Advice

Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Advice

Post by Jackal »

So, i'm in July.. July 20th

only have 5 havens, don't have enough intel to add another one... I don't even have a gunnery sergeant yet...

am i wasting my time? do i need to start over? I haven't been able to figure out how to liberate a region from Advent yet...

so many hours, not scum saving ... have had some rough losses.... i hate to have to go back to the beginning but i'd also hate to keep wasting time in a losing effort.
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Tuhalu »

It's hard to say how well you are doing just from that information alone.
  • What difficulty are you playing at?
  • How many scientists and engineers do you have?
  • What research have you completed?
  • How many Tactical Dark Events have accumulated for ADVENT?
  • How full are your Havens?
  • What strategy do you have for jobs in your havens and how does that change over the course of the campaign and as advent strength increases?
  • What rooms have you built on the Avenger?
  • How many healthy soldiers do you have available to do missions at once?
  • How much improved gear do you have?
  • Which missions do you prioritise and which do you ignore?
If you aren't keeping up in a number of the areas the questions point to, then it might be falling into a death spiral. But you can still learn a lot by trying out new strategies and seeing if it gives better results.

From other topics you've posted in, it certainly sounds like you have had trouble unlocking liberation chains, which indicates something fundamentally wrong with your haven job or mission picking strategy.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Advice

Post by LordYanaek »

I wouldn't restart before 1.3 is out anyway so it should give you some time to see if you can improve your situation or if it's really a downward spiral.
darkerevent
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Advice

Post by darkerevent »

LordYanaek wrote:I wouldn't restart before 1.3 is out anyway so it should give you some time to see if you can improve your situation or if it's really a downward spiral.
Agreed. It sounds like v1.3 will be coming out soonish, so its launch would be an ideal time for a campaign restart if you're going to need to do one. Until then, continuing to get more familiar with the game is a good plan.

Personally, I restarted twice before I got my bearings well enough to do my first full campaign.
DonCrabio
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: Advice

Post by DonCrabio »

Your situation don't look bad for me, except no liberated regions.

For example, I'm at early September, 6 regions contacted, 1 liberated, 1 ready for HQ assault. Avatar project have 7 pips, 3 on facility I have lead on.

I don't have GSGT soldier yet, but have 5 established 5 man squads, mostly TSGT and SSGT, plus some good backup, plus some Sharshooters and Psi Ops off squads now.

I'm at Mag weapons and Predator armor currently, I have enough supplies to field four 5 man squads at once.

Future looks bright and glorious for me, but time will show.

P.S. I'm playing Veteran/NonIronman with some house rules - no low % Supply raids, almost no stealth missions (done 2 up to date, to counter really bad Dark Events with bad timers), no Shredder cannons. Generally, I avoid all things what will be nerfed in 1.3.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Dwarfling »

I would start instigating retaliations and using those to get the needed experience, at the cost of your rebels and possibly some wounds.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

Tuhalu wrote:It's hard to say how well you are doing just from that information alone.
  • What difficulty are you playing at?
    VETERAN 56 Legions, condition: elevated
    I have researched predator armor and have many SSGT but not a single GSSG yet

    Is there a way to see how many missions i've fought
  • How many scientists and engineers do you have?
    5 scientists 4 engineers
  • What research have you completed?
    working on combat armor, waiting on alien encryption because it takes so much intel
  • How many Tactical Dark Events have accumulated for ADVENT?
    six dark events
  • How full are your Havens?
    9. 5, 7 8,6
  • What strategy do you have for jobs in your havens and how does that change over the course of the campaign and as advent strength increases?
    I only recently learned that there is a strategy... :(
  • What rooms have you built on the Avenger?
    Resistant Coms, Power Relay, Proving ground, Guerrilla Tactics, Advanced Warfare, Defense Matrix
  • How many healthy soldiers do you have available to do missions at once?
    27 soldiers available, 5 wounded
  • How much improved gear do you have?
    Mag weapons (not sniper yet) Combat Armor, Just researched the stasis vests
  • Which missions do you prioritise and which do you ignore?
I have been taking pretty much any mission I think I can win. I've started leaving back a decent squad (manning the havens) in case a dark event arises.


