Slayed by unrevealed enemies LeL

[sirburton]

As title. Isn't it a bit ridicolous that enemies far kms from you can shoot at you (and KILL you)
while they don't even appear as valid target for you to shoot?
I mean, If I can't fire at them, why the hell they can and kill me too?
Had an xcom on the top of some half hill, and some enemies (I truly don't know what enemy lol couldn't even see them, probably naja or sectoid) that were very very far from me and at an inferior height level, just killed me.

[Jadiel]

The aliens have been complaining about this 'bugged' behaviour from XCOM snipers for 5 years now. Squadsighters gonna Squadsight...

[sirburton]

The aliens have been complaining about this 'bugged' behaviour from XCOM snipers for 5 years now. Squadsighters gonna Squadsight...

Squadsight is a thing, crit hitting you thus piercing a rocky hill and your cover is something else. Look at this screen

You see the muton in the red circle? Well, the serpens that killed me was much behind that muton and I couldn't even zoom out enough to see the serpens and my poor xcom at the same time. Also, Idk if the pic is clear enough, as you can probably see I'm far and on a higher spot, so how the hell could this stupid serpens fire, totally pierce the high spot I'm standing on and crit hits me???
It's super ugly and against physics

[sirburton]

I've just retried this point of the missions, it is absurd. Xcom behind full cover, 3 sniper serpens far kms from him and they hitted and killed him, all 3 of them. What insane parameters do these sniper serpens have? It is beyond logic and physics
Anyone knows what ini should I edit and how in order to riduce aim or max distance for an efficient shot for these nasty serpens?

[Devon_v]

Squadsight range is infinite, and Death From Above negates the range penalties. You can do it too.

The LoS issue is inherent to the game, there`s a mod that fixes it somewhat called less silly lines of sight or something to that effect.

Naja have 75 aim, 80 for elites I believe.

[JulianSkies]

The LoS issue is inherent to the game, there`s a mod that fixes it somewhat called less silly lines of sight or something to that effect.

That particular mod, surprisingly, is already added to LW2. What it does is change one parameter in the game, by default generating the maps is multithreaded (or so I understand) in order to reduce loading times, however that causes a few issues with malformed terrain that give LoS when it shouldn't. You can disable that behaviour with a single .ini edit (which is what the mod does), LW2 added that edit to it's base already.

[azarga]

Do Advanced Troopers or Sergeants/Officers get Squadsight as well? Because on numerous occasions I had my backline Specialists shot at with Advent Magnetic weapons from out of sight of even my assault on the front on the same direction. I'm pretty sure some of closer Advent did have those Specialists in sight, so Squadsight could be in effect, but it was the weapon firing that confused me.

If it was plasma, yeah, I get it, it's serpents or mutons, but it had Magnetic rifle traces. I guessed that could be Scout, but I don't think I saw any Scouts on those missions.

[sirburton]

Squadsight range is infinite, and Death From Above negates the range penalties. You can do it too.

The LoS issue is inherent to the game, there`s a mod that fixes it somewhat called less silly lines of sight or something to that effect.

Naja have 75 aim, 80 for elites I believe.

What's Los? However I was on a upper position, the serpens was on a lower level, so no DfA for that serpens.
Pls tell me just if there easy any easy and bug-free way to make this ugly situation not happen anymore.
Should I just reduce the serpens sniper aim or edit the squad sight mechanic ?

[Jadiel]

Do Advanced Troopers or Sergeants/Officers get Squadsight as well? Because on numerous occasions I had my backline Specialists shot at with Advent Magnetic weapons from out of sight of even my assault on the front on the same direction. I'm pretty sure some of closer Advent did have those Specialists in sight, so Squadsight could be in effect, but it was the weapon firing that confused me.

If it was plasma, yeah, I get it, it's serpents or mutons, but it had Magnetic rifle traces. I guessed that could be Scout, but I don't think I saw any Scouts on those missions.

