The missions are all the same

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steecazzi
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The missions are all the same

Post by steecazzi » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:45 am

First thanks for the immense work done .. but the missions are all similar free the hostages ... ... save the VIP escort the VIPs ... will be more than 100 but they are also boring. If possible try to vary in the future, thank you.
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chrisb
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by chrisb » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:56 pm

In time they will. The mod is new and still being balanced in many ways. The upcoming patch is looking to include a new mission called Smash and Grab. There's a preview available from xwynns one of the quality assurance testers. Available here.

Also there are upcoming changes to the way these missions operate. Not a lot of details are out yet but apparently they have more incentive to fight them instead of stealth, or at least I hope they do. We shall see.

dstar3k
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by dstar3k » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:23 pm

chrisb wrote:In time they will. The mod is new and still being balanced in many ways. The upcoming patch is looking to include a new mission called Smash and Grab. There's a preview available from xwynns one of the quality assurance testers. Available here.

Also there are upcoming changes to the way these missions operate. Not a lot of details are out yet but apparently they have more incentive to fight them instead of stealth, or at least I hope they do. We shall see.
I will note that the "Recover Item from Advent Vehicle" missions are damned near un-stealthable now, at least if you want to use a specialist to do the hack; the last few I've done have had at least one pod which stays directly around and behind the truck, and another pod that stays near, even on Extremely Light and Rookie. The only one I managed to truly stealth I got lucky enough that they moved so that the truck itself and the corner of a building blocked LOS respectively.

And I at least always use a specialist, because the chance for Enemy Protocol is too good to pass up. (I have one specialist in my current campaign who got _four_ successful Enemy Protocols out of four chances by Sgt. -- and I didn't cheat and reload if he failed, either.)

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by chrisb » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:39 pm

dstar3k wrote:
chrisb wrote:In time they will. The mod is new and still being balanced in many ways. The upcoming patch is looking to include a new mission called Smash and Grab. There's a preview available from xwynns one of the quality assurance testers. Available here.

Also there are upcoming changes to the way these missions operate. Not a lot of details are out yet but apparently they have more incentive to fight them instead of stealth, or at least I hope they do. We shall see.
I will note that the "Recover Item from Advent Vehicle" missions are damned near un-stealthable now, at least if you want to use a specialist to do the hack; the last few I've done have had at least one pod which stays directly around and behind the truck, and another pod that stays near, even on Extremely Light and Rookie. The only one I managed to truly stealth I got lucky enough that they moved so that the truck itself and the corner of a building blocked LOS respectively.

And I at least always use a specialist, because the chance for Enemy Protocol is too good to pass up. (I have one specialist in my current campaign who got _four_ successful Enemy Protocols out of four chances by Sgt. -- and I didn't cheat and reload if he failed, either.)
I use a shinobi to open the door with ghostwalker, then wait for a window to move my specialist into the truck. LOS any pods and throw the evac out the back then close the door. Wait for the evac timer, hack the terminal and move to evac out.

Only RNG part is everything is on yellow alert when you hack, so activating can cause shots. You can use a combination of smoke + aid protocol. Pop the smoke a turn or two before the evac timer hits, it lasts for 3. If shinobi has command you can hack > aid > move and have 45+ defense against yellow alert shots.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by dstar3k » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:58 pm

chrisb wrote:I use a shinobi to open the door with ghostwalker, then wait for a window to move my specialist into the truck. LOS any pods and throw the evac out the back then close the door. Wait for the evac timer, hack the terminal and move to evac out.

Only RNG part is everything is on yellow alert when you hack, so activating can cause shots. You can use a combination of smoke + aid protocol. Pop the smoke a turn or two before the evac timer hits, it lasts for 3. If shinobi has command you can hack > aid > move and have 45+ defense against yellow alert shots.
I play with the True Concealment mod... and the last such mission I had I took _39_ turns. At no point was there a window to hack without aliens in LOS; the close-in pod literally walked the same two paths for the entire 36 turns I could see them... start directly behind the truck, walk one turn's distance away, walk back, with two seperate paths to choose from, neither of which took them out of LOS.

I'm not actually complaining; in the future, I'll be treating these as combat-required missions, which are honestly more fun. I'm just pointing out that they can't properly be stealthed if you want a specialist to do the hack (if not, you can just have a shinobi with conceal do the hack, throw the evac flare, and then close the doors which hopefully but not always thanks to bugs (or is it never? In which case you conceal and hide behind the vault) blocks line of sight while you wait for the skyranger to arrive).

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by chrisb » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:04 pm

Door block line of sight, but it is buggy. If your soldier is 'peeking' then he is still visible. I typically use TTC to fix this, or just move away from the door.

