Suggestion classes

[Terradive]

I'd love to see the classes broken out more and better defined. The grenade launcher, sniper, gunner, and shinobi are well defined. The grenade launcher is useful for hitting tightly grouped pods for a few guaranteed hit points. The gunner should be more stationary in my opinion or have less movement allocation. I'd love be to see him have the ability to suppress a very large portion of the battlefield. The sniper is the master of the devestating single attacks. The shinobi also does devastating single attacks but is exposed afterwards. He does have some stealth to counterbalance that though. The assault class is very similar to the shinobi but not left quite as exposed. I think it needs help.

They are masters of their weapons but who is the master of the other weapons?

Where is the pistol master? He needs two trees. One focused on pistol abilities , the other focused on stealthing. He only has a pistol on him which is easy to conceal. Maybe he's the guy that disguises himself and acts like he only wants to verify chest contents.

Where is the rifle master? Rangers are average which is fine but what is their niche? They are differentiated enough from other classes. Their double shot ability anchors them down more than the gunner(the guy that spits out bullets).

Flamethrower this guy needs his own class. There should be an offensive and defensive tree. Offense should include lightning reflexes to get close and personal. Defensive tree should include being able to station himself and throw up clouds of fire that make accuracy difficult.

The rocket man. He needs his own class too. Offense vs group and offense vs single opponent trees. The single opponent rocket attacks are deadly accurate and maybe he carries 4-5 of those at max.

The medic needs broken out too. He loses the gremlin and maybe later on can add it. I'm looking at these trees as a straight medic class with lightning reflexes and blast padding vs a shieldbearer tree. The shieldbearer give shields to everyone carrying a shield receiver. The shieldbearer carries a shield generator in a slot.

The specialist/gadget class. One tree focuses on hacking as it is now, the other gadgets other classes can't use. He should have the ability to have the gremlin reload someone's ammunition like it does with grenades on the gadget side. He should also be able to deploy turrets and land mines.

[Clibanarius]

Sorry, but the Ranger is the rifle master already. There's no need for a pistoleer given how the sidearm functionality works in the game, but if you really want someone like that, there's a mod by Musashi that adds a Gunslinger who sub-specs in stealth or holotargeting. Having two distinct paths with a third generic soldiery spec is how LW2 is. The Specialist already IS a Medic or hacker. The Technical already IS a Rocketeer and Flamethrower. None of what you're asking for makes any sense with LW2 being built upon XCOM2. If it were a mod for XCOM EU/EW, where perk pathing is hard-coded and limited, yeah, more classes with less possibility makes sense. Here it does not.

[sarge945]

I do see some similarities between the classes. And I do think the gunner is too mobile. But they still all have their roles

[stefan3iii]

I actually don't like the weapon focused classes, I think it removes an interesting choice from the game. LW2 has them to some extent, but 90% of the time your weapons will be:
Ranger: Rifle
Assault: Shotgun
Sharpshooter: Sniper
Gunner: Cannon
SMGs on everyone else. Maybe rifle on Specialist.

LW1 had some more interesting choices, like Marksman vs Sniper, LMG vs Cannon, and the SMG/Carbine/Rifle choice. I guess LW2 has weapon mods, but they don't change things as drastically as the weapon choices in LW1.

Another offender is that grenades are so much more powerful on grenadier than anyone else. This makes grenadier item slots very precious, encouraging you to fill them with powerful boosted grenades, while NOT equipping them on the rest of your squad. Smoke grenades are a big exception, and to a lesser extent flashbangs, but you're not going to put anything else on your other soldiers beyond the early game. It basically eliminates a lot of loadout decisions, which is a shame.

[LordYanaek]

I actually don't like the weapon focused classes, I think it removes an interesting choice from the game. LW2 has them to some extent, but 90% of the time your weapons will be:
Ranger: Rifle
Assault: Shotgun
Sharpshooter: Sniper
Gunner: Cannon
SMGs on everyone else. Maybe rifle on Specialist.

I don't really see it this way.

