What is the idea behind Crit Rangers?

[Autoclave]

Can anyone explain me the concept behind the infantry perks for ranger? I see some crit here and there but it just doesn't feel consistent enough. Unless shooting at exposed targets, it's very difficult to push crit high enough. Let's do the math:
1. Locked On, second shot +10 crit
2. Aggression, suppose we got 6 enemies: +30 crit
3. Elite Laser Sight: +15 crit
4. Executioner: +10 crit
5. Talon Rounds: +10 crit
6. Get some Officer perk: +20 crit

So total max crit chance while shooting at a target in cover, wounded with less than 50% hp, while also having 6 enemies in sight, and officer using 1 AP to grant +20 Crit chance: 95%! Do you understand just how impossible are these conditions to fulfill consistently?
Oh and you have to hope that taking laser sight instead of scope will not punish your to hit chance with some unlucky graze.

Now exposed tragets have 40% crit chance, but I find it underwhelming to take class dedicated to killing some exposed targets.
So what am i missing? Because right now my standard Ranger is
1. Walk fire
2. Locked On
3. Cool Under pressure
4. Executioner
5. Ever Vigilant
6. Rapid Reaction
7. Rupture/Combat Fitness (if I got a gunner with Rupture, I take Combat Fitness instead).

I know grazing fire helps with rapid reaction, but I rarely miss my Overwatch shots as I heavily focus on reaction fire aim.

[Zyrrashijn]

Don't forget that Rupture is an Auto-Crit now / will be a nigh-Autocrit in 1.3.

[Dwarfling]

I see them as less of a "crit" soldier and more of a "shoot a lot" soldier, where you can consistently kill stuff in half cover with volume of fire and even high cover with some assistance (from holotarget or cover destruction), while being very effective at killing all the units that stand in the open (robotics, archons, gatekeepers if you peel the armor). The crit bonuses are more of a cherry on top. The Gunners can do similar stuff but without the bonuses from Locked On or the crit bonuses.

[aedn]

Can anyone explain me the concept behind the infantry perks for ranger? I see some crit here and there but it just doesn't feel consistent enough. Unless shooting at exposed targets, it's very difficult to push crit high enough. Let's do the math:
1. Locked On, second shot +10 crit
2. Aggression, suppose we got 6 enemies: +30 crit
3. Elite Laser Sight: +15 crit
4. Executioner: +10 crit
5. Talon Rounds: +10 crit
6. Get some Officer perk: +20 crit

So total max crit chance while shooting at a target in cover, wounded with less than 50% hp, while also having 6 enemies in sight, and officer using 1 AP to grant +20 Crit chance: 95%! Do you understand just how impossible are these conditions to fulfill consistently?
Oh and you have to hope that taking laser sight instead of scope will not punish your to hit chance with some unlucky graze.

Now exposed tragets have 40% crit chance, but I find it underwhelming to take class dedicated to killing some exposed targets.
So what am i missing? Because right now my standard Ranger is
1. Walk fire
2. Locked On
3. Cool Under pressure
4. Executioner
5. Ever Vigilant
6. Rapid Reaction
7. Rupture/Combat Fitness (if I got a gunner with Rupture, I take Combat Fitness instead).

I know grazing fire helps with rapid reaction, but I rarely miss my Overwatch shots as I heavily focus on reaction fire aim.

CRIT rangers allow the ability to select targets while overwatch rangers are entirely random, depending on the number of enemies your facing. Since rangers only damage increase outside of AWC perks is based on critical chance, you have no alternative option anyway.

Using your 6 targets, I can make 2 attacks with high aim, and 55% CRIT, without sharpshooter buffs, or 3 attacks with rapid fire which have a good chance of killing full health enemies, and will kill wounded enemies, barring grazes. Your overwatch build can make up to 4 attacks if you do not move, but only 1 is targeted, and they won't be critical hits for the most part. The other 3 are completely dependent on alien actions and the ability to score multiple hits to continue then RR chain, which is why grazing fire is a superior option for overwatch.

The most important factor though is how your individual builds work in th squad composition. A CRIT ranger gains a lot of power when coupled with holo-target sharpshooter builds for example largely resolving any low critical chance as the game progresses.

[Steve-O]

The most important factor though is how your individual builds work in th squad composition. A CRIT ranger gains a lot of power when coupled with holo-target sharpshooter builds for example largely resolving any low critical chance as the game progresses.