The only think I can think of that definitely has squadsight and uses mag weapons is Turrets. Could it have been those? I'm not sure about Archer MECs - they can definitely Micromissle at squadsight ranges, but not sure about regular shots.

[laestic]

For above : Serpens snipes have Squadsight.

Why do you complain, in the end ?

They have snipers, they can act like yours. Their advanced grenadiers can AoE stun you, their Sentinel can do covert fire...
If you can do it, they can. With more and more DE piling up, what do you expect ?

You can detect if there is a sniper in a pod, if so it should be a primary target.

[sirburton]

For above : Serpens snipes have Squadsight.

Why do you complain, in the end ?

They have snipers, they can act like yours. Their advanced grenadiers can AoE stun you, their Sentinel can do covert fire...
If you can do it, they can. With more and more DE piling up, what do you expect ?

You can detect if there is a sniper in a pod, if so it should be a primary target.

As said above, squad sight is a thing, crit hitting you from kms of distance and with absolutely no clear line of sight is something else. Grenadiers and sentinels are ok, but these serpens sniper are too op and unrealistic. Even full cover won't be enough.
And I cannot kill them immediatedly cause there is a fat flock of mutons and soldiers between me and them

[LordYanaek]

Hey, look. I have a buggy sniper who could crit this poor Shieldbearer in High Cover
(Explanation of High Cover Crit included)

What's Los? However I was on a upper position, the serpens was on a lower level, so no DfA for that serpens.

LoS is Line of Sight.
I don't think DfA needs you to be on higher ground to eliminate the long range penalty, it's just too different effects for the same perk representing sniper training. I'm not sure Aliens can have DfA though but even without it, you can hit at very long range, it's just less reliable but it does happen.

Pls tell me just if there easy any easy and bug-free way to make this ugly situation not happen anymore.

Yep there is. Kill the Najas quickly or disable them one way or another. They don't activate out of your LoS so try to kill them before they run away. If that fails, use some smoke cover to protect your troops and try to kill every alien with LoS on you (they can't fire at you if nobody sees you).

If you want to use the cheaty way; just lower their "offense" stat, editing squadsight would require more than simple ini edits.

[sirburton]

Hey, look. I have a buggy sniper who could crit this poor Shieldbearer in High Cover
(Explanation of High Cover Crit included)

What's Los? However I was on a upper position, the serpens was on a lower level, so no DfA for that serpens.

LoS is Line of Sight.
I don't think DfA needs you to be on higher ground to eliminate the long range penalty, it's just too different effects for the same perk representing sniper training. I'm not sure Aliens can have DfA though but even without it, you can hit at very long range, it's just less reliable but it does happen.

Pls tell me just if there easy any easy and bug-free way to make this ugly situation not happen anymore.

Yep there is. Kill the Najas quickly or disable them one way or another. They don't activate out of your LoS so try to kill them before they run away. If that fails, use some smoke cover to protect your troops and try to kill every alien with LoS on you (they can't fire at you if nobody sees you).

If you want to use the cheaty way; just lower their "offense" stat, editing squadsight would require more than simple ini edits.

yes but compare your screen with mine.
Your distance is realistic and enemy is visible. My enemy was not even visible and in the greyed out area and at different height levels.

[sirburton]

Tried for the fifth time I think, this time with smoke.
- full cover
- smoke
- kms of distance

Vs

3 sniper serpens

Results: 3 serpens firing, all of them successfully hurted (full dmg) my xcom = soldier dead

These cute serpens will be nicely nerfed as they deserv, .ini i'm coming <3

[JulianSkies]

Tried for the fifth time I think, this time with smoke.
- full cover
- smoke
- kms of distance

Vs

3 sniper serpens

Results: 3 serpens firing, all of them successfully hurted (full dmg) my xcom = soldier dead

These cute serpens will be nicely nerfed as they deserv, .ini i'm coming <3

You're reloading, right?
Sounds like you've ran into perhaps the one thing you cannot avoid in this game, RNG. The current RNG seed is giving those vipers extremely good rolls, so you're going to have to do something entirely different.

