Is wet work worth it now?
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:45 am
Can anyone provide % rough estimates for mission XP vs kill XP? Trying to figure out if wet work is worth picking up in the early game.
http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB3/
http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25936
Ok so to confirm my understanding, if I bring 3 or more soldiers to a mission with 10 enemies, the total XP I get is:Clibanarius wrote:Kills are now worth 100% of a kill (lol) point and Wet Work doubles that to 2x. Each MissionXP is at a 5.8x multiplier, so a mission with 9 enemies and a squad of 3 would get each squad member 17.4 kills worth of exp base. It's probably worth taking now, at least. Before it was 33% by a second 33%, meaning you only got 2/3rds of a kill point per kill. The vast majority of actual experience should still be coming from MissionXP, not kills, though.
edit: I think there's still some classes that aren't at a 5.8x multiplier on mission experience, like the Specialist. But 5.8 is applicable to most of the classes.
They don't get yellow alert when you activate.Clibanarius wrote:Nobody is pushing 0% missions. They're deadly with the yellow alert reaction fire.
JoINRbs is trying it for scientific purposes. Results so far are mixed.Clibanarius wrote:Nobody is pushing 0% missions. They're deadly with the yellow alert reaction fire.
I've been doing the same a little bit. But it's quite dull and not enormously beneficial so I've mostly stopped. Also it skews your soldier stats so that you can't see who has lots of kills due to awesomeness and who has just been farming rnfs.stefan3iii wrote:So after learning more about how this works, I've now been intentionally farming RNFs at the end of each GOP. I'd say I easily get 10 RNF kills each mission before I have to bug out. I could easily see this going up later in the game when my soldiers get stronger.
Conclusions:
1) Farming RNFs is zero risk. Getting 10 kills is worth about 15% of an Extremely Light mission in XP.
2) If you also take wet work, you're getting about 30% of an Extremely Light mission for 10 RNF kills.
3) In general, taking Wet Work is going to increase your XP rate by 15-25% overall, even more if you go crazy farming RNFs, and is almost certainly worth taking as soon as you can.
I thought reinforcements don't give xp, for exactly this reason.stefan3iii wrote:So after learning more about how this works, I've now been intentionally farming RNFs at the end of each GOP. I'd say I easily get 10 RNF kills each mission before I have to bug out. I could easily see this going up later in the game when my soldiers get stronger.
Conclusions:
1) Farming RNFs is zero risk. Getting 10 kills is worth about 15% of an Extremely Light mission in XP.
2) If you also take wet work, you're getting about 30% of an Extremely Light mission for 10 RNF kills.
3) In general, taking Wet Work is going to increase your XP rate by 15-25% overall, even more if you go crazy farming RNFs, and is almost certainly worth taking as soon as you can.
They don't give mission xp, which is the lion's share of the total xp, but they definitely give kill xp.moroniccinamun wrote:I thought reinforcements don't give xp, for exactly this reason.
They probably shouldn't give mission xp. It's definitely a bit of 5 minute tedium to collect your RNF XP at the end of each mission. Might have to house rule this, but first I'm going to push it to find out how broken it is . I'm like 80% sure it's possible to have a squad later in the game that can farm infinite RNFs until everyone has leveled.Antifringe wrote:They don't give mission xp, which is the lion's share of the total xp, but they definitely give kill xp.moroniccinamun wrote:I thought reinforcements don't give xp, for exactly this reason.
Infinite RNFs? Max squad size is 8 on almost all missions now. RNFs can go up to 12 enemies per turn. There is no combination of classes that can farm that number of high level enemies indefinitely.stefan3iii wrote:They probably shouldn't give mission xp. It's definitely a bit of 5 minute tedium to collect your RNF XP at the end of each mission. Might have to house rule this, but first I'm going to push it to find out how broken it is . I'm like 80% sure it's possible to have a squad later in the game that can farm infinite RNFs until everyone has leveled.
Well I bet some combination of traverse fire + rapid fire gunners, hit and run assaults, hit and run/rapid fire shinobis, and rangers could do it. Though it'd be kind of pointless since half those builds are already MSGT . Didn't realize it goes up to 12 reinforcements now.Tuhalu wrote:Infinite RNFs? Max squad size is 8 on almost all missions now. RNFs can go up to 12 enemies per turn. There is no combination of classes that can farm that number of high level enemies indefinitely.stefan3iii wrote:They probably shouldn't give mission xp. It's definitely a bit of 5 minute tedium to collect your RNF XP at the end of each mission. Might have to house rule this, but first I'm going to push it to find out how broken it is . I'm like 80% sure it's possible to have a squad later in the game that can farm infinite RNFs until everyone has leveled.
Yeah I like that idea a lot. It's rather strange that it's sometimes a good idea to not infiltrate a mission fully just to increase XP.Antifringe wrote:My personal preference would be that xp be based on the baseline (eg 100% infiltration) amount of aliens, and nothing else. No kill xp, no bonus xp for underinfiltrating, no loss of xp for over infiltrating. Makes things way less gem-y. Probably is the province of mods, though.
Generally my rule of thumb for whether I'm bothered by something (or find it "gamey") is if it's narratively dissonant. In this case, I don't find that narratively dissonant - it makes sense that if you're part of a squad that successfully completes a very difficult mission you will get more out of the experience than completing a run-of-the-mill mission. What stops the player from doing ALL missions with low infiltration should be the risk (wounds, mission failure, KIAs) in doing so IMO. Not any sort of weird unintuitive (and honestly pretty gamey) penalty to XP for doing a more difficult mission.stefan3iii wrote:Yeah I like that idea a lot. It's rather strange that it's sometimes a good idea to not infiltrate a mission fully just to increase XP.Antifringe wrote:My personal preference would be that xp be based on the baseline (eg 100% infiltration) amount of aliens, and nothing else. No kill xp, no bonus xp for underinfiltrating, no loss of xp for over infiltrating. Makes things way less gem-y. Probably is the province of mods, though.
My take on it is that the infiltration is part of the mission, and slipping into enemy territory is part of soldiering. So I consider the mission to be "equally challenging" for the soldiers regardless of infiltration because they either 1) worked hard and did the mission correctly 2) did a slipshod rush job and then had to make up for their bad technique. You still get more xp for doing missions that have a higher baseline difficulty, which makes more sense to me.mattprice516 wrote:Generally my rule of thumb for whether I'm bothered by something (or find it "gamey") is if it's narratively dissonant. In this case, I don't find that narratively dissonant - it makes sense that if you're part of a squad that successfully completes a very difficult mission you will get more out of the experience than completing a run-of-the-mill mission. What stops the player from doing ALL missions with low infiltration should be the risk (wounds, mission failure, KIAs) in doing so IMO. Not any sort of weird unintuitive (and honestly pretty gamey) penalty to XP for doing a more difficult mission.
Just my $0.02.
If that's the case something will obviously have to be done. But I've yet to see someone actually do it. Can't always make balance changes based on theorycrafting, gotta see that there's an actual real problem.Antifringe wrote: Abusing low percent missions can result in absurd results, like master sargents on month four. You can't balance around something like that, and victory ends up being about gaming the xp system rather than anything that feels like real strategy.