If you aren't keeping up in a number of the areas the questions point to, then it might be falling into a death spiral. But you can still learn a lot by trying out new strategies and seeing if it gives better results.

From other topics you've posted in, it certainly sounds like you have had trouble unlocking liberation chains, which indicates something fundamentally wrong with your haven job or mission picking strategy.

I completely agree.. i am totally missing something to do with unlocking liberation chains...
darkerevent
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Advice

Post by darkerevent »

Jackal wrote:I completely agree.. i am totally missing something to do with unlocking liberation chains...
[Small gameplay spoilers below -- personally, I think knowing this information tends to ease people's frustration.]

The first mission of a region's liberation chain will always be a "Find a Lead" Guerilla Ops mission which has only an amount of Intel as its reward (but no Intel Package). From then on, all further liberation missions in that region will have "Liberation: (insert objective here)" in the description.

The first three liberation missions (called "lib1, lib2, and lib3" in the LW2 community) have to be discovered in that fashion. Once the third is completed, you'll learn the location of ADVENT's network tower in that region (lib4), and you can infiltrate and assault it. Once you win that mission, you will have the option to assault ADVENT's regional headquarters (lib5). Winning the regional HQ mission will liberate the region.

Failing a liberation mission, or letting one expire, does not reset the liberation chain, so if you continue running lots of the Intel job in the haven, you should eventually find the missions. Scanning with the Avenger in a specific region also counts as 4 rebels' worth of the Intel job, so choosing to scan in a specific region is useful if you're trying to make liberation progress there.

Also, once you have reached the Tower mission or the HQ Assault mission, those missions will never expire, so you have the option of taking as you like in order to infiltrate them fully.

(One little note: it is also possible for a "Find a Lead" mission that only gives Intel as its reward to reveal a UFO Landing mission instead of being part of the liberation chain. So, if you do such a mission and then get offered a mission to assault a landed UFO right afterward, the mission you did was not part of the liberation chain and you'll need to keep searching. This is somewhat rare, but it does happen.)
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

i think i have discovered my problem... i was not devoting enough rebels to intel
Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Advice

Post by Psieye »

Jackal wrote:i think i have discovered my problem... i was not devoting enough rebels to intel
In the earlygame, I prefer going 100% intel on the one region I'm focussing to liberate. Jailbreak missions grow that haven so no recruiting is necessary. Intel packages get you resources and personnel to substitute for supplies. What you do after a fast early liberation is up to your playstyle. Just bear in mind that if you're winning a lot of missions in one region, Advent will heavily reinforce that place: which might be what you want.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Tuhalu »

Jackal wrote:i think i have discovered my problem... i was not devoting enough rebels to intel
Take a look at this topic: LW2 Strategic Layer: Managing Strength and Vigilance. It should help you with a general strategy for managing havens and producing easier missions. From the sound of it, the one region you found a Liberation 2 in probably has too much activity in it now, making it a difficult haven to continue operations in (aside from troop columns and supply raids).

Also, from your answers to my other questions, I think you need to prioritise building a Laboratory. In LW2, you can buy up to 4 bays for scientists to go in, which would double the effectiveness of 4 of your scientists. Without it, you'll struggle to research technology quickly enough. My usual build order has me building the lab before even the proving ground.

