Reworking the Technical

[The Boz]

I am greatly saddened by the state of the Technical. Here is an attempt to rework it into something... nicer.
Key issues are lack of reliability (rocket scatter, low flame range, low burning chance), and lack of late-game punch. Also, some questionable perks (concussion?).

THE GAUNTLET
The first major thing I'd change is reduce Flamethrower uses by 1, and give him a Shredder. A relatively nerfed version with OK damage, good range, but no cover busting, low armor shredding, no armor penetration, etc. These things can be taken back with perks, though. A tight cone with a range of 10 and a width of 4 at the maximum end sounds good. Automatically hits, shreds 1 armor, deals 3-6 damage. The role of the weapon is reliable medium-to-long range damage and armor shredding, with a potential to destroy cover. Less damage than a rocket of the same level, but greater coverage, no damage fall-off, lower damage variance, and different perks.
Second, rocket scatter. It needs to go, at least while standing still. It just really isn't a fun mechanic, and it's impossible to plan or play around it. Big, important, one-use abilities shouldn't have a chance to outright *fail*. Nothing else in the game behaves like that. So, 0 spread if fired as first action, 4 spread if fired after moving. Damage and AoE stay as is. Affects all warheads.
Third, the flamethrower. While it has reach problems right now, these are somewhat mitigated for the class by the shredder. Instead, its damage needs to go down, while its burning chance and angle of coverage need to go up. Six tiles at range of 6 with 60% to burn sounds great.

PERKS
Our Gauntlet now has three weapons: A rocket launcher, a flamethrower, and a shredder. Each has one shot. Each has specific uses, associated perks, and tactics. This help us see what the class is, can, and should be. Two of the gauntlet weapons force the Technical to be in the front line or somewhere close (shredder and flamethrower), so defensive abilities are a good idea.

I want the Technical to have two active abilities on each of the three gauntlet weapons; one low-level set that is not mutually exclusive and provides utility, and one at MSGT that is mutually exclusive. That way you can build the Technical to be great at one of the weapons, or tactically versatile with multiple tools, or some other combination.

LCPL - This rank needs to give gauntlet-weapon-focused perks only, to help shape and give identity and role to our new Technical. One of these is a new active ability, the other two are passive, and affect only the gauntlet weapon related to it.
Fire In The Hole can stay. Reduces rocket scatter back to 0 after movement. No effect on stationary launches.
Microflechettes increase shredder's damage against fleshy targets by 1. Drones, MECs, turrets, Sectopods, and Armor 4+ unaffected.
Roust can also stay, but the pattern is reshaped to fit the new flamethrower (lower range, high coverage).

CPL - We can start mixing it in here a bit. One perk that isn't centered on a particular gauntlet weapon, but improves the Technical's ability to use all of them. Again, one more passive weapon-centered perk, and one active ability.
Firepower allows all three gauntlet weapons (default and MSGT abilities only) to deal critical damage, similar to Biggest Booms.
Wall Of Lead is a shredder special attack that deals very low damage (1-3), but suppresses all units hit. Soft CC without overwatch.
Napalm X is renamed to Phosphorous, with functionality intact. Turns the flamethrower into the best anti-flesh CC in the game.

SGT - Gives us another passive buff on any gauntlet weapon, another passive buff on one gauntlet weapon, and another active gauntlet weapon ability.
Concussion Rocket is moved one rank, but the cloud of smoke it leaves now has a duration that fits the stun/disorient duration.
Shredding Power increases the shredder gun's armor shred by 2. Simple weapon buff that replaces Shredder for the SMG/AR.
Backblast replaces Burnout. Now works with any gauntlet weapon, but the duration is significantly decreased to 1.

SSGT - Our first three ranks give us one active ability for each of the gauntlet weapons, some passive buffs for each of the gauntlet weapons' default abilities, and two buffs to all of the Technical abilities, one offensive, one defensive.
Tandem Warheads is renamed into Submunitions. Retains the same functionality.
Formidable stays as is, where is.
Phosphorous is renamed to Thermite Jet, retains same functionality.

TSGT - The base of the Technical is now functional, the soldier is experienced, and now we can start adding perks that have a real impact on the game...
Javelin Rockets works exactly as is.
Massive Damage works like Fire and Steel, but also affects the shredder abilities.
Coming In Hot allows the Technical to dash and use any gauntlet ability. 5 turn cooldown.