[sirburton]

Tried for the fifth time I think, this time with smoke.
- full cover
- smoke
- kms of distance

Vs

3 sniper serpens

Results: 3 serpens firing, all of them successfully hurted (full dmg) my xcom = soldier dead

These cute serpens will be nicely nerfed as they deserv, .ini i'm coming <3

You're reloading, right?
Sounds like you've ran into perhaps the one thing you cannot avoid in this game, RNG. The current RNG seed is giving those vipers extremely good rolls, so you're going to have to do something entirely different.

Reloading you mean, realoading the game continuously until it has a realistic outcome? Yes I'm doing it. What's rng ?

[LordYanaek]

RNG is Random Number Generator. It's the part of the program that "rolls the die" for your action.
The particularity of XCom's RNG is that it will always roll the same die after you reload so you can try as much as you want, if the RNG rolled a triple natural 20 for those vipers (don't know if you're familiar with D&D role playing game to understand what i mean), you can try to reload the same turn 100 times they will always get the same triple natural 20!

Getting hit in high cover and smoke is totally possible but unlikely, looks like you just got some bad luck on those three shots. At least i hoped it would reduce the chance of a crit, but again it can happen. 3 times in a row is really bad luck.

If you want to avoid the same result you'll have to get back a few turns and play different moves.

Also, i don't want to sound rude but what difficulty are you playing? If you need to reload continually you should probably drop it a level or two and try to play without reloads or minimal reloads. You'll learn much more by playing at low difficulty without (much) reloads that by reloading continually until you get a result you like.

[Devon_v]

Yeah, Firaxis programmed the game to use a fixed seed for the random numbers so that reloading the turn makes the same things happen. They did it to stop people from just reloading until things go their way. You need to either go back several turns and make different moves to change the seed conditions or you need to install the savescum mod that allows you to reroll the random seed.

Also, for what its worth, most snipers fire from well beyond normal engagement range. It's kinda what they do, and why they aren't just designated marksmen. You can train up your own snipers to ignore cover and shoot across the whole map as well. Go for all the perks that boost aim, not the ones that trade it for damage. Get a scope and a stock. It's quite possible to have 100% to hit into high cover three screens away.

[sirburton]

RNG is Random Number Generator. It's the part of the program that "rolls the die" for your action.
The particularity of XCom's RNG is that it will always roll the same die after you reload so you can try as much as you want, if the RNG rolled a triple natural 20 for those vipers (don't know if you're familiar with D&D role playing game to understand what i mean), you can try to reload the same turn 100 times they will always get the same triple natural 20!

Getting hit in high cover and smoke is totally possible but unlikely, looks like you just got some bad luck on those three shots. At least i hoped it would reduce the chance of a crit, but again it can happen. 3 times in a row is really bad luck.

If you want to avoid the same result you'll have to get back a few turns and play different moves.

Also, i don't want to sound rude but what difficulty are you playing? If you need to reload continually you should probably drop it a level or two and try to play without reloads or minimal reloads. You'll learn much more by playing at low difficulty without (much) reloads that by reloading continually until you get a result you like.

This is the first map where I'm actually having heavy difficulties....and just because of those 5 serpens sniping. Luckily this is probably just the second-third time i meet them. I'm playing on normal....or hard? Don't remember what I set. I usually reload the game only if I lose a key-role soldier.
I didn't know that mechanic had a name (rng), but I figured it out somehow. If I play things always in the same order it will always go the same way. But I figured it out that If I perform a Y action before the X action, X's outcome will be different.
However I solved that mess using mind control on a tough muton which served as decoy for those serpens and in the meantime I managed to get close enough to bomb them with acid.