+1 for this. Teamwork makes the dream work.

[DjAci]

Can anyone explain me the concept behind the infantry perks for ranger? I see some crit here and there but it just doesn't feel consistent enough. Unless shooting at exposed targets, it's very difficult to push crit high enough. Let's do the math:
1. Locked On, second shot +10 crit
2. Aggression, suppose we got 6 enemies: +30 crit
3. Elite Laser Sight: +15 crit
4. Executioner: +10 crit
5. Talon Rounds: +10 crit
6. Get some Officer perk: +20 crit

So total max crit chance while shooting at a target in cover, wounded with less than 50% hp, while also having 6 enemies in sight, and officer using 1 AP to grant +20 Crit chance: 95%! Do you understand just how impossible are these conditions to fulfill consistently?
Oh and you have to hope that taking laser sight instead of scope will not punish your to hit chance with some unlucky graze.

Now exposed tragets have 40% crit chance, but I find it underwhelming to take class dedicated to killing some exposed targets.
So what am i missing? Because right now my standard Ranger is
1. Walk fire
2. Locked On
3. Cool Under pressure
4. Executioner
5. Ever Vigilant
6. Rapid Reaction
7. Rupture/Combat Fitness (if I got a gunner with Rupture, I take Combat Fitness instead).

I know grazing fire helps with rapid reaction, but I rarely miss my Overwatch shots as I heavily focus on reaction fire aim.

Crit rangers are a bit strange, but a lot of their power comes from the way crit is calculated in LW2.

For example, a 50% crit chance (locked on/executioner+ agression + talon) is easily achivable and reliable. It is however much more than it seems, especially for a class with lower base aim and more volume of fire.

Suppose you have a 50% chance to hit and a 50% crit. In LW1 that 50% crit yould mean your hits have a 50% chance to do +50% dmg. So your "Ranger" in LW1 would get +25% DPS with 50% crit.

In LW2 crit is a fully independent roll that "promotes the attack". If crit rolls, it will make a hit into a crit, but also a graze into hit and a miss into a graze!

So in LW2 lets take a ranger that has 50 chance to hit (typical aim against low cover) and +50 crit. Without 50 crit and only 50 to hit he would have 40% to hit, 20% graze and 40% hit. If he uses a plasma rifle that does 10 dmg, he's average damage per shot is 0.4*0 + 0.2*10/2 + 0.4*10 = 5.

However, if we add + 50 crit he's shot breakdown is as follows 0.5*(0.4*0 + 0.2*10/2 + 0.4*10) + 0.5*(0.4*10/2 + 0.2*10 + 0.4*15) = 10!!!

So if you have 50 to hit and 50 crit your avarage dmg per shot is now 10 instead of 5, essentially DOUBLE DAMAGE! + If you do a crit shot, BEO adds extra dmg!

Crit is much more powerful than it was in LW1 and shines when your chances to hit are actually closer to 50% than 100%. That is exactly how ranger typically functions.

The reason it is so powerful is that crit chance actually makes misses and grazes into grazes and hits respectively, so crit actually increases your chance to hit a target in LW2!

Hope this makes things clearer

[josna238]

I think the critical path is not for gaining 100% criticals, is to increase the average damage of the ranger. And of course to work with friends that increase the %hit (holotargeters, grenadiers, gunners or aim officers).

For example blow cover and take two finishing shots with better chances to crit than usual (more damage on average). Or with a "Alpha target" in cover using focus, holotargeter some shots and end with two ranger shoots with high % to hit and to crit (more average damage).

[JulianSkies]

Can anyone explain me the concept behind the infantry perks for ranger? I see some crit here and there but it just doesn't feel consistent enough. Unless shooting at exposed targets, it's very difficult to push crit high enough. Let's do the math:
1. Locked On, second shot +10 crit
2. Aggression, suppose we got 6 enemies: +30 crit
3. Elite Laser Sight: +15 crit
4. Executioner: +10 crit
5. Talon Rounds: +10 crit
6. Get some Officer perk: +20 crit

So total max crit chance while shooting at a target in cover, wounded with less than 50% hp, while also having 6 enemies in sight, and officer using 1 AP to grant +20 Crit chance: 95%! Do you understand just how impossible are these conditions to fulfill consistently?
Oh and you have to hope that taking laser sight instead of scope will not punish your to hit chance with some unlucky graze.