GSGT - An important rank with powerful perks that aren't class-defining, as this isn't either the master rank, nor is it early enough to shape the class' gameplay too much.
Salvo Fire replaces both Salvo and Quickburn. The first use of any gauntlet weapon does not end the turn.
Collateral Damage gives the shredder default ability its cover destruction abilities back. Modest at first, but scales with tech level.
High Intensity Burn increases flamethrower damage by 2, range by 1, and burning chance by 20%. Default and MSGT abilities only.

MSGT - This rank is mostly unchanged, as Bunker Buster is already good, and Firestorm benefits greatly from previous perks, such as Coming In Hot and Backblast. Obviously, Rapid Fire is replaced by a powerful shredder active ability, though.
Bunker Buster stays exactly as is.
Obliterate is a powerful one-off attack that deals ~50% increased damage (with lower spread) and ignores armor.
Firestorm stays exactly as is.

You will notice that the Technical has lost all perks related to the base weapon. So, Suppression, Shredder, Rapid Fire, all gone. The first two have been turned into perks for the shredder. My intent is to make an "empty" experienced Technical merely a rookie with significantly enhanced stats, but one that already has had a massive impact on the flow of the mission. One can have up to *seven* different gauntlet abilities, plus up to two abilities that are supposed to make deploying gauntlet weapons easier... Or just four, with the three basic ones, and another at MSGT, while picking many passive buffs.
Similarly, Fortify and Tactical Sense have also been removed, leaving the primary defensive perks available to the Technical either entirely passive (Formidable), or related to gauntlet use (Backblast), or CC (flamethrower, especially with Phosphorous).

There could also be an early-mid tier tech that unlocks fuel, ammo, or warhead as a utility item that increases the number of uses a gauntlet weapon's default ability has by 1. Mutually exclusive, so you can only ever carry one of these. This item would have to be pretty expensive, because an extra use of a fully-perked-out ability is very powerful.

In order to not obviate the class, the tech suit line of armors and related tech needs to be rethought. Only the Technical should be able to use the Gauntlet. Suits and SPARKs should be able to select *one* of the weapons that a gauntlet has, for example, with maybe one built-in perk (such as Collateral Damage for the Shredder as is right now).

[gimrah]

I suspect you'll find Pavonis have limited appetite for a complete class overhaul of this nature.

If you have suggested tweaks / perks that relate to the existing concept, they might be more receptive.

[ConradKurze]

The idea of putting a weaker Shredder on the Gauntlet is interesting (the flamethrower is basically a weaker Flame Cannon), as it would add more variety to technicals, and more long range damage options. I don't know if that is the best way to revamp the class, though.
Removing Scatter when not moving seems like a must have. Having a Technical wiff their rocket and hit none of the 3 enemies you had targeted and destroy none of their cover is just bullshit.
The key problem for Technicals (imo) though, is their limited use. All their left-side abilities buff rockets, so after launching their one rocket (prior to EXO) they are essentially a rookie with slightly better stats. Bunker Buster at the very end of the tree means you'll have done like 20 missions without it. EXO is also kinda bad in comparison to Predator, 1 less armor and health, but its supposed to go on frontline units? Flamer Technicals don't have as much of a problem with this as they start off with 2 uses, get 1 actually useful flame ability, and EXO doubles both of those abilities (4 flames, 2 rousts).

I do think Technicals need a lot of work to make them competitive late game (Gauntlet 2 giving just +1 damage, Gauntlet 3 gives... +3? damage. Where as Rifles highest tier is over double the damage of the conventional tier (3-5 vs 7-13)), without making them just plain OP early game. Right now Technicals are good for early, and not so much for later.

[Sines]

I've said this elsewhere, but I think there is one small change that would help the Technical a lot, particularly the Rocketeer Build.

With one exception, talents boost either the rockets or the flamethrower. When you first take Fire in the Hole to improve your Rocket aim, you are improving only a single use ability. It completely fails to boost half the power of your Gauntlet, which is the Flamethrower. Pretty much all of a Gunners talents will improve their gunning in some way. But many Technical talents only help part of the Gauntlet. FitH is an extreme example, simply because it takes quite a while to get an EXO Suit and Bunker Buster to add extra rockets, yet it's very early on in the build, and a very weak choice at the time because all it does is make a single-use unreliable ability a little less unreliable.

As such, I think the Technical would be a lot better off if you simply had a fourth utility slot, like the Grenadier, wherein you choose one of three loadouts.