• Assault. Shotgun or Rifle. A hight aim assault who goes Stunner patch works great with a rifle. Will be even better in 1.3. Shotgun is great for other paths but Assault is the master of Shotgun so it makes sense they use it more often.
• Grenadier. SMG/Rifle/Shotgun. Depends on mission, aim and mobility. Shotgun on a high mobility grenadier allows you to deal some damage even when you don't use grenades (good on long missions). A Rifle works wonder with a high aim mix of support and center specs using rapid deployment to throw a sting grenade and then chain-shot with center mass on some non-stunned guy.
• Gunner. No choice here of course Choices would require new models. 1.3 Gunner will be less mobile if you go the cooldown spec due to frequent reload.
• Ranger. Rifle/SMG/Shotgun. Ranger is master of rifle but an SMG on a high mobility-low aim ranger specialized in Point Blanking enemies on short missions works wonder (look at xwynns streams). Shotgun on a high mobility ever-vigilant build is also a lot of fun running behind enemies to eradicate them with free OW shots.
• Sharpshooter. Snapshot is actually LW2 Marksman Rifle. I wish we had another long-rifle class similar to the LW1 scout but apart it wouldn't really find it's place between the Shinobi and the Sharpshooter. Maybe we should allow the Sniper rifle for shinobis.
• Shinobi. SMG/Rifle. Usually SMG is best for those scout shinobis but pure stealth will be harder in 1.3 so a rifle high damage build (with lone wolf giving aim and damage by flanking) might be very useful.
• Specialist. Rifles most of the time unless i'm trying to stealth a mission. SMG just doesn't work well for them as they are rarely very close to the enemy.
• Technical. Rifle for Rocketeer/center spec. SMG/Shotgun (depending on mobility) for Flamethrower. SMG usually allows easier positioning but if you already have very high mobility a shotgun adds a lot of punch for longer missions where you risk running out of fuel.

Another offender is that grenades are so much more powerful on grenadier than anyone else. This makes grenadier item slots very precious, encouraging you to fill them with powerful boosted grenades, while NOT equipping them on the rest of your squad. Smoke grenades are a big exception, and to a lesser extent flashbangs, but you're not going to put anything else on your other soldiers beyond the early game. It basically eliminates a lot of loadout decisions, which is a shame.

Well, there is a lot of options even after you remove the few explosive grenades from other soldiers. Plenty of different vests that can be useful (Hazmat and Tactical are my favorites), ammo, battle scanners, medikit, the almost required plating, overdrive serum (1.3 reverts to not requiring corpses).
Plenty of choices for me.

[DaviBones]

My only input to this thread is: I miss Battle Rifles

They were like the ugly duckling of Long War 1. No one really paid them any attention, but to me they were beautiful!

[Swiftless]

I do see some similarities between the classes. And I do think the gunner is too mobile. But they still all have their roles

While I agree just on the concept, the problem is that mobility is prioritized because of the hard timers that XCOM2 introduced. If the timers were more soft, ie; mission success wasn't entirely based on a timer ticking exactly for the purpose to get you to move, then it wouldn't be a big deal. Snipers are already sort of problematic enough with mobility but at least they have things like squadsight specifically to make that less of an issue.

What I really really don't like about gunners is the combat knife. I was sort of surprised when first playing that they weren't a bit more like grenadiers where their primary weapon is a SMG (I'm looking at you, Blain) and they pull out ol' painless when they need to go really loud. That idea has some gameplay issues in and of itself but I think it thematically makes more sense.

[Sparky79]

Meh, the only "problems" I have with the classes are:
-sharpshooters can only equip sniper rifles. If they could use SMGs they would be a great holo-target + officer combo.
-shinobi ... I would have prefered a different name. Oh noes - what a game breaker.

I kinda agree with gunners and knives and that it might have looked cooler if they had the grenadier thing going on and had the big gun on the back and smg in hand. However that would be weird with reloading.
And gunners also make one action weirder then any other class. When climbing up/down they all hang their weapons from their belt. Can work with smg, bit stretched with rifles and shotguns but no way you can hang a MINIGUN OFF YOUR BELT!

I get why they didnt go for hanging of the back ... well ... I kinda dont. Lets be honest - all secondaries except swords and grenade launchers could have been held on the small of the back like holo-targeter and arc blaster. In fact the gunner sword would look more natural there. Ah well ... would just be happy with SMG sharpshooters.

[Blathergut]

Guys...may seem like an obvious question...but I've not noticed...does 'aim' increase as you go up levels in LW2? I haven't noticed it actually improving, but I also haven't tried to track.

[8wayz]

Aim will improve at every new rank, depending on the soldier's class. You can check the wiki for the complete progression. For example the Sharpshooter should gain a total of 28 Aim at MSGT.

