[Suggestion] Make Equipment Perks Into Items

[Jacke]

I think far too many of the perks in the soldiers' rank abilities lists are really a piece of equipment that should be an item instead. Those perks should represent skills learned painfully over many battles.

That allows players conscious choices to (if needed) research, perhaps build, and equip their squad with them. This can go a long way to giving players a better feeling of control. As well, certain items can be appropriate at different phases of a campaign and changing them out won't require respeccing a soldier for weeks in the AWC.

My suggested list of perks to change to items. Behaviours, actions and ammo costs, and cooldowns would not change, just that the perk would come from carrying an item instead of a soldier rank ability.

Code: Select all

Perk            Class w/Ability     New Requirement     Min Rank    Research

Slug Shot       Assault             Shotgun             LCpl        Alien Biotech 
Trench Gun      Assault             Shotgun             Cpl         ADVENT Trooper Autopsy
Street Sweeper  Assault             Shotgun             MSgt        ADVENT Officer Autopsy
Needle Grenades Grenadier           dam 1-4             Rookie      Alien Biotech
Sapper Grenades Grenadier           Grenadier           LCpl        Alien Biotech
HEAT Grenades   Grenadier           Grenadier           SSgt        ADVENT Officer Autopsy  improved Needle Grenade
Tandem Grenades Grenadier Technical Grenadier Technical SSgt        ADVENT Officer Autopsy  improved Sapper Grenade
Tandem Rockets  Technical           Technical           SSgt        ADVENT Officer Autopsy
Pump Action     Ranger              Ranger 2nd Wpn      Squaddie    -

Some other perks and items could be modified in light of these changes. For example, Grenadier Combat Engineer would require the use of Sapper Grenades or Tandem Grenades. Plasma Grenades would come in two versions: Needle+HEAT and Sapper+Tandem.

To fill the spaces these perks took up, other perks from other classes could be copied in.

[Mooncabbage]

I can see what you're saying, but you remove most of the decision making and benefit of promoting troops. It changes the balance of xcom gameplay too far from the soldier/tactical side to the strategic layer.

[cmdrspyker92]

I can see what you're saying, but you remove most of the decision making and benefit of promoting troops. It changes the balance of xcom gameplay too far from the soldier/tactical side to the strategic layer.

And the strategic layer is already a little over oppressive at times due to infiltration and the brutality of some of the missions.
That said, I do like the idea of having certain early game items. Having an item that grant slugshot (for example) would expand builds for things like shotgun armed-but-not-assault classes. I think that's a good idea. Especially if it was available day one.

Though that said, it might screw with assault balance a little bit getting both slugshot (due to item) and electroshock and/or reflexes. Though at the cost of an item slot it sounds (relatively) fair, I don't know if the dev team would agree with me.

Shredder ammo come as an item eventually. So there's an argument in there somewhere. HEAT Ammo, is sadly missing per the wiki.

[cerebrawl]

That said, I do like the idea of having certain early game items. Having an item that grant slugshot (for example) would expand builds for things like shotgun armed-but-not-assault classes. I think that's a good idea. Especially if it was available day one.

Though that said, it might screw with assault balance a little bit getting both slugshot (due to item) and electroshock and/or reflexes. Though at the cost of an item slot it sounds (relatively) fair, I don't know if the dev team would agree with me.

Personally I added slugshot to the AWC tables at offense level 2, and restricted it from sharpshooter, gunner, ranger, and grenadier. So my technicals, shinobis and specialists can have it randomly. I forget if I restricted it for psi operatives.

Sidenote: I like it as a cooldown ability, it would be a bit OP as an always-on ammo.

[RapidFire]

While I love the XCOM 2 game overall and especially the Long War 2 expansion of it (it's much closer to what the game should have been in the first place), this equipment-perk issue has been one of my silent gripes. How does becoming more experienced as a shotgunner suddenly allow me to use a slug shot round? But if so, why can I only use one round every few turns. Load it up and get on the Sky Ranger.

In some battles, the Assault needs a little boost in the ranged department, and it's not exactly overpowered. This idea of clear separation of class functions is foreign to me---medium-range class, short-range class. Why can't I slap in several rounds of slug shot and fight beside my Ranger for a few rounds when necessary? The Ranger still has the advantage in medium-range combat since he's built for it. It blurs the classes a little, but it's reasonable, and it would make the Assault a much more effective class in the broader sense without being overpowered. Of course, as a standard slug shot ammo, it would probably need to remove the armor piercing effect for balance and maybe even buff the armor protection on enemies by ~50%.

