1.3 Changelog got updated.

[stefan3iii]

Looks like really good changes across the board. Really like the buffs to Double Tap and AMF, seems much more balanced now with Serial.

New ammo buffs should make it much more interesting for choosing loadouts, though I think EMP rounds will still be really bad given how few mech units there are.

Is "LMGs lose a half-point of damage." talking about the gunner weapon? If so, good change, and a pretty big early game nerf. Seems like rangers may now actually be the best at early game mid range combat, though I suspect gunners will still be king at the end game with Traverse + Rapid Fire, especially at Plasma Tier.

"Shotgun damage reduced to sniper rifle levels." That's -1 damage to shotguns, big Assault nerf which I think is deserved. The close range bonuses on shotguns now will give the game a more LW1 feel, and will probably make them much stronger early on when soldier aim is so bad.

The Shredder nerfs I see are:
- Reduced env damage on Shredder Gun and Shredstorm cannon
- Made getting Exosuits more expensive
Is there more detail on the nerfs? I'm a little skeptical this is enough , did the range on Shredder Cannons at least become normal rather than 1.5 screens away?

I like the acid grenade buff, but still seems like I'd never research\take it. The rupture is great, but +1 isn't enough since most enemies die in 1 or 2 hits. It's a late game tech, I'd rather see it be OP than anemic. Flashbang nerfs are great, but still hope to see buffs to EMP/Poison/Acid/Battlescanner grenades some day, pretty sure I'm still going to be bringing flashbangs, incendiaries, and smoke to every mission while ignoring the other grenades.

[bilfdoffle]

Is "LMGs lose a half-point of damage." talking about the gunner weapon?

yes

technical will scale like crap with their one 'thing' gutted. shinobis got 1 more useful perk and 2 other gutted. Snipers are just going to switch from serial to double tap.

I gotta know what their 'one thing' was that we gutted, as technical's literally only got buffed.

[sarge945]

technical will scale like crap with their one 'thing' gutted. shinobis got 1 more useful perk and 2 other gutted. Snipers are just going to switch from serial to double tap.

I gotta know what their 'one thing' was that we gutted, as technical's literally only got buffed.

Their one thing was dying horribly mid-late-game. You guys nerfed the crap out of that ability! I'm not playing this broken mod anymore! /s

[ndessell]

I gotta know what their 'one thing' was that we gutted, as technical's literally only got buffed.

They nerfed technical ability to be armor-clad bullet sponges.

[Thrombozyt]

They nerfed burnout with the smoke changes - pretty massively.

[8wayz]

Just wanted to add a couple of quick comments before I go through the whole changelog.

Keep in mind that I have also put on hold my Long War 2 campaign, waiting for 1.3 to start a new one adding some cosmetic mods this time.

First of all, thank you Johnny and the team for making Double Tap multi-target, like it was in Long War 1. It is now a different ability compared to Rapid Fire and is well worth the pick.

I would still like to see Long Watch set to 1 action, so you can actually use it. I have it on one of my Snipers trying to make it work, but once you trigger a pod you are better of choosing your target during your turn than relying on Long Watch to pick a random one.

I would also like to underline that changing the ammo count of an ability won't affect it in a meaningful manner. As pointed above, you can simply reload then use another timed ability on your next turn, and Gunners have plenty of those. A better choice in my opinion is to either put timed abilities on the same tier, thus limiting the number you can have on the same soldier, or upping the cooldown timer by 1 or 2 turns. This will give you pause when and where to use your timed abilities.

Currently the Gunner is just spamming abilities left and right, I can not remember the last time I took a normal shot with one.

[Tuhalu]

I'd have to agree that the Technical is now a less tanky class, but the same is true of every class.

• Formidable loses armor for ablative hp.
• Combat Stims loses most of its armor buff (down from 5 to 2).
• Smoke less effective by 5%.
• Dodge and Defense PCS nerfed (by how much is unknown).

On the other hand, Flamer Technicals got some significant buffs.

• Roust now deals about half flamer damage (up from 1!) and flamer damage scales better with higher tier gauntlets.
• Higher tier gauntlets increase the chance of the panic effect with Napalm-X.
• No infiltration penalty and 2 points better aim progression.
• Phosphorous now grants 1 shred to all flamethrower attacks.

Rocket Technicals seem to have recieved minor buffs.

• Rocket damage scales better with higher tier gauntlets.
• No infiltration penalty and 2 points better aim progression.
• Concussion Rocket significantly increases stun/disorient chance, while having a larger radius, more environment damage and more normal damage. Survivors do get the smoke effect instantly now (it was bugged before), but the smoke effect is 5% less. With the accuracy buffs for point blank weapons, assaults and shinobis can have a field day cutting down stunned targets while protected by smoke. Maybe good enough to actually use now?

[Zaramnor]

Is there an option to avoid this update being apllied to my installation? For now, I always get automated workshop updates for my mods, but I would like to have my game as it is now.