2 Rockets
3 Flamethrowers
1 Rocket, 2 Flamethrowers

Rocketeers won't need to wait until EXO Suit to have 2 rockets, and don't need to move from the mid-length height-advantage terrain they favor, to the short-range "Wherever there's cover" terrain of the Flamethrower. Allowing specialization would make the Rocket or Flamethrower enhancing perks feel better. I decided to allow the Flamethrower spec to get only 3 charges (instead of 4) because I think the Flamethrower is in a better place than the Rockets, and to add a bit of enticement to the 'diversity build' by giving it more untalented power.

EXO/WAR Suits could be left the same (allowing 3 Rockets or 5 FT charges), or they could offer different options to enhance your chosen Gauntlet Munitions. For example, further reduced rocket scatter, higher burn chance on flamethrower, etc. But it's the ability to specialize in one weapon from the loadout screen that I think is important, regardless of how you implement it.

Either that, or adjust some talents to help out both weapons. Currently, the only skill that enhances both is Fire and Steel, and that seems to heavily favor the Flamethrower, since it's a flat bonus to damage, so it favors the more regularly damaging FT.

[The Boz]

I think the Technical would be a lot better off if you simply had a fourth utility slot, like the Grenadier, wherein you choose one of three loadouts.

2 Rockets
3 Flamethrowers
1 Rocket, 2 Flamethrowers

This still leaves them highly binary, and you will find that pretty much noone is interested in carrying half-and-half if their perks only affect one ability.

[Mooncabbage]

The Technical is an interesting class. The rocket has the potential to be devastating when you really need it. I started off hating the flamethrower, but having implemented the +1 range fix, it makes them a very interesting support class. An on fire enemy is essentially disabled, especially melee focused units like the berserker. You can also deny ground with the flame thrower, since units passing through it catch fire. It presents a lot of tactical options. Also, a utility rifleman isn't the worst thing in the world.

There are a few thoughts I'd like to put forward for discussion though, as potential ways to fun up the class.

1) The fixed nature of the gauntlet is a problem, since you have to spec rocket or flame thrower more or less exclusively. 1 rocket and 2 flamethrower abilities, isn't really enough to make either one do a lot. Perhaps the secondary gauntlet weapon should allow a choice between a rocket launcher OR a flame thrower?

2) Technicals lack the utility of a class like the Grenadier, in terms of attack types. It would be nice, for example, if the flamethrower could be made to use a poison attack, or spray low damage, armour shredding acid, or spray a line of obscuring smoke. Not sure how it would be implemented, but it would make a flamethrower build more interesting.

Technicals seem stuck between two MMORPG archetypes, the high damage, long range Mage/Wizard/Artillery class, and a debuff/Shaman/Utility class. I see no reason it can't be made to work as a combination of the two, it just needs to be able to specialise more. It's not the only class that works like this. Grenadiers can be trained for high damage output, or smoke and flashbang builds. A Specialist can hack or heal. A gunner can be a very powerful damage dealing ranger type, or an enemy control suppression specialist. Just being two things isn't a problem, it's just hard to make the Technical very good at one or the other.

[brunodema]

I've finished a campaign on veteran and played half of another also on veteran (lost to Avatar). I can't get all the "hate" that technicals get, even though they're pretty situational class. They clearly aren't the best class ever for long missions, like HQ Assaults, Supply Raids, Golden Path Missions (the missions that pretty much define your campaign), but I find them awesome on early game (high dmg and pod deleters on short missions) and they're also really good in missions where you just want to kill stuff fast, like Retaliations, Rendezvous, Invasions, Troop Columns (just don't destroy too many bodies :p).

[dstar3k]

2) Technicals lack the utility of a class like the Grenadier, in terms of attack types. It would be nice, for example, if the flamethrower could be made to use a poison attack, or spray low damage, armour shredding acid, or spray a line of obscuring smoke. Not sure how it would be implemented, but it would make a flamethrower build more interesting.

Or how about giving them the Bombardier perk at Squaddie? Modified loads for the rocket launcher that let them load and fire a grenade further than they can throw it, possibly while still being subject to scatter? They don't get the various grenade increases that the grenadier does with higher-tier grenade launchers, so they aren't infringing on the Grenadier's specialty, but it would still let them have more long-range AoE utility.

Or bring back the ability to carry extra rockets, and with that add the ability to carry multiple types of rocket -- a rocket-sized flashbang could be _very_ useful.

[wei270]

i fine exo suit technical with smg actualy very good, especially if you give them aid protocol call they are very good now with the flamer rework. and the rocket as emergency.

the problem i do see with them is that i never touch the middle talent tree never ever it is either left or right or most commonly a mix of left and right

[Manifest]

I suspect you'll find Pavonis have limited appetite for a complete class overhaul of this nature.

