1.3 Too many turns, too easy!!

[Andala]

Hey everyone!!

Im experiencing a very easy campaign so far in version 1.3 due to having far too many turns per map. The most turns in a map I've had so far is 20, and I completed it on 7!!!

[DerAva]

The important timer is no longer in the top right corner, it's now in the top left.

[Antifringe]

1.3 effectively turns off the hard timers, which nobody liked, and has replaced them with a soft timer. It may say that you have 20 turns, but somewhere around 8-10 turns you start getting escalating reinforcements every turn.

[Andala]

Yeah, the reinforcement alert. Though, it is dependent on the turn timer i.e. if you have many turns you won't get any enemy reinforcements either.

[deaconivory]

Yeah, the reinforcement alert. Though, it is dependent on the turn timer i.e. if you have many turns you won't get any enemy reinforcements either.

That is not quite true. You will get them now whether you are revealed or not.

[Andala]

It's true that the reinforcement is dependent on the turn timer, and it doesn't have anything to do with being revealed or not. The turns are ticking even when not revealed unless you have the true concealment mod which I dont recommend.

[Andala]

Had my third or so mission now with 20+ turns, and I completed it in 10 to 7 turns. The reinforcements would show up at around 10 turns, so I completed it before they even showed up. I play on Commander.

[chrisb]

Get to September and see if you still think they are too easy

You are in early game don't forget, it's not supposed to be super hard in March.

[Lisranda]

The big factor here that 1.3 changed is that Advent Strength in the region is a huge factor on RNFs now. If you're running in STR 1 or 2 regions, you can breeze like that. In STR 3 things start feeling a little tighter. In STR 4+ you're pretty much getting RNFs on turn 3 or 4.. MAYBE 5 if you rolled awesome variance. And then expect the second wave 2 turns later. And then EVERY turn after that.

[JulianSkies]

1.3 effectively turns off the hard timers, which nobody liked, and has replaced them with a soft timer. It may say that you have 20 turns, but somewhere around 8-10 turns you start getting escalating reinforcements every turn.

Yeah, they replaced the hard timer... With a hard timer you can't see.
Yes I am salty about all the hate on timers and people that somehow think growing strength reinforcements aren't exactly the same thing just more painful to wade through.

[Antifringe]

Uh... they're pretty clearly not the same thing? I missed the timer by two turns, and instead of getting an autowipe, I just had to beeline for the evac. Take a few hits at the end, but got out with the objective and only scattered damage. Not even close to be the same result with the hard timer.

[jkure2]

1.3 effectively turns off the hard timers, which nobody liked, and has replaced them with a soft timer. It may say that you have 20 turns, but somewhere around 8-10 turns you start getting escalating reinforcements every turn.

Yeah, they replaced the hard timer... With a hard timer you can't see.
Yes I am salty about all the hate on timers and people that somehow think growing strength reinforcements aren't exactly the same thing just more painful to wade through.

A hard timer is something that ends the mission. In 1.2 you had 12 turns to get to the evac, that's a hard timer. If you don't make it, your entire squad is gone.

Now, you have 18-22 turns to get to the evac, but reinforcements start dropping in earlier. This is what's known as a soft timer, something that's designed to push to you move quicker and discourage OW camping, but not to obliterate you as a result of variance. (You still might get obliterated as a result of variance, that's XCOM! But it certainly won't be because Firebrand left you to die.)

I'm only in May right now, but I haven't had much trouble with reinforcements at all, I don't think I've ever fought the second wave, and the first wave dies to a full overwatch.

[sacho]

Had my third or so mission now with 20+ turns, and I completed it in 10 to 7 turns. The reinforcements would show up at around 10 turns, so I completed it before they even showed up. I play on Commander.

Commander starts at advent strength 1 which has a significant impact on the missions. Once you get a couple points of strength in the regions you're doing missions they get harder real quick. You can try playing on Legend, which starts at strength 2 immediately(and with extra hp on most aliens).

[JulianSkies]

1.3 effectively turns off the hard timers, which nobody liked, and has replaced them with a soft timer. It may say that you have 20 turns, but somewhere around 8-10 turns you start getting escalating reinforcements every turn.

Yeah, they replaced the hard timer... With a hard timer you can't see.
Yes I am salty about all the hate on timers and people that somehow think growing strength reinforcements aren't exactly the same thing just more painful to wade through.

A hard timer is something that ends the mission. In 1.2 you had 12 turns to get to the evac, that's a hard timer. If you don't make it, your entire squad is gone.

Now, you have 18-22 turns to get to the evac, but reinforcements start dropping in earlier. This is what's known as a soft timer, something that's designed to push to you move quicker and discourage OW camping, but not to obliterate you as a result of variance. (You still might get obliterated as a result of variance, that's XCOM! But it certainly won't be because Firebrand left you to die.)

I'm only in May right now, but I haven't had much trouble with reinforcements at all, I don't think I've ever fought the second wave, and the first wave dies to a full overwatch.