[saroscycler]

Any change of fixing the AI-keeps-smashing-through-building bug? Make AI not smash though the environment while at green alert.

[sarge945]

Any change of fixing the AI-keeps-smashing-through-building bug? Make AI not smash though the environment while at green alert.

Yeah it's always hilarious seeing a drone smash through a bunch of building windows on its patrol. Real subtle there, drone

[Kyrsoh]

Any change of fixing the AI-keeps-smashing-through-building bug? Make AI not smash though the environment while at green alert.

This is absolutely barbaric in the game... A fix would be very nice. A pair of Drones or a Sectopod can destroy so much ADVENT property during patrol duty... I think this is the most unrealistic element of the current Long War 2 tactical environment.

[Alketi]

1.3 incentivizes more mobility. "Stand and shoot" cooldown spam remains good, but not as mindlessly effective as it once was.

In regards to the Demolition nerf: Guys, nerfing ammo costs does literally nothing in X2. If I'm using a skill like Hail of Bullets, Satch Fire, Demo, Area Suppression, etc. I'm reloading first, then popping the ability. Making it cost my entire magazine just makes me reload again next turn before using another of the broken Gunner abilities.

I don't know what nerfing ammo cost accomplishes, other than making you use your first action to reload, or popping an autoloader. Doesn't make sense to me.

Making demotion 5 ammo means an almost certain reload before using it, unless it's your opener.

Thus, it means a Gunner most likely CAN'T MOVE AND USE IT, because a reload would also be needed. Thus, Gunners become more stationary, not more mobile. Gunners will need to be placed relatively front/center with all targets in view. That's what the changes imply, that gunners are now a much more stationary class.

[Dlareh]

1.3 incentivizing mobility refers to the fact that mobility is more important tactically, not that gunners became better at it. Gunners are more stationary with more reloading, meaning that when they need to move they'll be shooting less and/or using their special abilities less. That's the point.

Also it matters into the late game, e.g. if they go traverse fire and rapid fire; it'll be impossible to sustain that output while also throwing in an odd demolition or hail of bullets.

[JM01]

Any change of fixing the AI-keeps-smashing-through-building bug? Make AI not smash though the environment while at green alert.

This is absolutely barbaric in the game... A fix would be very nice. A pair of Drones or a Sectopod can destroy so much ADVENT property during patrol duty... I think this is the most unrealistic element of the current Long War 2 tactical environment.

Problem is that this was a problem in vanilla as well. Not sure if Pavonis wants to try and tackle AI patrol pathing as that would require a lot of different weights to be applied to textures for buildings and having the ai calculate that on the fly and also change priorities of those weights at different times like when you activate. A change like that would likely make performance even worse than it already is.

[fowlJ]

Any change of fixing the AI-keeps-smashing-through-building bug? Make AI not smash though the environment while at green alert.

This is absolutely barbaric in the game... A fix would be very nice. A pair of Drones or a Sectopod can destroy so much ADVENT property during patrol duty... I think this is the most unrealistic element of the current Long War 2 tactical environment.

Problem is that this was a problem in vanilla as well. Not sure if Pavonis wants to try and tackle AI patrol pathing as that would require a lot of different weights to be applied to textures for buildings and having the ai calculate that on the fly and also change priorities of those weights at different times like when you activate. A change like that would likely make performance even worse than it already is.

Strictly speaking, I believe inactive enemies (or maybe just enemies you don't currently have vision of, actually) are already supposed to avoid breaking things even in vanilla, though obviously it doesn't work that great.

[JulianSkies]

This is absolutely barbaric in the game... A fix would be very nice. A pair of Drones or a Sectopod can destroy so much ADVENT property during patrol duty... I think this is the most unrealistic element of the current Long War 2 tactical environment.

Problem is that this was a problem in vanilla as well. Not sure if Pavonis wants to try and tackle AI patrol pathing as that would require a lot of different weights to be applied to textures for buildings and having the ai calculate that on the fly and also change priorities of those weights at different times like when you activate. A change like that would likely make performance even worse than it already is.

Strictly speaking, I believe inactive enemies (or maybe just enemies you don't currently have vision of, actually) are already supposed to avoid breaking things even in vanilla, though obviously it doesn't work that great.

I believe that stems from certain enemies ignoring obstacles in their pathfinding (since they can crash right through)

[saroscycler]

Nova should scale with chassis tech level. Also, do Scavenger and Collector give intel and alloys/elerium on extraction missions?

[wobuffet]

Smash and Grab is a step in the right direction, one thing I've noticed is that if you don't have viable supply raids and don't get troop maneuvers you run out of stuff very very fast with little to no way of restocking, particularly in regards to elerium, so this is a good thing.

This got me thinking: what if when you grab a package on a Smash & Grab mission, you learn right away, realtime, what's in it?

