Haven/Advent Retal Question

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Jackal
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Jackal »

Is there a "safe" number of rebels you can use that will not trigger advent increasing in the region or retaliating?

and, is this number cumulative or individual? For instance.. is it under 6 for any one, so: six intel is okay, but seven starts trouble or is it a combination of intel and supply

thanks guys.
LordYanaek
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by LordYanaek »

http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Have ... taliations
If you have more questions after reading this don't hesitate to ask.

Number of rebels doesn't directly affect troop transfer, only the number of missions you complete (via the hidden vigilance variable). Troops can still move into a region where you don't make any mission if they are moving towards another one or as they are added by (undetected) UFOs but if you don't run any mission ADVENT won't move troops to that region on purpose.
Jackal
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Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Jackal »

I will read this, and THANK YOU AS ALWAYS, but quick question: i thought that was what "hiding" was for, if your rebels were stirring up trouble by doing too much stuff in a haven, intel, supply, recruit..
hewhoispale
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by hewhoispale »

Jackal wrote:I will read this, and THANK YOU AS ALWAYS, but quick question: i thought that was what "hiding" was for, if your rebels were stirring up trouble by doing too much stuff in a haven, intel, supply, recruit..
Rebels put on "hiding" aren't counted when determining if a retaliation can occur.
So hiding won't lower how concerned ADVENT is about a region (you did just blow up a bunch of their stuff and they know someone is up to no good in the area), but it will effect if ADVENT can launch a retaliation (they can only try to kill your rebels if they can find them).
So if ADVENT has moved a bunch of troops in the area, and you are concerned about them launching a retaliation on your haven, moving the bulk of the rebels to "hiding" will lower or eliminate their ability to "catch" them and launch the retaliation.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Jackal »

Min Alert
Level
Min Rebels
on duty *
Affected Advisor Mission
Full Retaliation 4 5 All Haven Defense
Terror
Intel Raid 3 6 Soldier / Scientist Protect the datatap
Supply Raid 4 6 Soldier / Engineer Protect Supply Convoy
Recruit Raid 4 6 Soldier Escort Recruiters



Okay, so there's an asterisk by Min Rebels on duty, but no asterisk reference underneath

also, is the "alert level" the number of advent in the region?

It seems counter intuitive that having 6 on a specific task will trigger a mini retaliation, but having five total 3 on intel and two on supply, for example, will trigger a full retaliation...

i'm sure i'm being dense, but I don't get it.
JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by JulianSkies »

Jackal wrote:Min Alert
Level
Min Rebels
on duty *
Affected Advisor Mission
Full Retaliation 4 5 All Haven Defense
Terror
Intel Raid 3 6 Soldier / Scientist Protect the datatap
Supply Raid 4 6 Soldier / Engineer Protect Supply Convoy
Recruit Raid 4 6 Soldier Escort Recruiters



Okay, so there's an asterisk by Min Rebels on duty, but no asterisk reference underneath

also, is the "alert level" the number of advent in the region?

It seems counter intuitive that having 6 on a specific task will trigger a mini retaliation, but having five total 3 on intel and two on supply, for example, will trigger a full retaliation...

i'm sure i'm being dense, but I don't get it.
The asterisk actually seems to refer that faceless change that calculation, of you put a faceless in that job it counts as two rebels on the job, I think.
Mini retaliations can occur at different strength levels than full retaliations, though. You'll get mini retaliations much sooner than full scale ones, but need less rebels to trigger full ones
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
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Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by LordYanaek »

The asterisk was there to attract attention that there is some explanation later. I'll switch it to "see notes" as it's exactly what it means (obviously it wasn't clear).
The notes are
[*]Full Retaliations evaluates the rebels on every job while mini retaliations only consider rebels doing that particular job (so 6+ rebels on intel will never trigger a supply raid).
[*]Faceless "rebels" count as double to determine the min rebels on duty so 4 rebels on a particular job, two of them being faceless is enough to trigger the raid for that job. This means it's theoretically possible to trigger a raid with only 3 rebels if all of them are faceless.
Jackal wrote: also, is the "alert level" the number of advent in the region?
Yes, it's the Strength value on the geoscape but internally it's called Alert and referred by that name in all UFOpedia articles.
It seems counter intuitive that having 6 on a specific task will trigger a mini retaliation, but having five total 3 on intel and two on supply, for example, will trigger a full retaliation...
But it's exactly how it works.
ADVENT might notice some activity but might not know exactly what you are doing with 5 rebels on various jobs. It might be enough to locate the haven thought and attack it.
OTOH, a band of 6 people gathering supplies will directly attract their attention and they will attack those people.
From a gameplay PoV, retaliations can be prevented unlike raids and i think are less also less frequent so that balances the lower number of rebels to detect them.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Jackal »