The strat of putting the specialist in the van doesn't always work, but I have about a 90% success rate with it.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by steecazzi » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:14 pm

a new mission? appreciate it ... but not enough, so after having played 100 similar missions ... finally one different .. Great !!! But sorry friends, what is the point: 1) A much longer campaign, running for 100 to 120 missions on average ... was enough to realize when 10 fine! 2.6 Gb have so much stuff.
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darkerevent
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by darkerevent » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:30 pm

To the OP:

I'm not sure how far you played, but I should mention, the mission variety usually increases once you get past the initial two or three months of the campaign.

You will start seeing retaliation, intel raids, ambush troop column, supply raid, UFO assaults, and of course the storyline missions and so on.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by Goldenmonkey » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:25 am

steecazzi wrote:First thanks for the immense work done .. but the missions are all similar free the hostages ... ... save the VIP escort the VIPs ... will be more than 100 but they are also boring. If possible try to vary in the future, thank you.
There is a mod, that adds new mission types to LW2, I haven't tried it though.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by Goldenmonkey » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:27 am

dstar3k wrote: I play with the True Concealment mod... and the last such mission I had I took _39_ turns. At no point was there a window to hack without aliens in LOS; the close-in pod literally walked the same two paths for the entire 36 turns I could see them... start directly behind the truck, walk one turn's distance away, walk back, with two seperate paths to choose from, neither of which took them out of LOS.
Do you have gotcha again? Here is what I (and I stole that from Xwynns) do every time, so far without any failure (granted, I don't have done more than 50 missions in LW2).

You need: 1 specialist 1 shinobi. Preferably with high mobility, nothing else matters
shinobi should be an officer with oscar mike and, of course, ghost walker
Equipment: smg and maybe some armor. nothing else.

Check a tile, where the specialist can hack from a distance
find a place where you can hide without concealment
with the specialist, throw the evac onto the tile where you can hack. Be careful not to activate when you throw it
hide till evac is up
Run in, hack, evac. Any activation doesn't matter at this point
The shinobi can evac later, if necessary
Sometimes, as has been said, the shinobi needs ghost walker to open a door first.
With only an smg and no other equipment, oscar mike and 3 moves, the specialist can basically run across half the map and back.

If there is no way to throw the evac on a tile from where you can hack, throw it further away. OM and Command the spec, run to where you can hack, hack, run to evac.

I have not seen any mission, where this was impossible.

Autoclave
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by Autoclave » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:39 am

What they need to do is include other biomes for lib 1 - lib 3 missions. The advent city biome gets stale real fast. It reminds me of the forest UFO missions from xcomEU

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by steecazzi » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:02 am

Thanks Goldenmonkey finally answer the question! Gotcha Again, Triple Enemies, Additional Mission Types LW2 Edition, ABA2 etc .. I tried everything but be careful to use too many mission.in files, the game goes sometimes do not start even crash. we all know friends, it takes hours to try and try again the compatibility between the "mods"! I play from February 5, 2016 I have tried everything. Ok darkerevent you're right ... You will start seeing retaliation, intel raids, ambush troop column, supply raids, assaults UFO ... but then again! ... seeing retaliation, intel raids, ambush troop column, supply raids, assaults UFO ... I repeat thanks for the effort and the incredible work but everything is repetitive.
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by Veneficus » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:06 pm

Once I level up a shinobi a couple of times and get a skull mine, taking a specialist on a stealth hack mission comes with more problems than rewards.

I also try to recruit and spec out a stealth shinobi with a high initial hacking skill, with not created equal, and hidden potential, recruiting a rooke with between an average 8-11 hack is not that hard.

From that point on I use double shinobi, one to hack, the other to be the officer with Oscar Mike and Command.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by chrisb » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:02 pm

steecazzi wrote:Thanks Goldenmonkey finally answer the question! Gotcha Again, Triple Enemies, Additional Mission Types LW2 Edition, ABA2 etc .. I tried everything but be careful to use too many mission.in files, the game goes sometimes do not start even crash. we all know friends, it takes hours to try and try again the compatibility between the "mods"! I play from February 5, 2016 I have tried everything. Ok darkerevent you're right ... You will start seeing retaliation, intel raids, ambush troop column, supply raids, assaults UFO ... but then again! ... seeing retaliation, intel raids, ambush troop column, supply raids, assaults UFO ... I repeat thanks for the effort and the incredible work but everything is repetitive.
Of course there's repetition. Why would you expect every mission to be unique? This seems like a very odd thing to complain about in a strategy game.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by fowlJ » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:19 pm

steecazzi wrote:Thanks Goldenmonkey finally answer the question! Gotcha Again, Triple Enemies, Additional Mission Types LW2 Edition, ABA2 etc..
Wait, are you saying that you are trying to use ABA2, Triple Enemies, and Long War 2, all at the same time? Because none of those mods work together, you can only use one. If you're seeing any kind of strange behaviour, that could be why.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by Hero_Weasel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:36 am