If you have suggested tweaks / perks that relate to the existing concept, they might be more receptive.

Indeed. Simple solutions are the ticket, it's not like the class must be demolished from it's current state, it just needs tweaks.

[Silenus]

I'm a simple man, so I've made simple changes: damage, range, chance to apply burning, etc.

With some ini changes I made base flamethrower damage 4, then 6 and 8 for each respective gauntlet upgrade; chance to apply burning is now back to 70% (was nerfed to 60% in 1.1); base range is now 8 tiles instead of 7. I also buffed 'Roust' so its damage is 33% instead of 25%, and its chance to apply burning is 50%.

So far I'm much happier with my Firemen Technicals, though I've yet to see how they perform in late game.

[The Boz]

I'm a simple man, so I've made simple changes: damage, range, chance to apply burning, etc.

With some ini changes I made base flamethrower damage 4, then 6 and 8 for each respective gauntlet upgrade; chance to apply burning is now back to 70% (was nerfed to 60% in 1.1); base range is now 8 tiles instead of 7. I also buffed 'Roust' so its damage is 33% instead of 25%, and its chance to apply burning is 50%.

So far I'm much happier with my Firemen Technicals, though I've yet to see how they perform in late game.

Have you compared this technical's performance with a full kit offensive grenadier with 1 (2) incendiary grenade, 1 (3) plasma grenade, and 1 whatever?
My thinking is, even with that, it doesn't quite reach the grenadier's efficiency, versatility, and impact.

[Mooncabbage]

Having made more effort to use my Technical's flamethrowers, I find that even with the range buff, they are far too inconsistent in dealing damage or setting fires. That said, using them to deny ground is surprisingly effective. I have used the flamethrower a few times now to deny a flank, or prevent dangerous melee units getting too close.

[The Boz]

Having made more effort to use my Technical's flamethrowers, I find that even with the range buff, they are far too inconsistent in dealing damage or setting fires. That said, using them to deny ground is surprisingly effective. I have used the flamethrower a few times now to deny a flank, or prevent dangerous melee units getting too close.

Have tried this a few times. It works, but it only ever works against a total of two enemy units; Lancer and Berserker. Drones are immune to fire, and "denying ground" can only be done in places where you're also comfortable not advancing...

[Mooncabbage]

I have had situations where I wanted to I had to concentrate overwatch fire and cover on one side of a shed or the other, so I flamed the alley that I didn't want to worry about. In that case it didn't actually work for some reason, the flamethrower bugged out and managed to hit an ADVENT office behind cover, but didn't set the ground on fire. And drones are rarely worth worrying that much about. Their stun ability is very annoying, but that's about it. Also I think there is a perk that allows the flames to damage robots.

I'm neither saying that the technical flamethrower couldn't do with a buff, nor that it's something you do all the time, but it is something to be aware of.

[The Boz]

And drones are rarely worth worrying that much about. Their stun ability is very annoying, but that's about it. Also I think there is a perk that allows the flames to damage robots.

Drone stuns can make or break a mission, and the damage robots perk doesn't affect environmental fires, just the flamethrower/rouse attack.

[Mooncabbage]

With a Medical Specialist, you can just use Revival Protocol to negate a stun. Sometimes it works to your advantage, as often times the AI will ignore a stunned soldier in favour of active targets, leaving an otherwise exposed guy alive.

Also once your guys get a few rankups, it tends to miss anyway. I will usually try to take out a drone anyway, but it's not my biggest worry. Mutons and advanced troopers usually present more of a threat.

[cerebrawl]

Personally, what really makes me dislike using their abilities is loot destruction. Blasty grenadiers can get needle grenades, but technicals are stuck destroying loot with both rocket and flamerthrower, so I use them exceedingly sparingly. I'm looking forward to late game enemies with tons of staying power giving me a reason to use these abilities to soften them up. I mainly just use the rocket for terrain destruction as it is. Flamer can go more than 20 missions without being used, it's neat to shut down advent generals, mutons, etc though.

[nightwyrm]

I'm in Nov and I have MSGT ranked soldiers for all classes except for Techs and PsiOps. Shows how often I use them....

[Hazelnut]

I would like to see the shredder and fire&steel perks swapped. Burnout is too useful if you flame a lot like I do, and I would definitely mix it up between phosphorous and shredder. This way a tech can still be useful when not rocket/flaming by shredding armour.