PSA use assaults for stealth missions you can't lose.

[Icreatedthisforyou]

I see a lot of topics fly around regarding stealth, but none involving how strong assaults are on stealth missions. Specialists are nice for stealth missions since you have a higher chance of getting the hack, but for a stealth mission you can't lose ditch the specialist and take an assault as your number 2. Stop sacrificing rookies (or sq shinobi's) to kill VIP's you can just punch them in the face and run away. Let me explain:


It comes down to run and gun mechanics. If you have run and gun active the objective action (hacking or punching a VIP) will use the Run and Gun charge NOT a movement charge. This means you get both of your movement actions. It is actually LESS risky to punch a VIP in the face with an assault then trying to sacrifice a shinobi or a rookie. You don't need LOS, you just need to be within blue move range of the VIP. Combine it with a shinobi officer and you get a third movement with command AND you can Oscar mic all three moves if you just pile everything on the assault at the start of the turn.


I have seen a lot of streamers, and players like joinrbs and xwynns, just settle with killing VIPs. I see talks of people sacrificing rookies and sq shinobis, and I have wondered for a while why people do that. Then I realized people have probably almost never actually used assaults out side of shooting things in the face with a shot gun.


The same can be said for hacking the objectives. Yes the hacking rewards are nice, but often times this mission is more important, and in the case of a mission you can't lose using an assault to hack the objective is safer compared to using a specialist (and it means you don't need to risk a valuable high ranked specialist) just because of the free action assaults get.


I figured I would pass along a PSA for those of you that don't use assaults enough!

Bonus tip: Arc Pulsar (the CPL rank arc thrower talent) reduces hacking defense of the target by 20. It is one of the strongest perks in the tree just because of that, but it seems like most people don't realize that it has that functionality. Combine it with a specialist and you can reliably take control of pretty much any mec unit advent has.

[stefan3iii]

I didn't know about this mechanic, I assume it works that way with any actions that don't end your turn? Like if I Run&Gun and then fire a pistol shot or whatever, it eats the run and gun charge and leaves me with 2 more actions?

[LordYanaek]

Interesting.

That being said, for hack (except vehicle hacks where the chest is inside a closed vehicle as those are tricky), i tend to prefer a specialist and pre-calling the evac zone in LoS of the objective then wait with the specialist as far away as i can (blue move or yellow + command) then when the evac pops out, i move the specialist in LoS of the objective (and usually some alien pods), hack and evac on the same turn.

Good to know for VIP captures.

[Jadiel]

I didn't know about this mechanic, I assume it works that way with any actions that don't end your turn? Like if I Run&Gun and then fire a pistol shot or whatever, it eats the run and gun charge and leaves me with 2 more actions?

Yes, I think so. In my experience, Run&Gun basically works like Command, except that you can't use the additional action to move.

[gimrah]

Great tip, although not sure if it might be an exploit, since the description says "take an action after dashing".

I also like assaults on stealth / small squad missions. You tend to get overwatched if stuff gets activated as it seems like ayys can enter OW even on green alert. So lightning reflexes is really good for pulling it. (Rapid deployment grenadiers being the other good way. Interference on specialists is ok as it doesn't end the turn, but it does take an action and only negates one OW.)

Also, if it's small squad on a mission with few ayys (because you can't or won't use stealth), pairs of assaults are quite good for rapidly taking down small pods.

[KevlinTallfellow]

You can also build assaults specifically for this type of activity by giving them several defensive perks. In this way, assaults can get in, do what they went in to do, and get out, specifically *without* killing anything in the process.

Imagine how many commanders simply cannot fathom handing an assault a SMG to help them do their job better...

[Goldenmonkey]

Did I get this right?
beginning of turn
objective in reach of 1 blue move.
popp r&g, popp command
first action, go next to objective (move)
2nd action, knock out vip/hack (non-move)
pick up vip is a free action, correct?
3rd action run away
with double move?

I think this is not how run&gun should work, if I got that correctly. For me, run and gun was like ruunning as far as possible and still being able to shoot. This sounds like just another bonus action.

I only thought about run and gun like:
double move to position, fire weapon
with command, it would be, double move, move again and fire
or
ouble move, fire and move again

But even then, for hacking missions, i would prefer specialists, for the rewards.

[Icreatedthisforyou]

Did I get this right?
beginning of turn
objective in reach of 1 blue move.
popp r&g, popp command
first action, go next to objective (move)
2nd action, knock out vip/hack (non-move)
pick up vip is a free action, correct?
3rd action run away
with double move?