I can justify equipment perks in my mind for special techniques like Street Sweeper, but it happens all throughout the XCOM 1 and 2 systems. The Specialist becomes a MSgt/Colonel and suddenly the Gremlin can use Capacitor Discharge. But then your Combat Protocol perk gets better when you upgrade the Gremlin. The inconsistency is a little frustrating, but it's one of those place I just have to sigh and remind myself that it's a great game overall.

In the original XCOM (1993), you just reloaded the ammo. I do understand the point of cutting down on micromanaging, but LW2 adds a lot of this back, and I think for the better usually at the level that they placed it.

[Jacke]

I can see what you're saying, but you remove most of the decision making and benefit of promoting troops. It changes the balance of xcom gameplay too far from the soldier/tactical side to the strategic layer.

No, I'm just saying that it's not quite right to put items into the soldier rank choices as it makes the soldiers and the perk too inflexible. It's better to make them items. There would still be other choices if these were removed and made items. And a soldier's stats still go up with rank too.

That said, I do like the idea of having certain early game items. Having an item that grant slugshot (for example) would expand builds for things like shotgun armed-but-not-assault classes. I think that's a good idea. Especially if it was available day one.

I suggested the items be gated by research. I picked the research as one done early (in March or April) so that it would be likely done by the time soldiers of the rank that would normally get the perk would be available. There should be no delay.

Though that said, it might screw with assault balance a little bit getting both slugshot (due to item) and electroshock and/or reflexes. Though at the cost of an item slot it sounds (relatively) fair, I don't know if the dev team would agree with me.

Shredder ammo come as an item eventually. So there's an argument in there somewhere. HEAT Ammo, is sadly missing per the wiki.

Making them flexible as items are would demand some more balance checking, but I'd think it would be worth it.

Sidenote: I like it as a cooldown ability, it would be a bit OP as an always-on ammo.

I'm assuming that using an item could still have a cooldown. What I wanted wasn't for example Slug Shot to change how it behaved in combat but how a soldier got it.

While I love the XCOM 2 game overall and especially the Long War 2 expansion of it (it's much closer to what the game should have been in the first place), this equipment-perk issue has been one of my silent gripes. How does becoming more experienced as a shotgunner suddenly allow me to use a slug shot round? But if so, why can I only use one round every few turns. Load it up and get on the Sky Ranger.

....

In the original XCOM (1993), you just reloaded the ammo. I do understand the point of cutting down on micromanaging, but LW2 adds a lot of this back, and I think for the better usually at the level that they placed it.

These sorts of game-oriented-but-contradicting-how-real-life-it's-modeled-upon decisions in the design irk me too. There's 8 soldier classes in the game when I think, especially with 3 skills available per rank, 5 was more than enough, they just had to be revised from stock XCOM 2. Some of the differences should come from how the squad troopers are equiped, not written in stone as a soldier class and 7 perk choices. It makes XCOM soldiers too rigid and structured. They're a resistance movement and the special ops arm of it to boot. Flexibility and improvisation should be second nature.

[RapidFire]

These sorts of game-oriented-but-contradicting-how-real-life-it's-modeled-upon decisions in the design irk me too. There's 8 soldier classes in the game when I think, especially with 3 skills available per rank, 5 was more than enough, they just had to be revised from stock XCOM 2. Some of the differences should come from how the squad troopers are equiped, not written in stone as a soldier class and 7 perk choices. It makes XCOM soldiers too rigid and structured. They're a resistance movement and the special ops arm of it to boot. Flexibility and improvisation should be second nature.

Right, I was glad LW2 backed up on some of this to a large extent, but even in LW2, if I want to give a sub-machine gun to a sniper for a mission, why hard code the restriction (yes, I modded that out or ... in). It doesn't make sense. In the original again, you gave an auto-cannon to the guy with high strength because he could handle it and still move at a decent pace. That was natural and not even difficult to implement, so I do not quite understand the mentality of fixed classes in the way that Firaxis pushed it.

I'm okay with perks since humans do have different talents in real life (probably make them visible from the beginning of the game so players can pick the correct direction for the soldier), but they just need to be skill based.