[Blathergut]

thanks...maybe I was just following someone who started really low!

[crimsonsun]

. The assault class is very similar to the shinobi but not left quite as exposed. I think it needs help.

They are masters of their weapons but who is the master of the other weapons?

Where is the rifle master? Rangers are average which is fine but what is their niche? They are differentiated enough from other classes. Their double shot ability anchors them down more than the gunner(the guy that spits out bullets).

Personally I think the Assault class is the most overpowered in the game, close encounters + close combat specialist + Run & Gun makes for one of the highest dps classes in the game. AWC abilities can add a lot more here and they have access to great defensive abilities such as fortify, lightning reflexes and formidable.

Rifle master is the Ranger, though I'd suggest they are the small arms master being experts with Smg's and rifles. You can lay down some serious amounts of Overwatch, fire multiple times during the active round and have plenty of movement/defensive skills to keep you in the middle of the action. Honestly rangers are a fighter I feel is needed in any non stealth specialist team as they bring so much utility. If you find Rangers too static look at ever vigilant and rapid reaction.

The only class I'm not sure of is the Technical, rockets just miss constantly making them hugely unreliable to damn right dangerous so beyond fire-in-the-hole I just don't see the reward being worthwhile to go down that path, the flame thrower is better though its difficult to use effectively as you really need a ton of mobility to get into areas you can toast a group of targets and even then I'm not sure the damage stacks up enough. Roust can be very handy though especially if you have Quick Burn as you can set it up to have a firing squad on overwatch and then force some troublesome targets out into the open. I feel these guys are caught in a difficult choice in gun, as a SMG gives the movement you need to get the most from the flame thrower, but I don't find the class has enough damage buffing skills to make the SMG effective enough at the range they need to be in, so I generally rock shotguns with them. Annoyingly I feel these guys would be ideal for the Exo-Suits if they kept the shredder as it would provide another weapon option for them at the right range but taking it doubles your Rockets and Flaming shots instead which just isn't worth the lack of Armour for them. I imagine they would make good use of pistol skills though that's true of just about any close distance classes its just a case of the training time and the utility slots.

Regarding Grenades I feel they are great on some fighters especially those lacking skills but I fully agree careful use of your Grenadier is essential to any missions where your going to have to actually fight for your victory, the more enemies the more important your Grenadier becomes especially as the enemies become stronger and more numerous. I feel the ability to handle multiple enemies per action becomes increasingly important, as well as making sure squads bring ways of handling different types of targets and Armour. Airdrop could be a great skill for this though I've not given it a shake yet.

Out of interest what Classes do people like using for Leaders? I like the utility of a Specialist in the role but I've found most classes have benefits from being a leader.

As for classes missing from the game, we don't have a Trapper, someone how can utilise stealth to set traps for unwary patrols, a gunslinger would be pretty cool dual pistols for close quarter fighting causing light damage to multiple targets opposed to the heavy targeted damage of the Assault type builds. A Scavanger could be cool, having customisation options for equipment with some looting and utility support skills for the squad.

What guns do you guys give your Psi troopers I've been mainly sticking to Rifles as the tree and thus possible abilities is utter guess work (with a class you've got an idea what sort of skills your going to see from the name) with psi guys your utterly clueless beyond there starting ability. I have to say Fuse is utterly bad ass and the ability of Soul Fire and its improved versions to completely ignore cover makes it great for picking off those annoying dug in Advent Troopers that are in a position where they can't be ignored but you can't get a good bead on them causing you to waste way many actions to remove it otherwise.

Thanks for reading, as ever Crimsonsun

[LordYanaek]

Personally I think the Assault class is the most overpowered in the game, close encounters + close combat specialist + Run & Gun makes for one of the highest dps classes in the game.

CCS get nerfed pretty hard in 1.3 as it will consume 2 ammo per shot so you won't be able to blast an entire pod into oblivion with a single assault. They keep very strong but i think it's fair given they are also a high risk class with the requirement to get into close range.

