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In Vanilla Killzone was a Sniper perk and therefore it costed 2 AP. If you got that through AWC it was still 2 AP. And Now you removed this from Snipers and put it on 2 classes that have a little bit more mobility than Snipers. Besides, it goes against their abilities that allow them to fire then perform a second action. Same with Specialists, it denies them to use any of their non turn ending abilities.

I don't consider Killzone worth the investment with this limitation. At least on Veteran difficulty. Rapid Reaction is decent substitute. Was that to make Kill Zone openings from concealment more difficult? Why is this even a thing when we got 1 AP Saturation Fire available??

I challenge you to convice me that 2 AP Killzone brings value to Gunners/Rangers/Specialist because I don't see one.

Its value is that it can be combined with another soldier's opener hitting first, followed up by Kill Zone. This can be very, very strong.

Having it be 1 AP would make the maneuver easier to pull off and give it even more utility. Does it need that?

I'm ambivalent, it's good enough as-is and there's some thematic sense to it requiring some setup.

I dont think its because of that. Saturation costs only 1 ap and is even stronger. Saturation should cost 2 AP and Killzone 1 AP.

To avoid first actions like reloading, mass holotargeting, mass stuning, reposition to have perfect cone, salvo grenade...

I think because the number of actions that an ability uses is not dependent on the weapon in Xcom2. So abilities like Killzone ability has its 2 actions set by the original class that used it.

Additionally the value is not exposed to the player (it's certainly not in the inis not sure if it can be exposed with more complicated hacks)

Goumindong wrote:I think because the number of actions that an ability uses is not dependent on the weapon in Xcom2. So abilities like Killzone ability has its 2 actions set by the original class that used it.

Additionally the value is not exposed to the player (it's certainly not in the inis not sure if it can be exposed with more complicated hacks)

It's built into the vanilla skill itself. But just like LW2 does with other skills, you could easily overwrite the vanilla skill with your own version in a mod.

I've never been super impressed with KZ except on breaking concealment, and there are lots of other things in the game which can work well for that. Of course, I tended to run with two overwatch-built characters in all of my combat squads and would put them on OW before breaking conceal with a rocket, flamethrower, or shredder, so I generally didn't need to have KZ to shore up a lack of opener cleanup.

Still, I'm curious to try KZ -> Roust combo shenanigans in 1.3 -- I wanted to make a 2 assault, 2 (flame) technical, 2 gunner GOps squad comp work in 1.2, but I wasn't good enough at pyro yet (and roust was too wimpy) to make that sustainable into the midgame, so I eventually gave it up. I'll probably construct the team a bit differently this time, but the gunner and technical core synergy will still be there.

With all of that said, I think KZ being 2 AP is probably fine as is, but I'm mostly indifferent. If the devs wanted to try buffing its cost to 1 AP, I would not complain until I tried it.

darkerevent wrote:I've never been super impressed with KZ except on breaking concealment, and there are lots of other things in the game which can work well for that. Of course, I tended to run with two overwatch-built characters in all of my combat squads and would put them on OW before breaking conceal with a rocket, flamethrower, or shredder, so I generally didn't need to have KZ to shore up a lack of opener cleanup.

Still, I'm curious to try KZ -> Roust combo shenanigans in 1.3 -- I wanted to make a 2 assault, 2 (flame) technical, 2 gunner GOps squad comp work in 1.2, but I wasn't good enough at pyro yet (and roust was too wimpy) to make that sustainable into the midgame, so I eventually gave it up. I'll probably construct the team a bit differently this time, but the gunner and technical core synergy will still be there.

With all of that said, I think KZ being 2 AP is probably fine as is, but I'm mostly indifferent. If the devs wanted to try buffing its cost to 1 AP, I would not complain until I tried it.

I tried it the Overwatching/Suppression + Roust combos and it's not very reliable. Sometimes advents just retreats further back and does not trigger suppression. Which is kinda sad. You really need to ensure that whoever is supressing, overwatching can see the tiles behind the cover so that rousting will trigger a reaction shot. It's not easy to pull off.