As a general piece of advice, once you have Predator Armor unlocked (and assuming you can build Radio Towers), you should probably push your technology directly to Coil weapons (requires Advanced Mag Weapons and Elerium research).
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Advice

Post by Jacke »

Tuhalu wrote:...I think you need to prioritise building a Laboratory. In LW2, you can buy up to 4 bays for scientists to go in, which would double the effectiveness of 4 of your scientists. Without it, you'll struggle to research technology quickly enough. My usual build order has me building the lab before even the proving ground.
Xwynns in his recently ended LW2 Legendary campaign prioritized setting up the Laboratory early and upgrading it, yet he hadn't completed major research projects like Plasma Weapons and the higher armours when he finished in early March 2036.
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Tuhalu »

Jacke wrote:Xwynns in his recently ended LW2 Legendary campaign prioritized setting up the Laboratory early and upgrading it, yet he hadn't completed major research projects like Plasma Weapons and the higher armours when he finished in early March 2036.
Xwynns' campaign is a sterling example of how a terribad start on the strategy layer can be overcome and won even on Legend. It's not a great example of normal Tech progression though, since he basically never had more than about 6 scientists at any one time. If his strategy layer had gone better, he could have bought 2 or 3 scientists from the Black Market in the mid-game and gotten through Plasma.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

okay, one more question... i'm still hanging on with my guys at the moment..

fhad three squads out at once...
first one went well, one soldier injured

second one was a data mission and only one ranger survived with the data, (five dead, with lots of weapons and armor and scopes and exp anmmo) but he did survive and prevented a Dark Event

if the third one is okay, i'm gonna keep going

but, if i start again, knowing what I know now about havens and science labs, when or do you even buy things like Wet Works to help your soldiers, or the big 250 to make it easier to infiltrate 5 man squads etc
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Tuhalu »

Basically, GTS projects come when you can afford it.

The only one I really prioritise is Vulture since it has a clear return on investment. You'll get enough loot that you wind up selling some as it obsoletes or you can sell a few elerium cores when they are on Very Interested.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

Tuhalu wrote:Basically, GTS projects come when you can afford it.

The only one I really prioritise is Vulture since it has a clear return on investment. You'll get enough loot that you wind up selling some as it obsoletes or you can sell a few elerium cores when they are on Very Interested.
Oh god, I can't believe I overlooked Vulture. I am definitely starting over.


what about hidden potential and created differently ? Grazing? Red Fog?

I think I like the idea of red fog, but it can really screw a mission up...
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

and while i'm asking...what are the 0% missions i'm supposed to avoid (house rules)??

i've never really done the shinobi jailbreak or data theft missions successfully, so I haven't "cheated" that way..
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

Tuhalu wrote:
Jackal wrote:i think i have discovered my problem... i was not devoting enough rebels to intel
Take a look at this topic: LW2 Strategic Layer: Managing Strength and Vigilance. It should help you with a general strategy for managing havens and producing easier missions. From the sound of it, the one region you found a Liberation 2 in probably has too much activity in it now, making it a difficult haven to continue operations in (aside from troop columns and supply raids).

Also, from your answers to my other questions, I think you need to prioritise building a Laboratory. In LW2, you can buy up to 4 bays for scientists to go in, which would double the effectiveness of 4 of your scientists. Without it, you'll struggle to research technology quickly enough. My usual build order has me building the lab before even the proving ground.

As a general piece of advice, once you have Predator Armor unlocked (and assuming you can build Radio Towers), you should probably push your technology directly to Coil weapons (requires Advanced Mag Weapons and Elerium research).

I read Joinrbs' post... very helpful

what is the suggested choice between AWC and Guerrilla ? Which research do you prioritize?
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Tuhalu »

Jackal wrote:and while i'm asking...what are the 0% missions i'm supposed to avoid (house rules)??

i've never really done the shinobi jailbreak or data theft missions successfully, so I haven't "cheated" that way..
It's generally agreed that 0% troop columns and supply raids are a little cheap if you can do them. Honestly, I never found it was necessary to do them as I often found them with 5-7 days (due to good detection) and was able to get some sufficient infiltration on them with a deep roster that could take the impact of having 8 men away for that amount of time.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Advice

Post by LordYanaek »

Jackal wrote: what about hidden potential and created differently ? Grazing? Red Fog?