I think this is not how run&gun should work, if I got that correctly. For me, run and gun was like ruunning as far as possible and still being able to shoot. This sounds like just another bonus action.

I only thought about run and gun like:
double move to position, fire weapon
with command, it would be, double move, move again and fire
or
ouble move, fire and move again

But even then, for hacking missions, i would prefer specialists, for the rewards.

It is due to how run and gun and the game are coded, when you pop it you get an action but it can never be a movement action. It works with any non-turn ending actions so if you have whatever AWC perk causes pistol shots to not end turn that works the same way.

I actually only think it is stupidly broken when capturing VIPs and that 100% needs to be fixed. That is an easy fix just have the VIP have activation movements if someone is flanking them, so you can't blue move and punch them, you could still shinobi slash them just like activating on a pod with a shinobi.

Outside of that I don't have an issue with the mechanics of it. As you said taking a specialist to hack is almost always better because you can usually do it safe enough. The only time it really comes into play is when you get Dark Event counters with low infiltration time, assaults at least give you a chance at countering them. For rescues/jail breaks you still need wait on the people which is what really slows you down on those missions for leaving.

Same thing with popping run and gun to get extra pistol shots. It allows the assault to be useful in larger fire fights without pulling excess things, and they can't do it every turn. AND it requires additional AWC requirements. AND it requires you to have at least decent aim on your assault to be worth while, and you still can't use turn ending actions. PLUS it gives up their ability to shoot someone in their face for all their health, which is kinda important to an assault. So it isn't like their isn't an opportunity cost to all that.



So like I said it is broken as shit for punching VIPs in the face. That needs to be fixed. Other than that I don't really have an issue with how it works, assaults are so under utilized by most people they it is not like they will suddenly pop up everywhere, it just means people may not actively avoid them in larger fire fight situations. But there are a lot of opportunity costs to using run and gun to not run THEN gun.

[profDEADPOOL]

Yeah this is really just an exploit I don't think a lot of people realize can happen because the description of Run and Gun doesn't sound like it gives you a non-movement action that is consumed by any non-movement action. The description makes it appear like you get a bonus action after dashing.

This is also really dumb because if you get Run and Gun from the AWC on a Sniper with DFA then you can Fire and get a kill>get the DFA action>Activate Run and Gun>and now you have another two actions to fire a second sniper rifle shot.

Rangers with Run and Gun from the AWC can shoot 3 times(4 if you took Rapid Fire and use it for the final action)

etc.

Run and Gun does something completely different from what its description says it should do and that is not something everyone knows.

[nightwyrm]

I actually only think it is stupidly broken when capturing VIPs and that 100% needs to be fixed. That is an easy fix just have the VIP have activation movements if someone is flanking them, so you can't blue move and punch them, you could still shinobi slash them just like activating on a pod with a shinobi.

Doesn't this make it impossible to actually capture VIPs?

In any case, I don't see this as that big of an issue when a Shinobi with Covert and Ghostwalker can reduce sight range so much that he can stand right next to a VIP and not break concealment.

Kidnapping instead of killing VIPs are hard enough as it is without having to chase the VIP across the map.

[Jadiel]

This is also really dumb because if you get Run and Gun from the AWC on a Sniper with DFA then you can Fire and get a kill>get the DFA action>Activate Run and Gun>and now you have another two actions to fire a second sniper rifle shot.

Snipers can't get Run and Gun from the AWC.

[darkerevent]

Doesn't this make it impossible to actually capture VIPs?

In any case, I don't see this as that big of an issue when a Shinobi with Covert and Ghostwalker can reduce sight range so much that he can stand right next to a VIP and not break concealment.

Kidnapping instead of killing VIPs are hard enough as it is without having to chase the VIP across the map.

I think they were suggesting having the VIP do a pod-activation scamper away from the first person to approach. Though that doesn't really change much, just means you have to turn it into a two-person endeavor.

As to the topic in general -- to be honest, I kind of like that R&G works the way that it does in LW2, and I would rather not see it nerfed, as it can contribute to giving the assault its unique combat niche. That said, I only just found out about the mechanic two days ago due to Xwynns' videos, so I think that if it's going to remain as is (with the effect of "gain an extra non-movement action this turn, and no action is turn-ending"), then its in-game description should be updated to reflect that.

[nightwyrm]

Doesn't this make it impossible to actually capture VIPs?

In any case, I don't see this as that big of an issue when a Shinobi with Covert and Ghostwalker can reduce sight range so much that he can stand right next to a VIP and not break concealment.

Kidnapping instead of killing VIPs are hard enough as it is without having to chase the VIP across the map.

