Shadow Ops(LW2)

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Ithuriel
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:18 pm

Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by Ithuriel »

Has anybody played around with this mod much? I might give it a run after I finish my current campaign- how's the class balance?
Solomani
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by Solomani »

I have not, but I've been curious too. Once I actually win a damned game, I'll definitely try it. Though I will probably play with both lw2 classes and shadow ops. The holo target scout seems like a cool idea.

S.
DuskNite
Posts: 11
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Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by DuskNite »

TL;DR: Juggernaut is useless because of Dragoon. Dragoon is damn OP. Every other class is between "Good"(Infantry/Survivalist/Hunter) and "Eh..."(Scrapper)

Recon is more useful in terms of scouting, but with that, also allows for less room of error. He has no way to reconceal until GSGT, meaning that if he is revealed, he will need a Dragoon with Stealth Protocol to save his ass. Even then, you're sacrificing Air Strike, which is the best cover destruction ability.

(Edit: Wait, never mind, you actually do get Conceal at SSGT. Didnt notice that for some reason.... Well, that does allow him to solo stealth missions early, and clear them easily thanks to 2x conceal at GSGT)

Combat Engineer is halfway between odd and epic. On one side, he can totally destroy cover with frag grenades, which is epic. On the other side, Breach is basically one ability that has minimal synergy with all his other abilities, but is still one core skill you will use all the time. Regardless, he works very well as an assault with no Trench Gun.

Hunter is... very offense oriented. He has the ability to conceal himself almost all the time, and abuses the bonuses from that. There is almost no situation where Hunters are useless, but it does not mean that they are ideal for them either, since they are locked to Sniper Rifles. Most of the time, i feel that I should Fade instead of fight that enemy that runs close to get LOS on my Hunter, simply because when you start slashing, you lose your positioning advantage. Still, since most of his abilities arent weapon locked, he can almost use all his abilities to full effect. Almost.

Infantry feels like an entirely different Ranger. Both Rangers and Infantry feel like "Rookie+", with not much specialties other than shooting. That being said, Infantry's support side feels more powerful in many ways. Ready for Anything allows you to start a fight from concealment with 2 kills, one from the shot, one from the overwatch right after, thanks to focus. Area Suppression is simply area suppression. Nothing much to say about area suppression. Zone of Control though, feels like a overdrive version of Kill Zone, and is totally broken when you set it up well. The other side isnt crap too. Light Em Up is... Light Em Up. Good Eye prevents grazes (you can still miss). Full Auto is an instant Sectopod kill. Too bad I dont have DLC. I would love to instakill Berserker queen lol.

Juggernaut is basically Technical. Except that you are locked to cannon, making him worse. Also, he is not compactible with Micro Missiles mod, if you use it. That being said, he isn't bad, but there is just no reason to use him over technical... Although he does shoot better, slightly. Thing is, he can never be a tank due to a reason i will state later.

Scrapper is set between "This is a weird class" and "This is a very weird class". He's a melee specialist, but he uses a knives, but knives do not have a Tier 3, making melee builds fall of VERY fast. Except for Bull rush, which is broken in itself because with enough aim, you can permanently lock down one unit that gets too close. Any unit. (Maybe except for mechanicals). The other side isn't too good either though. It feels like an inferior Assault without that epic Street Sweeper that makes the whole process of training him worth it. Rupture is good and all... but it doesn't feel like it's needed. You get enough crit from CCS, Laser Sight and flanking anyways...

Survivalist is your go-to defensive gunner. You either set him back away from everything and overwatch everything to death, or you lock down one target and brutally murder it. This One's Mine gives 50 Crit to the target, and 50 Defense against the target. And with just the T1 perks, you can constantly force the target to panic, or shoot it once per turn (works like a free overwatch every 3 turns). He gets Kill Zone, with squad sight. He also has access to Serial. If you love sharpshooters, this is your alternative for a Full Shadow Ops run. Do note, though, that he does not have DFA. But then, nor does Hunter (Hunter has implacable instead of DFA, which is far inferior imo)

Dragoon... I left this to the last... He's basically the class that you bring as a support every game for one reason or another, but it's only because because he's so bullshit. He's epic at stealth, epic as a tank, epic as a shooter (without area suppression until quite late tho). Tank gives him bonus armor, Shields Up gives everyone 1-3 extra ablative hp, even for escort missions (not rescue tho). Aegis reduces damage when shields are up, and if you think shit is coming, just pop stasis field. You can even use it offensively. Have everyone take massive risky shots, and then just stasis field and watch your enemies do... stuff. His offensive side is covered with Barrage and Heavy Weapons too, although you can also shoot... I guess. His tanky side aside (lol). Covert + ECM = 30% less detection, and you get them by SSGT. Reverse Engineering is basically the Mod "Hack Plus". Pair it with Full Override means that during late game, you can master any Mec 100% of the time. And Stealth Protocol... 2 free conceals that you can use globally to anyone. Vanish... when you are out of sight of every enemy, you get a free conceal...
Last edited by DuskNite on Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 422
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Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by gimrah »

I've played with the original non-LW versions of these.