LordYanaek wrote:The asterisk was there to attract attention that there is some explanation later. I'll switch it to "see notes" as it's exactly what it means (obviously it wasn't clear).
The notes are
[*]Full Retaliations evaluates the rebels on every job while mini retaliations only consider rebels doing that particular job (so 6+ rebels on intel will never trigger a supply raid).
[*]Faceless "rebels" count as double to determine the min rebels on duty so 4 rebels on a particular job, two of them being faceless is enough to trigger the raid for that job. This means it's theoretically possible to trigger a raid with only 3 rebels if all of them are faceless.
Jackal wrote: also, is the "alert level" the number of advent in the region?
Yes, it's the Strength value on the geoscape but internally it's called Alert and referred by that name in all UFOpedia articles.
It seems counter intuitive that having 6 on a specific task will trigger a mini retaliation, but having five total 3 on intel and two on supply, for example, will trigger a full retaliation...
But it's exactly how it works.
ADVENT might notice some activity but might not know exactly what you are doing with 5 rebels on various jobs. It might be enough to locate the haven thought and attack it.
OTOH, a band of 6 people gathering supplies will directly attract their attention and they will attack those people.
From a gameplay PoV, retaliations can be prevented unlike raids and i think are less also less frequent so that balances the lower number of rebels to detect them.

LOL,

speak slowly, i really can be dense, and have an unwanted talent of guessing the wrong answer,

so: ADVENT Strength

The ADVENT strength stat describes the number of troops in this region and will increase the baseline enemy strength of missions in the region. Any personnel action besides hidden will cause this to rise. ADVENT strength is retroactive for missions currently being infiltrated, thus you may notice changes in enemy strength between discovery and execution of a mission.

Advent Strength and Advent Alert Level are the same things?

Other than that, I think I finally have it! :)

To wit:

Until Level 4 there is no fear of full or mini retaliations
at level 3 , if you have 6 rebels working on intel (or the faceless equivalent) you may trigger a mini intel retaliation, but are not in danger of a full retaliation

at level 4, any combination of 5 rebels (or the faceless equivalent) working on any three tasks may trigger a Full Retaliation, but you will have the option of preventing it

at level 4 six rebels working on a specific task may trigger a mini retaliation against that specific task


THANKS AGAIN for your patience and wisdom, brother.
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by LordYanaek »

Jackal wrote: Advent Strength and Advent Alert Level are the same things?
Yes, Alert Level is how it's called in the code, and (unfortunately) that terminology made it to UFOpedia because a lot of the information found there have been learned by searching the config files of the game and sometimes the code itself.

Now that i think of it, this doesn't really help new players :(

Thanks for pointing stuff that wasn't really clear on the wiki :)
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Jackal »

LordYanaek wrote:
Jackal wrote: Advent Strength and Advent Alert Level are the same things?
Yes, Alert Level is how it's called in the code, and (unfortunately) that terminology made it to UFOpedia because a lot of the information found there have been learned by searching the config files of the game and sometimes the code itself.

Now that i think of it, this doesn't really help new players :(

Thanks for pointing stuff that wasn't really clear on the wiki :)

Happy to help... if you ever need someone to locate or become easily confused.. I'M YOUR MAN! This information will make playing this game ever more realistic... I really had no idea how hiding worked or how missions or retaliations were triggered or how to avoid them

also, on a side note: i just got my first downed UFO intel mission and, as I'm sure you know, i discovered that you can

*************************SPOILER ALERT ***************************************






















FIRE A ROCKET AND DISABLE THE BEACON. I dunno if it cost me supplies/tech, but i snuck my shinobi in and there were 8 or more sectoids and snakes standing around the beacon so I let 'em have it.. I got a warning that I was creating friendly fire, but instead of preventing me from turning off the beacon, blowing it up completed the mission... i mean, i still had to kill all the aliens, but i didn't have to go in and disable it...
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Tuhalu »

Jackal wrote:at level 4, any combination of 5 rebels (or the faceless equivalent) working on any three tasks may trigger a Full Retaliation, but you will have the option of preventing it
You'll have the option of preventing it IF you detect the preliminary activity.
Jackal
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Haven/Advent Retal Question

Post by Jackal »

Tuhalu wrote:
Jackal wrote:at level 4, any combination of 5 rebels (or the faceless equivalent) working on any three tasks may trigger a Full Retaliation, but you will have the option of preventing it
You'll have the option of preventing it IF you detect the preliminary activity.
Roger that.

One more thing: If you can't respond to the Retaliation or loose all your rebels during it's course it's still possible (but slow) to rebuild a Haven by using a soldier liaison to


It's "lose all your rebels."
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