Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

cryptc
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:35 am

Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by cryptc »

So, companion post... what are your least favorite changes in 1.3?

For me it's that the difference between a small and medium squad is basically non-existant. I've had several missions where I put in 3-5 guys and see that I'm not able to infiltrate 100%, so I remove one guy, and the infiltration time barely changes at all... remove a second guy and still barely any difference.

I mean, I understand that they wanted to nerf small squads, but currently there's a lot of edge cases where bringing another guy makes no difference at all... not sure it's balanced quite right.
aceone
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by aceone »

Hi Cryptc,

For me its the enemy low accuracy hits, and the amount of graze hits.

After 50h spent on the 1.3 I am seriously thinking of disabling graze(or making it 2-4%) and installing the cover reduction mod to try to balance the gameplay a bit.

I think on legend now, is waay harder than before.

regards
aceone
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by aceone »

One more thing, which i think is a bug.

A very annoying situation regarding doors.

For example if you go alongside a door not concealed, you don`t see the enemies. Then you open the door and the pod activates. If then, in the same turn you close the door and stay there, you dont see the enemies but the enemies see you and shoot.

I have a situation now where i have 2 guys alongside a closed door and 1 sees the enemies and the other not.

Also a similiar situation, you go to a door concealed, open it you see the enemies, close the door and don`t see them as previously when walking there, but if you move you activate the pod...
cryptc
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by cryptc »

Something else I've only noticed since 1.3 (but might be part of other mods I'm running) is that if my concealed shinobi finds an enemy squad, they get a move, even if they don't see him, and that movement can make them see my other soldiers and fully activate them.

Also I had a situation of a zombie apparantly knowing where my concealed shinobi was when that soldier was the last I had on the map, walking up to him, breaking his concealment and attacking him...
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by gimrah »

cryptc wrote:Something else I've only noticed since 1.3 (but might be part of other mods I'm running) is that if my concealed shinobi finds an enemy squad, they get a move, even if they don't see him, and that movement can make them see my other soldiers and fully activate them.

Also I had a situation of a zombie apparantly knowing where my concealed shinobi was when that soldier was the last I had on the map, walking up to him, breaking his concealment and attacking him...
If pods are getting a scamper on your turn without activating, then that is not LW2 (or at least we've never seen that in testing).
cryptc
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by cryptc »

gimrah wrote: If pods are getting a scamper on your turn without activating, then that is not LW2 (or at least we've never seen that in testing).
Yeah I get their animation like as if they activated, but then they just walk slowly in their normal patrol (during my turn).

Guess I need to figure out what mod does that...
aceone
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by aceone »

Something else i noticed in 1.3 but not in 1.2 is the conceal mechanic.

In 1.2 if my soldiers were concealed but in cover, the enemy could stand very close but not breaking concealment.

In 1.3 i`ve seen so far, being in half cover, or behind a car in full cover, the drones spotted me

maybe that is supposed to be like that, at least for the drones...
LordYanaek
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by LordYanaek »

aceone wrote: In 1.3 i`ve seen so far, being in half cover, or behind a car in full cover, the drones spotted me

maybe that is supposed to be like that, at least for the drones...
LoS can be buggy at times and some high cover might actually not give you any cover at all. It's a Vanilla bug.

The drone thing already existed in 1.2 (and as far as i can tell, always did) but i only observed this when the drones were moving between different altitudes. I always considered this as a bug that works like a hidden feature as drones are supposed to be good at detecting anything unusual.

Least favorite thing. Not sure but it might be the loss of infiltration bonus for very small squads. Stealth is already much harder so i'm not sure this was required. If i see a very low timer mission now i just skip it as there is no way to infiltrate. Trying to run it as a stealth operation with 2-3 guys would probably be a real challenge but there is no reason to try as you barely reduce infiltration time and if you have time to infiltrate, you can bring more guys anyway.
DonCrabio
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by DonCrabio »

Shotgun damage nerf. This is was last bit for me to choose not to play 1.3 at all.
JM01
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by JM01 »

aceone wrote:Hi Cryptc,

For me its the enemy low accuracy hits, and the amount of graze hits.

After 50h spent on the 1.3 I am seriously thinking of disabling graze(or making it 2-4%) and installing the cover reduction mod to try to balance the gameplay a bit.

I think on legend now, is waay harder than before.

regards
I have to agree here. Something feels way off about enemy hits, they are hitting WAYYYY more shots under cover even when suppresed AND flash banged. Granted I could just be getting unlucky and the mod has not been out for too long so I will reserve judgement until I have put in a good amount of time in it but so far it seems that enemies are hitting WAY too many shots that they shouldn't be hitting. The enemy is hitting like 75% of their shots when their average chance to hit is usually below 50% (this doesn't make sense even with graze band at 10%). I've already had too many soldiers get hit with multiple back to back hits with less than 5% chance to hit on the same mission. On top of that my soldiers are also missing tons of flank shots (but that is par for the early game course so in this case I really am just getting unlucky :P).
Jadiel
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by Jadiel »

Almost all the CC-type aim penalties were reduced by 5 (Disorient, Suppression, Poison, Smoke). 5 may not seem like much, but it makes a huge difference to enemies who already have low aim chance. So, for example Advent Officer shooting a soldier in low cover from 6 tiles away while Suppressed and Flashbanged. Under 1.2 he has 75+15-30-25-25=10% chance to hit. Under 1.3, his chance to hit has doubled to 20%. (It may actually be more than that, I'm not sure whether 1.3 range bonuses come into play here.)

