Anyone else struggling W/Smash & Grab Missions?

[Nicklopez2005@gmail.com]

Anyone else struggling with smash and grab missions? I rarely get injures on extremely light missions anymore and so far in the 3 attempts at this mission on extremely light... i've had one where I wiped... one where I came out with 5 injuries(one had to be carried out), and the third was successful with 2 injuries. It seems like the maps are so tiny that by turn 2 i usually pull the entire 8-10 units that spawn in an extremely light mission. Taking a shinobi seems to help with starting the action, but given the size of the map... i'm still fighting 8-10 enemies within no time... and most enemies use the advent facility for good cover. I know 3 attempts is not a lot of playtesting, so I was curious if anyone else is having trouble. It's still early, but perhaps the maps should be slightly bigger? Otherwise, I think this is a good addition to the mod.

[Franzy]

You start unconcealed and pods are usually tightly packed in the center. It's risky to go right into the compaund. Try to pull a pod or two away and deal with them first, and then engage the rest. Snapshot snipers should be pretty good for this mission, imo. Don't let the timer push you too hard Usually it's enough time. (BTW, you actually get one turn more than the timer shows you )

[8wayz]

I am playing on Commander difficulty.

I have only done one Extremely Light one and it was pretty easy. I managed to pull at most 2 pods at a time and that was 4 units in total against my 6 soldiers. I took care of them in two turns.

You might consider getting 1 soldier who can do some selective control - either a Sharpshooter or a Gunner. I had a Sharpshooter on the roof of a building and while he she did not manage to get a kill, she did wound 3 of the enemy units.

[Nicklopez2005@gmail.com]

Yeah I mean if I made it to the compound i usually carry a shotgun in my squad along with a ranger and his handy double barrel. Same setup I go with when going on cell rescue missions and others. The trouble I'm having is making it to the compound... Generally, i've pulled the patrol unit and immediately the other 2 pods run up on the action on the next turn. I know that 3 attempts is not enough to determine a balance issue, but the maps are quite small and when things pop off the other pods have been alerted pretty quickly... given the size of the map.

[Saph7]

Smash and Grabs are meant to be fairly tough. Think of them as mini Supply Raids. Not as bad as a full Supply Raid, but harder than a Troop Column. They're well worth doing though, since they're one of the only ways to get good amounts of Supply in the early game.

Extremely Light Smash & Grabs should be fairly straightforward. Ex Light is only 7-9 enemies, and if you're bringing 5 soldiers, that's good odds. Once you go up to Very Light things get a lot dicier. Try using a Shinobi to scout and a Sharpshooter to engage enemy pods from beyond their visual range. (Snap Shot snipers are pretty good for this, but regular ones work too.) Once all (or nearly all) of the enemies have activated, bring your Shinobi in to help with the big battle. Good luck!

[Nicklopez2005@gmail.com]

Yeah I tried that strategy and ended up getting 5 injured. That's the formula I use for extract missions as well. I mean I have a good handle on that aspect of the game and strategic layer. At least I should, I have over 800 hours in XCOM 2 and 2,000 hours if you combine it with XCOM 1. Generally, 9-10 aliens at once against 5 is manageable.... i think the issue i'm running into is the lack of full cover where you drop in by the desert and the aliens having plenty of full cover along the alien facility. Anyhow... this was really just a thread to see if i'm alone in running into such a struggle on these missions.

[Saph7]

You're definitely not the only one! I found them very difficult in early 1.3. Main thing that I learned is that there's a VERY significant difference between an Ex Light and a Very Light with S&Gs.

[gimrah]

I've found they can be tough fights because you don't have concealment and the pods are close together. I send 6 good soldiers, or 5 of my absolute best at a pinch.

Sometimes I can pull the pods very carefully one at a time but more often than not it turns into one big fight against everything (or at least the third pod joins before the second pod is dead, say).

My preferred classes to bring are:

Tanky sword shinobi. Allows a rapid approach for an otherwise unconcealed squad but you need everyone to be able to fight once it starts. And tanky because I want to send him in not just against the last enemy and he might have to take a hit for the team. I have some high hp, high dodge guys that do pretty well on this. 13 movement is actually ok for this purpose.

Snapshot sharp. Pull pods from squadsight with shinobi spotting. On some maps other sharp builds may be better but you don't quite know. And it's good if the squad plans to say together in case you need everyone to carry a box. And once you breach the compound, a sniper on a hill somewhere is going to struggle with LoS on targets inside the building.

Technical of any build. I find technicals are good in short concentrated fights and that's what S&G usually is (as opposed to say an HQ).

Gunner of any build. I don't tend to use a grenadier for these so area suppression is important. And adds to the ability to fight at range if necessary. Shooty with AP probably preferred so you can deal with MECs.

Arc thrower assault. Just because if you do end up in a ranged fight outside, you don't want to go rushing forward with a shotgun before everything's already active, so a ranged option is good.

Sawn-off ranger. Once you get inside, these guys kill the biggest things. Not so great at range before the big fight starts but maybe you can get some wide flanks with SMG. If available I like to put a battlesuit on these guys so they have something to do in the first half of the big fight.