I think I like the idea of red fog, but it can really screw a mission up...
In short : I like to play with Not Created Equally, Red Fog (both sides) and keep the Graze Band at the default 10% value but that last one is implemented in a frustrating way and i might end up simply disabling it. I never touch Hidden Potential.
In detail :
  • Not Created Equally : your rookies will have randomized but balanced stats. What that means is that you'll have soldiers with higher aim but they "pay" for that aim with lower defense, movement, will... OTOH you might have soldiers with poor aim but high health and dodge. Creates opportunities for various builds such as a high health and dodge assault/technical being the "tank" that will draw a lot of fire and survive while your high Aim, low health and defense sniper will be a perfect killed but must be kept perfectly safe from any fight. It might increase the difficulty a bit as you have to find the right classes (for GTS promoted soldiers) or perks to fit various stats but it makes the game interesting and helps you create highly specialized and efficient soldiers.
  • OTOH i avoid Hidden Potential like the plague. What it does is distribute randomized stats on every level-up so your high aim rookie who became a sniper might end up with totally crappy aim. It have the potential to create some uber-soldiers if you're lucky or some crappy ones if you're not and unlike NCE, it doesn't create interesting choices but simply rewards pure luck.
  • Red Fog is a love-it or hate-it feature. I think it makes the game interesting because it makes every hit point important (rather than just the last one) and makes the otherwise rarely used medic build an option that's on par with other specialist builds. It changes the tactical game quite a lot since wounded enemies are already subject to some form of crowd control so wounding two enemies rather than killing one becomes a valid tactic which can be the best one in some situations, but not always. I think it brings more diversity to the tactical game in addition to adding some realism to the fight (an almost dead soldier shouldn't be fighting as efficiently as a perfectly healthy one). I know some players view it almost like a cheat but as long as you apply it to both sides, i think it's fair as it can perfectly screw you if you take too many shots. The real negative point might be that it makes the first shots of an engagement even more important and can snowball an engagement into an easy win or turn into a downward spiral with few chance to recover.
  • Graze Band is a good idea with a questionable implementation from my PoV. The reason it's there is to move away from the binary nature of combat in Vanilla XCom2 (you hit or you miss) and add some "barely hit" situation where your shot was almost perfect, but not really. The idea is good but the issue is that it works by affecting a plain x% (default 10) shots below and above the to-hit chance and turning those into a graze. So if your THC is 75%, a roll of 0-65 will be a hit, 66-85 will be a graze and 86+ will be a miss. As you see, the chance to totally miss is 10% lower as well as the chance to really hit and you have 20% chance to graze so overall your chance to do some damage is slightly higher but you can also inflict less damage than expected. So far so good.
    However, when your THC raises higher (or drops very low) the graze band will still affect it with the same flat value. If you have 95% THC, a result of 0-85 will hit, 86-105 will be a graze and 106+ would miss. In this case you loose 10% of hits (that become grazes) and you gain only 5% of improved chance to graze rather than miss completely. It's even worse with a 100% THC shot as you plain and simple loose 10% of your hits into grazes with no benefit as you couldn't miss in the first place. For this reason you can actually graze totally immobile structures like relays which is when the graze band becomes a little silly. You might also consider the other extreme : if you take a 0% shot, the graze band offers you 10% chance to still do some damage which is also a bit silly.
    I think the graze band should be cut to the lower of : it's defined value, 100-THC, THC. This way on a 95% shot you would hit with 0-90 and graze with 91-100 (you cut graze band to 100-95=5). On a 0% shot you don't have a chance to actually do some damage, it's just impossible to hit that guy. And of course, immobile structure with a forced 100% THC shouldn't be grazed with this implementation.
Jackal wrote:and while i'm asking...what are the 0% missions i'm supposed to avoid (house rules)??
i've never really done the shinobi jailbreak or data theft missions successfully, so I haven't "cheated" that way..
As i said, i would wait for 1.3 to be released soon before starting over. There will be some changes that might make those "house rules" needless. In my current run i decided i wouldn't run an "ambush" type mission with less than 50% infiltration and i'm usually closer to 100% because i can only infiltrate small squads of around 6 guys (rarely 7) and so i try to avoid very heavy missions.
It's harder to "house rule" stealth missions because some incoming changes will modify how they play. You might choose not so send less than 4 men but the current GoPs aren't very well balanced for small squad fights. I also decided to avoid pure stealth as much as possible this run and my main "stealth" squad is a 4 men squad (Shinobi+Specialist+Ranger+Assault) that can actually put some fight when they are discovered which tend to happen as i can't 200% infiltrate such a squad on most missions. It worked pretty well until early June but since Mutons and M2 ADVENT and Sneks started spawning in common GoPs they really lack the power to fight them and are not really good at pure stealth either. I simply can't replicate 1.3 with house rules.