Yeah, Firaxis programmed the game to use a fixed seed for the random numbers so that reloading the turn makes the same things happen. They did it to stop people from just reloading until things go their way. You need to either go back several turns and make different moves to change the seed conditions or you need to install the savescum mod that allows you to reroll the random seed.

Also, for what its worth, most snipers fire from well beyond normal engagement range. It's kinda what they do, and why they aren't just designated marksmen. You can train up your own snipers to ignore cover and shoot across the whole map as well. Go for all the perks that boost aim, not the ones that trade it for damage. Get a scope and a stock. It's quite possible to have 100% to hit into high cover three screens away.

Is crit scope useless on snipers since they fire from far? This always-100%-aim thing sounds hard to believe, especially on targets behind full cover. How do you achieve that?

[Devon_v]

RNG is Random Number Generator. It's the part of the program that "rolls the die" for your action.
The particularity of XCom's RNG is that it will always roll the same die after you reload so you can try as much as you want, if the RNG rolled a triple natural 20 for those vipers (don't know if you're familiar with D&D role playing game to understand what i mean), you can try to reload the same turn 100 times they will always get the same triple natural 20!

Getting hit in high cover and smoke is totally possible but unlikely, looks like you just got some bad luck on those three shots. At least i hoped it would reduce the chance of a crit, but again it can happen. 3 times in a row is really bad luck.

If you want to avoid the same result you'll have to get back a few turns and play different moves.

Also, i don't want to sound rude but what difficulty are you playing? If you need to reload continually you should probably drop it a level or two and try to play without reloads or minimal reloads. You'll learn much more by playing at low difficulty without (much) reloads that by reloading continually until you get a result you like.

This is the first map where I'm actually having heavy difficulties....and just because of those 5 serpens sniping. Luckily this is probably just the second-third time i meet them. I'm playing on normal....or hard? Don't remember what I set. I usually reload the game only if I lose a key-role soldier.
I didn't know that mechanic had a name (rng), but I figured it out somehow. If I play things always in the same order it will always go the same way. But I figured it out that If I perform a Y action before the X action, X's outcome will be different.
However I solved that mess using mind control on a tough muton which served as decoy for those serpens and in the meantime I managed to get close enough to bomb them with acid.

Yeah, Firaxis programmed the game to use a fixed seed for the random numbers so that reloading the turn makes the same things happen. They did it to stop people from just reloading until things go their way. You need to either go back several turns and make different moves to change the seed conditions or you need to install the savescum mod that allows you to reroll the random seed.

Also, for what its worth, most snipers fire from well beyond normal engagement range. It's kinda what they do, and why they aren't just designated marksmen. You can train up your own snipers to ignore cover and shoot across the whole map as well. Go for all the perks that boost aim, not the ones that trade it for damage. Get a scope and a stock. It's quite possible to have 100% to hit into high cover three screens away.

Is crit scope useless on snipers since they fire from far? This always-100%-aim thing sounds hard to believe, especially on targets behind full cover. How do you achieve that?

Crit is on the laser sight. The scope is aim.

You get a sniper with good base aim, so they'll get up to 80 or so. Go up on elevated terrain for +10, Damn Good Ground will give you +10, an Elite Scope will give you +15, Steady Weapon from an Elite Stock will give you +20. That right there puts you at 95% to hit into heavy cover. Holotargeting or Focus Fire from an ally puts you at 100%. Low Cover you'll negate all on your own. Anything standing in the open is just dead.

I like to use snipers in pairs. One will take a shot into low or no cover, then use their free action from Death from Above to holotarget for the other into high cover.

[gravityd9]

Laser Sight isnt useless on a sniper, but it's probably not the best choice, except maybe for a build around kubikiri. You can easily stack enough aim bonuses to have snipers hitting things through high cover from way across the map. Class Perks like Damn Good Ground and Death From Above to start, AWC Perks like Steady Hands and Combat Fitness if you're lucky enough to roll those for your sniper, plus the best scopes and stocks you have available on their weapon, and top it off with a PCS: Depth Perception.