Now exposed tragets have 40% crit chance, but I find it underwhelming to take class dedicated to killing some exposed targets.
So what am i missing? Because right now my standard Ranger is
1. Walk fire
2. Locked On
3. Cool Under pressure
4. Executioner
5. Ever Vigilant
6. Rapid Reaction
7. Rupture/Combat Fitness (if I got a gunner with Rupture, I take Combat Fitness instead).

I know grazing fire helps with rapid reaction, but I rarely miss my Overwatch shots as I heavily focus on reaction fire aim.

Crit rangers are a bit strange, but a lot of their power comes from the way crit is calculated in LW2.

For example, a 50% crit chance (locked on/executioner+ agression + talon) is easily achivable and reliable. It is however much more than it seems, especially for a class with lower base aim and more volume of fire.

Suppose you have a 50% chance to hit and a 50% crit. In LW1 that 50% crit yould mean your hits have a 50% chance to do +50% dmg. So your "Ranger" in LW1 would get +25% DPS with 50% crit.

In LW2 crit is a fully independent roll that "promotes the attack". If crit rolls, it will make a hit into a crit, but also a graze into hit and a miss into a graze!

So in LW2 lets take a ranger that has 50 chance to hit (typical aim against low cover) and +50 crit. Without 50 crit and only 50 to hit he would have 40% to hit, 20% graze and 40% hit. If he uses a plasma rifle that does 10 dmg, he's average damage per shot is 0.4*0 + 0.2*10/2 + 0.4*10 = 5.

However, if we add + 50 crit he's shot breakdown is as follows 0.5*(0.4*0 + 0.2*10/2 + 0.4*10) + 0.5*(0.4*10/2 + 0.2*10 + 0.4*15) = 10!!!

So if you have 50 to hit and 50 crit your avarage dmg per shot is now 10 instead of 5, essentially DOUBLE DAMAGE! + If you do a crit shot, BEO adds extra dmg!

Crit is much more powerful than it was in LW1 and shines when your chances to hit are actually closer to 50% than 100%. That is exactly how ranger typically functions.

The reason it is so powerful is that crit chance actually makes misses and grazes into grazes and hits respectively, so crit actually increases your chance to hit a target in LW2!

Hope this makes things clearer

You will have to readjust your calculations a little bit. Critical 'promotions' don't work on misses, actually. (unless you enable it with an .ini change)

[Jadiel]

So in LW2 lets take a ranger that has 50 chance to hit (typical aim against low cover) and +50 crit. Without 50 crit and only 50 to hit he would have 40% to hit, 20% graze and 40% hit. If he uses a plasma rifle that does 10 dmg, he's average damage per shot is 0.4*0 + 0.2*10/2 + 0.4*10 = 5.

However, if we add + 50 crit he's shot breakdown is as follows 0.5*(0.4*0 + 0.2*10/2 + 0.4*10) + 0.5*(0.4*10/2 + 0.2*10 + 0.4*15) = 10!!!

So if you have 50 to hit and 50 crit your avarage dmg per shot is now 10 instead of 5, essentially DOUBLE DAMAGE! + If you do a crit shot, BEO adds extra dmg!

As has already been pointed out, crit rolls usually don't promote misses to grazes (although if those misses were downgraded by a successful dodge, crit can counter this). However, even if they did, your maths is a bit out.

With 0 crit, you're right that the expected damage is 5. If crits could upgrade misses, the expected damage would be 0.5*5 + 0.5*(2+2+6) = 7.5, which is a 50% increase in damage from 5, not 100%.

In the actual game though, misses don't upgrade, so the expected damage with 50% crit is 0.5*5 + 0.5*(0+2+6) = 6.5 which is a 30% damage increase.

[stefan3iii]

I feel like the problem with critfantry isn't crit chance, it's crit damage. I like the idea of a high variance soldier, that would be an interesting niche for rangers. Imagine if rangers had the highest DPS per turn of any class, on AVERAGE, but sometimes they miss their crits and do very little, and sometimes they put out extreme damage. Would nicely differentiate them from gunners.

In LW2, crit is a flat amount based on the weapon. Bring-em-on can push it up, but very slowly, only +1 for every 2 enemies. Contrast that to LW1 where crit damage was a multiplier on base damage, so things like VPT and Ranger (aka centermass) helped, and BEO did more damage with few enemies on the screen.