This would be a cool strategic–tactical layer interaction: e.g., I'm really only looking for Elerium right now on the strategic layer, so if I find some in my first package of the mission, I'm evac-ing out of there sooner than expected... but if the first 3 packages all lack Elerium, now I've got a tough tactical/strategic decision on my hands.

[Notintheface]

It seems to me that things got better balanced against each other but overall the game got harder.

Esp. in terms of dealing with and surviving large pulls:

- A lot of the "control a lot of aliens at once" skills got nerfed - FB, incendiaries a bit as well (from AGL nerf, not that AGL got used much), aim malus from all kinds of things (disorient, poison, suppression, smoke, red fog). Can argue this works both ways but in practice it is mostly Xcom applying these aim maluses. Even venom and dragon rounds as well.
- A lot of the "kill a lot of aliens at once" skills like Serial, Reaper, Street Sweeper, CCS, shred cannon all got nerfed.
- Minor nerfs to damage here and there - pistols, cannon, shotgun, rupture.
- Also some minor nerfs to defensive abilities (tac sense, hard target, formidable, defensive PCSes) that help you survive these bad pulls.

The changes to abilities that helps you manage large pulls better now are new Hit and Run (can kill 2 a turn), new Double Tap (ditto), and...1 pt more environment damage to sapper and improved concussion rocket?

If I am reading the spirit of the balance changes right, are these changes meant to be balanced by other things (making strategy layer easier, making aliens weaker via lowered defence/dodge, making pods smaller), or is it mostly meant to make the game harder overall?

Not whining about it, more trying to judge if 1.3 is worth another play-through, because I am a rather crappy player that needs some crutches to survive.

[Antifringe]

If I am reading the spirit of the balance changes right, are these changes meant to be balanced by other things (making strategy layer easier, making aliens weaker via lowered defence/dodge, making pods smaller), or is it mostly meant to make the game harder overall?

People always want a big picture narrative about design decisions, but I can almost guarantee that Pavonis aren't really trying to make the game easier or harder, they are just fiddling with different items to keep them in balance with each other. Perks need to be balanced such that all three perks on a row are viable and competitive, no weapon should be the best at everything, etc. These are all interconnecting parts, and there's no way to tell in advance if they will make the game "harder" or "easier" (whatever that means exactly, it's actually a really nebulous concept).

I don't think that Demolition got changed to "make the game harder", it got changed because it was the best cover destruction in the game, and on a class that isn't supposed to be a cover destroyer. I don't think alien defense is being lowered to "make the game easier," it's being changed because getting 50-70% shots on flanked opponents in open terrain was annoying and not fun.

[Zyxpsilon]

... I don't think alien defense is being lowered to "make the game easier," it's being changed because getting 50-70% shots on flanked opponents in open terrain was annoying and not fun.

Yet.. the same could be said of the Ultra-Viper (Naja?) Aiming skills that persistantly hit 99% of their shots at anyone standing even into High-Covers & dealing high damages if not immediate outright kills!! That is far beyond GRAZE principles, btw.

I suspect this "flaw" is caused by some XCom soldiers receiving (very) bad Defense stats that simply nullify a fraction of the Cover advantages or how that system calculations are supposed to work under various conditions including the Viper case above.

[bilfdoffle]

This got me thinking: what if when you grab a package on a Smash & Grab mission, you learn right away, realtime, what's in it?

No, you learn what it is at the end of the mission. Also, the rewards are randomly chosen at the start, and there's nothing preventing multiples of the same reward

[bilfdoffle]

It seems to me that things got better balanced against each other but overall the game got harder.

Esp. in terms of dealing with and surviving large pulls:

The changelog doesn't adequately represent the changes in the schedules. So while your capability of dealing with large pulls might be less (not that I necessarily believe it has), you'll also run into it far less often. You'll see a lot more pods of 2 and 3, as well as more solo drone pods.

[wobuffet]

This got me thinking: what if when you grab a package on a Smash & Grab mission, you learn right away, realtime, what's in it?

No, you learn what it is at the end of the mission. Also, the rewards are randomly chosen at the start, and there's nothing preventing multiples of the same reward

Right. I was making a suggestion, not trying to describe how the mod works now.

Do you think the way it works now is more fun/engaging than finding out what your loot is right away would be?

[Antifringe]

This got me thinking: what if when you grab a package on a Smash & Grab mission, you learn right away, realtime, what's in it?

No, you learn what it is at the end of the mission. Also, the rewards are randomly chosen at the start, and there's nothing preventing multiples of the same reward

Right. I was making a suggestion, not trying to describe how the mod works now.

Do you think the way it works now is more fun/engaging than finding out what your loot is right away would be?

I strongly suspect that the way it works now has everything to do with the realities of modding and nothing to do with deliberate design decisions. X2 already has a tactical loot system, and that system already announces the loot on pick up. But the loot you get from drops are items, whereas the loot you are getting from Smash and Grabs are mostly resources. That may sound like a trivial distinction, but from a code perspective, it's probably a huge difference.