I think they were suggesting having the VIP do a pod-activation scamper away from the first person to approach. Though that doesn't really change much, just means you have to turn it into a two-person endeavor.

As to the topic in general -- to be honest, I kind of like that R&G works the way that it does in LW2, and I would rather not see it nerfed, as it can contribute to giving the assault its unique combat niche. That said, I only just found out about the mechanic two days ago due to Xwynns' videos, so I think that if it's going to remain as is (with the effect of "gain an extra non-movement action this turn, and no action is turn-ending"), then its in-game description should be updated to reflect that.

If you're referring to the video where Xwynns RnG'd to attack some Archons, he actually made a mistake there. Shooting is still turn ending, RnG does nothing to change that. RnG is useful for hacking and punching VIPs because those actions aren't turn ending.

[Jadiel]

If you're referring to the video where Xwynns RnG'd to attack some Archons, he actually made a mistake there. Shooting is still turn ending, RnG does nothing to change that. RnG is useful for hacking and punching VIPs because those actions aren't turn ending.

And actually, that may be the best way to fix it. If you make subdue turn-ending, the RnG problem goes away. It shouldn't affect anyone other than Assaults, as it's unlikely you're going to run and stand next to the VIP so you can subdue then move next turn.

[darkerevent]

If you're referring to the video where Xwynns RnG'd to attack some Archons, he actually made a mistake there. Shooting is still turn ending, RnG does nothing to change that. RnG is useful for hacking and punching VIPs because those actions aren't turn ending.

Ahh, I see. That makes sense.

I think I'm thinking of the video where he R&Ged into a hack-and-run (blue move in, hack, yellow move out).

[Icreatedthisforyou]

If you're referring to the video where Xwynns RnG'd to attack some Archons, he actually made a mistake there. Shooting is still turn ending, RnG does nothing to change that. RnG is useful for hacking and punching VIPs because those actions aren't turn ending.

I like it, this is a way better fix than what I suggested.

[profDEADPOOL]

This is also really dumb because if you get Run and Gun from the AWC on a Sniper with DFA then you can Fire and get a kill>get the DFA action>Activate Run and Gun>and now you have another two actions to fire a second sniper rifle shot.

Snipers can't get Run and Gun from the AWC.

They aren't supposed to be able to yes.

But they kinda can. Might have been an issue with the AWC like how resistance members could get melee perks and other ones that made no sense.

[stefan3iii]

My god, so I can in one turn:
Close Combat Specialist a free shot
Run And Gun - Fan Fire or Clutch Shot with a pistol
Then take another action? Including shooting again.

Assaults may be the new best pistoliers.

edit: Yes, meant Close Encounters not Close Combat Specialist

[Zyrrashijn]

CCS disables RnG upon triggering and vice versa.

Edit: Sorry, thats CE, but i'm sure you were referring to that anyway. CCS is a reaction skill.

[nightwyrm]

CCS disables RnG upon triggering and vice versa.

Edit: Sorry, thats CE, but i'm sure you were referring to that anyway. CCS is a reaction skill.

Actually CE does not disable RnG. RnG disables CE, but you can CE -> RnG.

[Goumindong]

CCS disables RnG upon triggering and vice versa.

Edit: Sorry, thats CE, but i'm sure you were referring to that anyway. CCS is a reaction skill.

Not anymore. If you CE you can RnG afterwards. You just cannot RnG then CE afterwards.

[Zyrrashijn]

Well, i learned something new, i guess. I'm sorry, didn't intend to spread false information.

[archangel]

Doesn't this make it impossible to actually capture VIPs?

In any case, I don't see this as that big of an issue when a Shinobi with Covert and Ghostwalker can reduce sight range so much that he can stand right next to a VIP and not break concealment.

Kidnapping instead of killing VIPs are hard enough as it is without having to chase the VIP across the map.

I think they were suggesting having the VIP do a pod-activation scamper away from the first person to approach. Though that doesn't really change much, just means you have to turn it into a two-person endeavor.

As to the topic in general -- to be honest, I kind of like that R&G works the way that it does in LW2, and I would rather not see it nerfed, as it can contribute to giving the assault its unique combat niche. That said, I only just found out about the mechanic two days ago due to Xwynns' videos, so I think that if it's going to remain as is (with the effect of "gain an extra non-movement action this turn, and no action is turn-ending"), then its in-game description should be updated to reflect that.

If you're referring to the video where Xwynns RnG'd to attack some Archons, he actually made a mistake there. Shooting is still turn ending, RnG does nothing to change that. RnG is useful for hacking and punching VIPs because those actions aren't turn ending.

Well you could probably also use his medkit as that is a non turn ending action.