I think you could fix critfantry by buffing BEO, and maybe buffing Locked On to also add +Crit Damage, or finding some other place to stick some crit damage in the Ranger tree.

[DjAci]

As has already been pointed out, crit rolls usually don't promote misses to grazes (although if those misses were downgraded by a successful dodge, crit can counter this). However, even if they did, your maths is a bit out.

With 0 crit, you're right that the expected damage is 5. If crits could upgrade misses, the expected damage would be 0.5*5 + 0.5*(2+2+6) = 7.5, which is a 50% increase in damage from 5, not 100%.

In the actual game though, misses don't upgrade, so the expected damage with 50% crit is 0.5*5 + 0.5*(0+2+6) = 6.5 which is a 30% damage increase.

Thx for the info, thought misses get promoted. Nice bit of info there:)

[guypapyrus]

A little tangential but since we're talking about how hit, crit and graze interact: can crit upgrade Grazing Fire grazes to hits? Because all of a sudden Covering Fire seems a lot better even without the 1.3 buff.

[JulianSkies]

A little tangential but since we're talking about how hit, crit and graze interact: can crit upgrade Grazing Fire grazes to hits? Because all of a sudden Covering Fire seems a lot better even without the 1.3 buff.

I am not sure, depends on where the Grazing Fire calculation goes. But I am tempted to say no

[Tuhalu]

A little tangential but since we're talking about how hit, crit and graze interact: can crit upgrade Grazing Fire grazes to hits? Because all of a sudden Covering Fire seems a lot better even without the 1.3 buff.

Definitely not. The game calculates crit, hit, graze, miss as one random roll. Grazing Fire only activates if the attack is determined to be a miss.

[darkerevent]

Crit Rangers are basically "supposed" to shoot three times per turn (Light 'em Up into Rapid Fire) and produce a high number of crits while doing so, creating an overall single-target damage output that is very high and relatively safe at the expense of being relatively immobile and lacking true AoE.

I don't like using them if the squad isn't also going to include a dedicated target painter (e.g. a Holo Sharpshooter Officer with Focus Fire) and someone to destroy cover for them when needed, but in the presence of such characters, crit rangers can really cause some harm.

Also, I recommend Elite Scope to secure the hit first; the crits will come as a random side benefit and the percentage needn't be 100% in order for them to work well.

[stefan3iii]

Crit Rangers are basically "supposed" to shoot three times per turn (Light 'em Up into Rapid Fire) and produce a high number of crits while doing so, creating an overall single-target damage output that is very high and relatively safe at the expense of being relatively immobile and lacking true AoE.

I don't like using them if the squad isn't also going to include a dedicated target painter (e.g. a Holo Sharpshooter Officer with Focus Fire) and someone to destroy cover for them when needed, but in the presence of such characters, crit rangers can really cause some harm.

Also, I recommend Elite Scope to secure the hit first; the crits will come as a random side benefit and the percentage needn't be 100% in order for them to work well.

The sad part is that gunners do about the same damage, but have more ammo in their gun and have a lot more utility. I would like to see rangers be indisputably the highest mid range damage dealers, given that they basically don't do anything but deal damage.

[RantingRodent]

The reliability of Crit Rangers is by far their most important quality. Firing multiple times per turn doesn't just increase average output, it smooths out RNG issues. Same for the crit stacking; once you get over 50% crit the graze band becomes an outright aim buff, and if you land a crit on the first shot, you can then direct the remaining fire onto a different target. None of the other options have nearly the same damage stability as the Crit Ranger does.

Gunners trade predictability for average damage output, which is great for chewing through a ton of HP in a large engagement, but less so when something specific needs to die.

[darkerevent]

The sad part is that gunners do about the same damage, but have more ammo in their gun and have a lot more utility. I would like to see rangers be indisputably the highest mid range damage dealers, given that they basically don't do anything but deal damage.

I won't argue with that; I also feel like shooty rangers get overshadowed by Gunners in terms of overall usefulness, at least in 1.2. The 1.3 changes seem poised to smooth that out a little, at least as far as damage per turn is concerned, but the utility part will probably be unaffected.

This does remind me that I need to experiment with more types of squad comps for using shooty rangers, since in my 1.2 playthrough they almost exclusively served as filler shooters on my 10-character supply raids and HQ assaults, which usually were heavy on sharpshooters and other targeted damage already.