I happened to get a recruit with exceptionally high aim, trained him into sniper, and he also happened to roll Combat Fitness, Steady Hands, and Bring 'Em On as his AWC offensive perks. Took Death From Above, Damn Good Ground, Deadshot, and Aggression among his soldier perks. He rarely has less than 100% to hit things even in high cover, and his crit is rarely below 50%, sometimes upwards of 90%, without a laser sight on his weapon.

As for the problem you had with the squadsighting snakes... another option is always trying to eliminate their source of squadsight.

[sirburton]

Crit is on the laser sight. The scope is aim.

You get a sniper with good base aim, so they'll get up to 80 or so. Go up on elevated terrain for +10, Damn Good Ground will give you +10, an Elite Scope will give you +15, Steady Weapon from an Elite Stock will give you +20. That right there puts you at 95% to hit into heavy cover. Holotargeting or Focus Fire from an ally puts you at 100%. Low Cover you'll negate all on your own. Anything standing in the open is just dead.

I like to use snipers in pairs. One will take a shot into low or no cover, then use their free action from Death from Above to holotarget for the other into high cover.

That looks a bit unpratical to me. To Use the stock means wasting a turn and it's not always possible to find a higher spot with line of sight.
Also since i'm playing in italian, I can't always recognize the skills' names in eng.
Death from above i'm quite sure it's the +aim and +crit when firing from higher spot,
but what about Damn Good Ground and Focus Fire?

[Devon_v]

Crit is on the laser sight. The scope is aim.

You get a sniper with good base aim, so they'll get up to 80 or so. Go up on elevated terrain for +10, Damn Good Ground will give you +10, an Elite Scope will give you +15, Steady Weapon from an Elite Stock will give you +20. That right there puts you at 95% to hit into heavy cover. Holotargeting or Focus Fire from an ally puts you at 100%. Low Cover you'll negate all on your own. Anything standing in the open is just dead.

I like to use snipers in pairs. One will take a shot into low or no cover, then use their free action from Death from Above to holotarget for the other into high cover.

That looks a bit unpratical to me. To Use the stock means wasting a turn and it's not always possible to find a higher spot with line of sight.
Also since i'm playing in italian, I can't always recognize the skills' names in eng.
Death from above i'm quite sure it's the +aim and +crit when firing from higher spot,
but what about Damn Good Ground and Focus Fire?

You use the stock before combat begins. With Squadsight you just find a good piece of terrain above the battlefield and wait there. Once combat begins you shoot something you can kill, then use the free action from Death from Above to steady the stock again. You have an autoloader equipped as well so that you can reload if needed without breaking the chain.

Damn Good Ground is actually the +aim/crit from higher ground. Death from Above is the rank 2 perk that removes Squadsight penalties and gives you a free action if you kill an enemy at a lower elevation. Focus Fire is the rank 1 officer perk that gives a cumulative +5 to hit for every shot taken at the target and ignores one point of its armor for a turn.

[Ithuriel]

Damn Good Ground is actually the +aim/crit from higher ground. Death from Above is the rank 2 perk that removes Squadsight penalties and gives you a free action if you kill an enemy at a lower elevation. Focus Fire is the rank 1 officer perk that gives a cumulative +5 to hit for every shot taken at the target and ignores one point of its armor for a turn.

Wait a second, is there a hidden buff? I thought Damn Good Ground gave +10 Aim/+10 Defense from higher ground.

[Devon_v]

Damn Good Ground is actually the +aim/crit from higher ground. Death from Above is the rank 2 perk that removes Squadsight penalties and gives you a free action if you kill an enemy at a lower elevation. Focus Fire is the rank 1 officer perk that gives a cumulative +5 to hit for every shot taken at the target and ignores one point of its armor for a turn.

Wait a second, is there a hidden buff? I thought Damn Good Ground gave +10 Aim/+10 Defense from higher ground.

No, I mistyped. That should say Defense.