Yes, and by the 12th turn you have enough reinforcements on the field that they are going to wipe your party. Your squad is still gone, you just had to watch it happen.
Of course, it's juts no longer 12 turns since they increased the timer overall (I think it's 16 now? From the looks of it by the 16th or 17th turn you're getting 8-man pods every turn, if there was ever a hard timer that's one).

[gimrah]

Yeah, they replaced the hard timer... With a hard timer you can't see.
Yes I am salty about all the hate on timers and people that somehow think growing strength reinforcements aren't exactly the same thing just more painful to wade through.

A hard timer is something that ends the mission. In 1.2 you had 12 turns to get to the evac, that's a hard timer. If you don't make it, your entire squad is gone.

Now, you have 18-22 turns to get to the evac, but reinforcements start dropping in earlier. This is what's known as a soft timer, something that's designed to push to you move quicker and discourage OW camping, but not to obliterate you as a result of variance. (You still might get obliterated as a result of variance, that's XCOM! But it certainly won't be because Firebrand left you to die.)

I'm only in May right now, but I haven't had much trouble with reinforcements at all, I don't think I've ever fought the second wave, and the first wave dies to a full overwatch.

Yes, and by the 12th turn you have enough reinforcements on the field that they are going to wipe your party. Your squad is still gone, you just had to watch it happen.
Of course, it's juts no longer 12 turns since they increased the timer overall (I think it's 16 now? From the looks of it by the 16th or 17th turn you're getting 8-man pods every turn, if there was ever a hard timer that's one).

The first drop is a pod of 2, the next (a few turns later) is a pod of 3 and then a shorter rest and then it's pods of 4. You should be able to deal with the first couple of drops. You need to be out or all out sprinting by the time the third wave drops. If you are all out sprinting they often drop somewhere behind you and can't catch you (though not always). But even if you get bogged down and it all goes wrong, you are unlikely to get fully wiped, although a soldier or two may get picked off. That's a lot less binary than auto-capture for the whole squad.

In addition there are some perks that are very well suited to that phase, and you may wish to consider for those missions. Notably rapid deployment grenadiers (flash and still double move away) and ever vigilant/OW rangers and specs (kill some rnfs even as you double move each turn).

[Severian]

I really like the replacement of the hard timer with reinforcements. This is something I had advocated way back when XCom 2 came out and think it is a vast improvement on gameplay and realism. In my view, this is the best single change in 1.3.

[LordYanaek]

I really like the replacement of the hard timer with reinforcements. This is something I had advocated way back when XCom 2 came out and think it is a vast improvement on gameplay and realism. In my view, this is the best single change in 1.3.

Not sure if it's the best change but certainly a good one.
Having a chance, as small as it might be, to save at least some of your guys is better than loosing your squad outright.

[cryptc]

Intervention didn't get changed though right? maybe it needs some adjusting to fit the new turn timers?

[gimrah]

Intervention didn't get changed though right? maybe it needs some adjusting to fit the new turn timers?

Great example of what I was talking about. Last night I had a jailbreak and I have rapid response DE up, which makes the rnf countdown shorter. So the rnfs started dropping as I hit the objective and it was a long way to the evac. I killed the first drop of 2. Then killed 1 of the next 3 and just ran, because I didn't want to risk getting to the every turn drops.

Fortunately I had a support grenadier, a lightning reflexes assault and a highly mobile specialist with another smoke grenade. Between those two I was able to flash the remaining advent for one turn and lay down two smoke-covered waypoints for the squad and the escapees, clearing OWs with the assault, and all without slowing down.

EDIT: I didn't actually mean this as a quote. No I don't think intervention got changed. It probably has more use on hacks and destroy relay now, and less on fixed evac missions.

[Bullett00th]

I've made a separate topic about this but I'll repeat here.

Too many reinforcements crash the game for me. I know I'm supposed to evac ASAP but IF I decide to hold out a bit, which I did, I eventually get so many that the game can't handle it anymore, and that's regardless of the video settings.


This is what I finished my last turn with. One more big reinforcement pod spawns in, FPS dips and the game crashes. Can't even finish the mission.
So while I like the idea of soft timers conceptually, technically it may fall victim to XCOM2's poor optimization. Having 8 turns left means nothing)

My rig:
i5 6600
GTX 1080
16GB RAM

[JM01]

Ehhh, I think the turn timers are fine now. The timers for hacking a workstation in an advent facility or train are still the same (8 on Commander+) and now with the much larger number of turns on the other missions with the rnf timers ticking from the start is a great way to balance out how aggressive you have to be versus how cautious you can afford to be. With the new system you still have to try and get out asap but now you have a much longer time before flat out auto failure. You can afford to play just a bit safer but can still lose if playing too safe (i.e. you get overwhelmed with RNFs if you take too long). Also missions like this make the officer perk Jammer even harder to not take . Looks like officers have become way more important in 1.3.