If necessary, I drop one of the last two as they overlap a bit.

[Thrombozyt]

For the early missions I have learned to use grenades much more liberally (on C/I). With more missions containing fire fights (= loot chance), you can explode a larger percentage of targets while still getting the same amount of loot. So early, while there are still rookies/squaddies involved, I solve high cover with grenades more often than in 1.2.

Remember that the time limit is often rather comfortable, so advance carefully and try to eliminate the pods quickly as you encounter them.

[stringsthings]

I guess I got lucky with my first S&G. I got the high ground early on a really tall building and I had 2 snipers. I also took 7 soldiers total with 3 squaddies. So I had superior numbers. The map was a friendly city map with plenty of cover so I was able to take out 10 advent and only took 1 hit. [ a super lucky shot from a flashbanged trooper with 40 aim on a soldier in elevated low cover ... I didn't notice the shot % but it had to be around 10% at most ]

[Nicklopez2005@gmail.com]

Thanks fellas. I mean now that I know that others are generally pulling multiple pods as well... I'll assume that my experiences are the norm and typical for what to expect and plan accordingly.

[8wayz]

Well, it might be hard not to pull at least 2 pods together for the first firefight.

What I strive for is to activate a pod on turn 1 or 2. That way you severely limit their ability to rendez-vous with a second pod and you will have an extra turn to deal with.

Make sure to get some high ground. Sharpshooters, Rangers and Gunners work well from above. It also gives you some extra defence to make up for the lack of full cover.

Once I have cleared the open space between my rooftop of choice and the compound, I send a team of 3-4 to breach the door and leave at least one soldier on the rooftop to cover for them.

And never underestimate the AI! Even if they keep their position and stay on Overwatch, that might just mean they are waiting for another pod or two to reinforce them. Make sure to advance in an orderly manner and to have someone covering your back.

[LordYanaek]

Only got one so far so i can't really say but watching some xwynns stream it seems like they are not easy missions.
As others i think a Shinobi Scout and a Sharpshooter can be really useful to pull a pod with an alpha strike. It's about the only way to get an alpha strike on ADVENTs out of cover when you start without concealment.

Make sure to get some high ground. Sharpshooters, Rangers and Gunners work well from above. It also gives you some extra defence to make up for the lack of full cover.

Does it without DGG? I thought the high ground defense bonus was gone from XCOM2.

[8wayz]

Well, now that you mention it, I am not so sure. I did spend a lot of time in Long War 1 on top of UFOs, so I might be taking that for granted.

I will give it a test on the next mission. In the XcomGameCore.ini there is only mention of an Aim height bonus.

[Frei_Ninjesus]

I'm sure I read a post a few days ago by one of the Pavonis guys or one of the testers about high ground defense not being a thing in XCOM2, except of course when granted by a perk (DGG in this case).

[gimrah]

Height advantage gives you +10 aim and that's all without perks. You only get a defence boost with DGG.

In fact I don't think any version of EU, EW, X2, LW1 or LW2 has had a defence bonus for height. But it is a common misconception because of the way DGG was worded in EU vanilla.

LW2 actually reduces the value of height from +20 aim to +10 aim, in order to make you interact with more of the map than just the rooftops. But LW2 also has conditional perks that interact with height such as DGG, depth perception, DfA and so forth.

[8wayz]

Oh, XCOM 1 and Long War 1 definitely had innate height defence. Floaters were really scary just because when flying they got some 20 to 30 additional defence (some of them had DGG as well).

[Zyxpsilon]

S&G are a rather simple matter of triggering Pods in some optimal sequence for me. And ideally.. clear the area of most enemies before getting within range of any Loot-Boxes to plan an Evac run cycle.

The whole trick stands on how your exploit the Yellow/Blue moves "limits" to flank'n'gun each enemies one-by-one. In this mission, the "TacticalKillCounter" MOD is extremely useful as you can check & evaluate what the Timer stands at against the amount of active enemies. This way.. the distances involved into grabbing most if not everything are mainly a quadratic equation of at least five dashing frog-leaps all done within maxed Yelllow tiles.

In a few words.. don't rush to the loot but still get rid of every enemies asap.

[fowlJ]

Oh, XCOM 1 and Long War 1 definitely had innate height defence. Floaters were really scary just because when flying they got some 20 to 30 additional defence (some of them had DGG as well).

That wasn't actually 'height' defence, it was flying defence, which they got even if they were lower than you as long as they weren't actually landed. I don't believe non-flying units get defence without DGG.

[gimrah]

Oh, XCOM 1 and Long War 1 definitely had innate height defence. Floaters were really scary just because when flying they got some 20 to 30 additional defence (some of them had DGG as well).

That wasn't actually 'height' defence, it was flying defence, which they got even if they were lower than you as long as they weren't actually landed. I don't believe non-flying units get defence without DGG.

That is correct. Flying was a special thing in EU. And wasn't a function of relative height. It gave a perk called evasion which granted defence. Not to be confused with evasive in LW2 which grants dodge.