They were good and played quite differently to vanilla or LW classes. Perhaps not as balanced as LW2 is (or at least will be) but lots of fun.
cerebrawl
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Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by cerebrawl »

DuskNite wrote:TL;DR: Juggernaut is useless because of Dragoon. Dragoon is damn OP. Every other class is between "Good"(Infantry/Survivalist/Hunter) and "Eh..."(Scrapper)

Juggernaut is basically Technical. Except that you are locked to cannon, making him worse. Also, he is not compactible with Micro Missiles mod, if you use it. That being said, he isn't bad, but there is just no reason to use him over technical... Although he does shoot better, slightly. Thing is, he can never be a tank due to a reason i will state later.
I gotta say I disagree with the Juggernaut being an inferior technical, quite the opposite I feel like it's a straight upgrade to the technical. Mind you I'm no big fan of technicals to begin with. Better rocketeer, worse flamer, but importantly much better at shooting things. It's a hybrid of the technical and the gunner, with a possibility to pick up squadsight and do some sniping.
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3tamatulg
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Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by 3tamatulg »

Currently in October of a Shadows Ops + LW2 classes run

The classes are great, but some are underpowered and some are overpowered.

Hacker: Dragoon. Gets a perk where you get a permanent bonus to hacking stat every time you succeed. Nuff said.

Sniper: Still the DFA Sharpshooter. I have a snap shooting Hunter who's pretty cool though - Lightning Reflexes and Low Profile are really useful. Survivalists just don't get enough accuracy bonuses to make the other parts reliable. Fearsome is a very entertaining mechanic though.

Scouting: Recon displaces the Shinobi with the Tracking perk (see enemies who aren't in directly LoS but are in LoS range) and is more useful while staying cloaked with the Holotargeter.

Infiltration: Shinobi still best here thanks to early Ghostwalker perk. Dragoon also amazing with Covert. My 2 man stealth cheese teams are Shinobi + Dragoon.

Rocketeer: Juggernaut better than Technical here. Gets +1 rocket as a higher level perk after a balance patch.

Suppression: Still the Gunner.

Guaranteed damage: Here's where it's most interesting. Infantry with the Tactician perk are amazing. Guaranteed 2+ damage is so great for picking off low HP enemies. I think that should be the class' basic perk, it's so distinct from any of the others. Gunners still win everything with Hail of Bullets though.

Medic: A few of the Shadow Ops classes have 'extra medkit uses' but I find that the Specialist still excels here with Revival Protocol.

Grenades: I split this into 3 categories.
Damage nades: Combat Engi (Full kit and Fastball early on)
Flashes: Grenadier (with all the right side perks)
Smoke: Combat Engi (Smoke and Mirrors, Dense Smoke)

Overall I really enjoy the extra variety and think that the Shadow Ops classes fill their own niches separate from the base LW2 classes. I don't like Scrappers, Bull Rush is a fun idea but the game is basically dontmoveforward.exe because of the pod popping mechanics, so they end up being a liability. Survivalist and Hunter I think do the Sharpshooter's job but worse.

This isn't meant to be authoritative, this is just how I feel about the classes in this playthrough. I feel like I was really wrong about Technicals in base LW2 (after learning how the scatter actually works) so make of this what you will. It's entirely possible that I'm missing some really strong synergies.
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rifleman
Posts: 49
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Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by rifleman »

Guys, author of Shadow Ops need your freeback to improve classes balance. You could post the freeback in the balance discussions thread.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/file ... 670509487/

Thanks a lot! :lol:
DuskNite
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:14 am

Re: Shadow Ops(LW2)

Post by DuskNite »

cerebrawl wrote:
DuskNite wrote:TL;DR: Juggernaut is useless because of Dragoon. Dragoon is damn OP. Every other class is between "Good"(Infantry/Survivalist/Hunter) and "Eh..."(Scrapper)

Juggernaut is basically Technical. Except that you are locked to cannon, making him worse. Also, he is not compactible with Micro Missiles mod, if you use it. That being said, he isn't bad, but there is just no reason to use him over technical... Although he does shoot better, slightly. Thing is, he can never be a tank due to a reason i will state later.
I gotta say I disagree with the Juggernaut being an inferior technical, quite the opposite I feel like it's a straight upgrade to the technical. Mind you I'm no big fan of technicals to begin with. Better rocketeer, worse flamer, but importantly much better at shooting things. It's a hybrid of the technical and the gunner, with a possibility to pick up squadsight and do some sniping.
The reason I hate Juggernauts is mainly because of their cannons. I tend to use Technicals as flamers, but Juggernaut does it far worse is many cases due to 1> Lack of mobility, and 2> Detection.

Also it's very annoying to me that Juggernaut is REALLY half-assed when going for Rockets/Flame. All my high-aim units are already Shooters. I dont have that many left to spare for Juggernaut/Technicals. I tend to use them as tanks, but the levels where I dont have essential perks, (CPL, SSGT, GSGT) only has one ability that helps that, and it's at the last rank, and requires you to kill a target at a point where you dont really have a chance of doing so.

(Ok the last update a few days ago which i didn't notice actually made the rocket path significantly better, so I would have to take back what I said previously. I still dont like how you can't use SMGs though, as they help you so much in getting into better positions)

Of course, he is far better offensively, as a semi-gunner-technical. I just dont have the men to put him in that position, which is why I said that I have no reason to use him over technical (Better flame skills, Equivalent tank or slightly better)

Edit: (Forgot to mention why I said Juggernaut is useless because of Dragoon) Back to the point of me using Technicals as tanks, with Dragoon being the obvious best tank, neither Technicals or Juggernauts are useful in that role anymore, and with Juggernaut being half-assed, I would use Technicals instead of Juggernauts.
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