The only class I'm not sure of is the Technical, rockets just miss constantly making them hugely unreliable to damn right dangerous so beyond fire-in-the-hole I just don't see the reward being worthwhile to go down that path,

The rocket is actually more a late-game tool even thought you get it at squaddie because you actually need some aim to land it with any sort of accuracy. It can be very powerful but definitely needs Fire in the Hole which is a kind of annoying for me as it's a perk i feel you must take no matter what even if there are other good perks at that level or just give up using half of the class secondary at all. A dedicated Rocketeer can still use the flamethrower if they ever end up in a good position to do it but a dedicated Fireman (who took Roust) can't really use the rocket but must still equip it. I'd like to be able to equip either some rockets, flamethrower or a mix.

Annoyingly I feel these guys would be ideal for the Exo-Suits if they kept the shredder as it would provide another weapon option for them at the right range but taking it doubles your Rockets and Flaming shots instead which just isn't worth the lack of Armour for them

4 uses of the flamethrower isn't nothing. A second rocket for someone who can actually use them is also very strong. Shredder is just plain too strong in 1.2 (we'll see how it plays in 1.3) which is why exo is so much better on other classes

Out of interest what Classes do people like using for Leaders? I like the utility of a Specialist in the role but I've found most classes have benefits from being a leader.

I like specialists for utility or sharpshooters to boost your troops (Lead by Example should be fixed in 1.3) but Ranger and Technicals also make very good officers. Shinobis were very good for pure stealth missions but might not be as efficient in 1.3.
1.3 will also offer us Psi-officers thanks to "fast learning" allowing them to train officer perks in half the usual time. This should be the ultimate utility class.

What guns do you guys give your Psi troopers

I tend to go for a rifle or an SMG if they have low mobility but also like the boltcaster on them (partially because no LW2 class is really good at using it with it's single shot). 1.3 might allow some shotgun equipped psi tanks with their ability to stockpile ablative HP.

[Swiftless]

Meh, the only "problems" I have with the classes are:
-sharpshooters can only equip sniper rifles. If they could use SMGs they would be a great holo-target + officer combo.
-shinobi ... I would have prefered a different name. Oh noes - what a game breaker.

I kinda agree with gunners and knives and that it might have looked cooler if they had the grenadier thing going on and had the big gun on the back and smg in hand. However that would be weird with reloading.
And gunners also make one action weirder then any other class. When climbing up/down they all hang their weapons from their belt. Can work with smg, bit stretched with rifles and shotguns but no way you can hang a MINIGUN OFF YOUR BELT!

I get why they didnt go for hanging of the back ... well ... I kinda dont. Lets be honest - all secondaries except swords and grenade launchers could have been held on the small of the back like holo-targeter and arc blaster. In fact the gunner sword would look more natural there. Ah well ... would just be happy with SMG sharpshooters.

Sharpshooters with rifles would be cool. Basically a Ranger with squadsight that can shoot and scoot; would be awesome.

It's also a minor nitpick from vanilla but I've also never understood why the animators decided Gunners should hold the mini-gun like a rifle and then undersling it when firing like you'd normally expect. Maybe they were trying to cut down on having to come up with a ton more idle animations or something?

[JulianSkies]

Meh, the only "problems" I have with the classes are:
-sharpshooters can only equip sniper rifles. If they could use SMGs they would be a great holo-target + officer combo.
-shinobi ... I would have prefered a different name. Oh noes - what a game breaker.

I kinda agree with gunners and knives and that it might have looked cooler if they had the grenadier thing going on and had the big gun on the back and smg in hand. However that would be weird with reloading.
And gunners also make one action weirder then any other class. When climbing up/down they all hang their weapons from their belt. Can work with smg, bit stretched with rifles and shotguns but no way you can hang a MINIGUN OFF YOUR BELT!

I get why they didnt go for hanging of the back ... well ... I kinda dont. Lets be honest - all secondaries except swords and grenade launchers could have been held on the small of the back like holo-targeter and arc blaster. In fact the gunner sword would look more natural there. Ah well ... would just be happy with SMG sharpshooters.

Sharpshooters with rifles would be cool. Basically a Ranger with squadsight that can shoot and scoot; would be awesome.

It's also a minor nitpick from vanilla but I've also never understood why the animators decided Gunners should hold the mini-gun like a rifle and then undersling it when firing like you'd normally expect. Maybe they were trying to cut down on having to come up with a ton more idle animations or something?

Yes, exactly, Swiftless. In order to not have to make different idle animations for different weapons all the weapons use the same idle and movement animations, they differ only in firing. That's why the cannon is held like a rifle.
I remember some interview early on where they did comment that is exactly what they did.