Goldenmonkey wrote:
dstar3k wrote: I play with the True Concealment mod... and the last such mission I had I took _39_ turns. At no point was there a window to hack without aliens in LOS; the close-in pod literally walked the same two paths for the entire 36 turns I could see them... start directly behind the truck, walk one turn's distance away, walk back, with two seperate paths to choose from, neither of which took them out of LOS.
Do you have gotcha again? Here is what I (and I stole that from Xwynns) do every time, so far without any failure (granted, I don't have done more than 50 missions in LW2).

You need: 1 specialist 1 shinobi. Preferably with high mobility, nothing else matters
shinobi should be an officer with oscar mike and, of course, ghost walker
Equipment: smg and maybe some armor. nothing else.

Check a tile, where the specialist can hack from a distance
find a place where you can hide without concealment
with the specialist, throw the evac onto the tile where you can hack. Be careful not to activate when you throw it
hide till evac is up
Run in, hack, evac. Any activation doesn't matter at this point
The shinobi can evac later, if necessary
Sometimes, as has been said, the shinobi needs ghost walker to open a door first.
With only an smg and no other equipment, oscar mike and 3 moves, the specialist can basically run across half the map and back.

If there is no way to throw the evac on a tile from where you can hack, throw it further away. OM and Command the spec, run to where you can hack, hack, run to evac.

I have not seen any mission, where this was impossible.
Good write up, I made a video of this process, I havent made my duo Specialist & Shinobi video yet. But I have made the solo specialist video that shows the process you described.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=IQZqrAnImIU

My only regret is calling the technique "Smash & Grab" and then that becoming an actual mission type after I made the video.

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by Goldenmonkey » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:49 am

Hero_Weasel wrote:
My only regret is calling the technique "Smash & Grab" and then that becoming an actual mission type after I made the video.
Sue them ;-)

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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by steecazzi » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:50 pm

...Wait, are you saying that you are trying to use ABA2, Triple Enemies, and Long War 2, all at the same time?... You believe the flying donkeys?

Seriously, now I'm trying to "896186653_Fireborns_vanilla_missions" mod, came up to the viper queen mission and looks interesting. Never got to use the "846087073_Additional_Mission_Types__LW2_Edition" mod because the Triple Enemy mod does not work.
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steecazzi
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by steecazzi » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:55 pm

... Of course there's repetition. Why would you expect every mission to be unique? This seems like a very odd thing to complain about in a strategy game ...

It will be strange for you, perhaps you have not understood my question. This is about 100 more missions and when they actually are? Tell me.
You talk about strategy games? For example, if you played C & C4 will know that the single player missions are 7 (few) what sense does it multiply it by 10? In 1993, when we were playing together with friends Syndicate of Amiga 500 the missions were 14 point!
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by chrisb » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:25 pm

That's why they called it LongWar not ShortWar. The people who enjoy the game, like that it's not over in 5 hours. If I had it my way, it would be 200+ missions long. Imagine how much you could complain then! :D

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steecazzi
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by steecazzi » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:16 am

Clear as the sun! So the message you have programmers to strategic games is this: Create 10 missions then multiply by 200 so tough until 2025 !!! My critism just the repetition of the same! I look for tips to add variety to the game does not go crazy. If you like to spend hours doing the same things to me instead it boring, differences of opinion.
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chrisb
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Re: The missions are all the same

Post by chrisb » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:17 pm

True, although it is on the developers to keep the game interesting if they are going to use repetition. I mean this for any game being made. It's a choice between making every level unique and making few of them, or making templates that get re-used and allowing for some means of uniqueness through the template itself.

I guess for me I'm just used to the way Long War 1 was. Back then XCOM had no semi-randomized maps, all the maps were static. They did at least have varied spawn points on those maps, but eventually you seen everything. Every mission was 'kill them all'. Some missions had other mechanics involved, but at the end it was still kill them all. And really that was more of a limitation of what they were able to do given that XCOM 1 was not designed to be modded at all.

I also like to keep in mind that LW2 is still very new and only has a small team. I expect a certain level of repetition, so I wouldn't say it's necessarily a difference of opinion, so much as a difference of expectations.

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