others who are unsure whether or not this is a good idea can hear my side of the argument. If someone has an opinion as to why this is a good idea, then they are free to share that as well. I will of course challenge them on it, that is the point of having a place for public discourse after all! Who knows, maybe you can convince me that I'm wrong and I will change my opinion. It's happened plenty of times before.

In retrospect, perhaps I could have been more helpful and provided examples where the OP could have taken what he considered a 'mistake' and helped him realize how to turn this into something that is still a usable perk. I will certainly try to be more helpful in the future!

[JulianSkies]

Starting over is just the longest loading screen ever, it's just more time that it takes to get back to where you were before.
You say it as of victory is not an inevitability, it's just a matter of how many times you try, there is no actual permanence of the effects of a loss, whether it takes one minute to load a game or two days to restart from the start the bad choice you made may well not have happened.

Or, in other words, it's not really your place to decide or judge whether or not someone should desire more or less permanence in their game.

It is the job of the game designer though, and as far as we know, the leading figure behind LW2 is not a huge fan of retraining abilities. If the player decides that he doesnt like the design principle of the game designer: great, that's what mods are made for.

Exactly! I wasn't judging anyone, I was sharing my opinion on the requested feature. If a player wants to change the way the game is played for themselves I'm in full support of that. It's your time afterall. If there is some part you find not enjoyable then there are many mods and configurations available that you can use to change the game for yourself.

My point was that games like LW are built on a foundation of permanent choices with respect to a running campaign. Your assertion that starting over is just a long way of getting back to where you were is IMO completely wrong. You will not get the same RNG and you will have new knowledge of the mistakes you made last time. Each time you start over you get better at progressing further. The game itself is balanced around you being able to make a certain number of mistakes. Even Legend has plenty of room for error. Picking the wrong officer perk is not a mistake that is going to typically cause you to lose. If the OP has the 'perfect' combat squad, then the focus fire perk should be completely unnecessary to win. Calling it a mistake is really not even fair. OM may not be as strong as FF all the time, but it's not like it has no advantage at all.

If it were me in that position, I would look for situations that having OM could help. I've had plenty of situations where being able to move an extra 2 tiles would be a huge advantage. How many times do we end up in a situation where if we could only move 2 more tiles we would have the perfect flamer/grenade/flashbang/flank... I think people have this distorted idea that OM is only for pushing VIPs across the finish line is faulty, and this mechanic is being removed entirely in 1.3

The reason I responded to the post in the first place was simply because I don't agree that this is a feature that needs to be implemented in the core mod. That's just my opinion, not a judgement on anyone who has a different opinion. And I think it was important to share my opinion so that others who are unsure whether or not this is a good idea can hear my side of the argument. If someone has an opinion as to why this is a good idea, then they are free to share that as well. I will of course challenge them on it, that is the point of having a place for public discourse after all! Who knows, maybe you can convince me that I'm wrong and I will change my opinion. It's happened plenty of times before.

In retrospect, perhaps I could have been more helpful and provided examples where the OP could have taken what he considered a 'mistake' and helped him realize how to turn this into something that is still a usable perk. I will certainly try to be more helpful in the future!

Yeah, sorry for the sass in response as well. Seen a few too many people just too eager to call the other 'wrong' for no reason, especially when it's about how they enjoy things and I just read you as coming around as generally unhelpful. I probably should have been more clear myself.