I will probably drop this campaign and start over when 1.3 is out so i'm not too worried but those house rules without the other 1.3 changes (Smash n grab missions for instance) really slow down my entire progress. You might not want to add too many of those unless you feel somewhat confident you would win easily on that difficulty without.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

Tuhalu wrote:
Jackal wrote:and while i'm asking...what are the 0% missions i'm supposed to avoid (house rules)??

i've never really done the shinobi jailbreak or data theft missions successfully, so I haven't "cheated" that way..
It's generally agreed that 0% troop columns and supply raids are a little cheap if you can do them. Honestly, I never found it was necessary to do them as I often found them with 5-7 days (due to good detection) and was able to get some sufficient infiltration on them with a deep roster that could take the impact of having 8 men away for that amount of time.

I thoiught I posted this, but I guess i didn't:

I apologize for being a dummy, but what exactly is a 0% mission? Are you saying going in with 0% infiltration? Wouldn't that be total suicide??
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

LordYanaek wrote:

As i said, i would wait for 1.3 to be released soon before starting over. There will be some changes that might make those "house rules" needless. In my current run i decided i wouldn't run an "ambush" type mission with less than 50% infiltration and i'm usually closer to 100% because i can only infiltrate small squads of around 6 guys (rarely 7) and so i try to avoid very heavy missions.
.
First of all, thank you very much for your answers

I hadn't realized the flaw in the grazing fire, that is a real issue. What is the difference in the red fog choices? (quadratic (??) and linear) and which one do you prefer


You talk about avoiding heavy missions... I think Moderate is the biggest mission i've ever run and it was a bloodbath, but i survived.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

I did want to tell all the guys that helped me that i decided to start over, but I only have two havens and I've already got a haven with two "pips" and I've only had one or two supply drops ! That's progress!
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Tuhalu »

Jackal wrote: I apologize for being a dummy, but what exactly is a 0% mission? Are you saying going in with 0% infiltration? Wouldn't that be total suicide??
Yes, it's going in with 0% infiltration. Not necessarily suicide if you have the ability to deal with masses of enemies quickly, but you can also be clever and find a better place to ambush from than the starting area (which is almost always swarmed). It is worth noting that on Supply Raids, you can currently go in with 10 soldiers, but they are looking to drop that down to 8 in 1.3, making dealing with swarming masses of enemies quickly much harder.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Advice

Post by Jackal »

Tuhalu wrote:
Jackal wrote: I apologize for being a dummy, but what exactly is a 0% mission? Are you saying going in with 0% infiltration? Wouldn't that be total suicide??
Yes, it's going in with 0% infiltration. Not necessarily suicide if you have the ability to deal with masses of enemies quickly, but you can also be clever and find a better place to ambush from than the starting area (which is almost always swarmed). It is worth noting that on Supply Raids, you can currently go in with 10 soldiers, but they are looking to drop that down to 8 in 1.3, making dealing with swarming masses of enemies quickly much harder.

Wait. you can adjust where you start.. or do you mean.. sneak to a better ambush spot??
Post Reply