So you're going to see a lot more soldiers getting hit. Roughly twice as many more, in fact. And XCOM being XCOM, that means you'll see a lot more low chance shots hit in succession, leading to more soldiers dying...
Severian
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:23 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by Severian »

For me I think it is handling drones early in the game. At the start of the game (CI) the drones have 5 (or is it 4?) health and 2 armour. Early ballistic weapons do so little damage that they are seriously stymied by the armour. I am not sure if the number of drones has increased, or whether it just feels like they do because I am stealthing less, but I am really finding the early game tough because of the drones.

Just last night, in a new campaign, smash and grab mission, a drone is threatening my squad very close. It was actually standing (floating) between two squad members, right next to them. Since they are right next to them, the chance of hitting was very high (>90%) and indeed the first guy takes a shot and hits. 1 damage. *Sigh* So next guy takes a shot and hits. 1 damage. This is a five man squad, but only 4 can get to a firing position on the drone in time. The next guy (a bit further away) fires and misses. Last visible guy fires, hits and you guessed it 1 damage. End turn. Next turn the drone goes down, but only after it stuns one of my guys for 2 turns and my inability to deal with it quickly lets its fellow Advent advance. In a mission that is time critical, like smash and grab, this is a huge problem.

I probably should have grenaded it but would have had to move my adjacent squad mates first (at least one of them) and it seemed a bit of a waste of a grenade.

Another thing I dislike is making me choose between Revival and Combat Protocols for my Specialists. They are both essential imho.
mattprice516
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:49 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by mattprice516 »

JM01 wrote:
aceone wrote:Hi Cryptc,

For me its the enemy low accuracy hits, and the amount of graze hits.

After 50h spent on the 1.3 I am seriously thinking of disabling graze(or making it 2-4%) and installing the cover reduction mod to try to balance the gameplay a bit.

I think on legend now, is waay harder than before.

regards
I have to agree here. Something feels way off about enemy hits, they are hitting WAYYYY more shots under cover even when suppresed AND flash banged. Granted I could just be getting unlucky and the mod has not been out for too long so I will reserve judgement until I have put in a good amount of time in it but so far it seems that enemies are hitting WAY too many shots that they shouldn't be hitting. The enemy is hitting like 75% of their shots when their average chance to hit is usually below 50% (this doesn't make sense even with graze band at 10%). I've already had too many soldiers get hit with multiple back to back hits with less than 5% chance to hit on the same mission. On top of that my soldiers are also missing tons of flank shots (but that is par for the early game course so in this case I really am just getting unlucky :P).
For what it's worth, I don't think anything changed about the to-hit system or graze band between 1.2 and 1.3. The random number generator is the same as it always was.
aceone
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by aceone »

It just happen again and decided to post

Is this a feature of 1.3 , because i don`t recall it on 1.2 ? :
- Enemy gets burn debuff
- if my soldier is in cover then burned enemy wanders
- if my soldier is exposed , enemy hits

As far as I know, when burn debuff, you can only melee...
JM01
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by JM01 »

mattprice516 wrote:
JM01 wrote:
aceone wrote:Hi Cryptc,

For me its the enemy low accuracy hits, and the amount of graze hits.

After 50h spent on the 1.3 I am seriously thinking of disabling graze(or making it 2-4%) and installing the cover reduction mod to try to balance the gameplay a bit.

I think on legend now, is waay harder than before.

regards
I have to agree here. Something feels way off about enemy hits, they are hitting WAYYYY more shots under cover even when suppresed AND flash banged. Granted I could just be getting unlucky and the mod has not been out for too long so I will reserve judgement until I have put in a good amount of time in it but so far it seems that enemies are hitting WAY too many shots that they shouldn't be hitting. The enemy is hitting like 75% of their shots when their average chance to hit is usually below 50% (this doesn't make sense even with graze band at 10%). I've already had too many soldiers get hit with multiple back to back hits with less than 5% chance to hit on the same mission. On top of that my soldiers are also missing tons of flank shots (but that is par for the early game course so in this case I really am just getting unlucky :P).
For what it's worth, I don't think anything changed about the to-hit system or graze band between 1.2 and 1.3. The random number generator is the same as it always was.
Yeah I know, it just feels off but I still need more time to really confirm. Again I think I am just getting super unlucky but some of the shots advent are getting have percentages that are comparable to getting struck by lighting twice in a matter of seconds.
chrisb
Pavonis Dev
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:43 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by chrisb »

aceone wrote:One more thing, which i think is a bug.

A very annoying situation regarding doors.

For example if you go alongside a door not concealed, you don`t see the enemies. Then you open the door and the pod activates. If then, in the same turn you close the door and stay there, you dont see the enemies but the enemies see you and shoot.

I have a situation now where i have 2 guys alongside a closed door and 1 sees the enemies and the other not.

Also a similiar situation, you go to a door concealed, open it you see the enemies, close the door and don`t see them as previously when walking there, but if you move you activate the pod...
I think this is a long-standing vanilla bug. It has to do with the step-out behavior. When the door closes the soldier doesn't stop stepping out. The easiest solution is to use the console to teleport back and forth after closing the door, the soldier will then stop stepping out.
hewhoispale
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by hewhoispale »

JM01 wrote:
mattprice516 wrote:
JM01 wrote: I have to agree here. Something feels way off about enemy hits, they are hitting WAYYYY more shots under cover even when suppresed AND flash banged. Granted I could just be getting unlucky and the mod has not been out for too long so I will reserve judgement until I have put in a good amount of time in it but so far it seems that enemies are hitting WAY too many shots that they shouldn't be hitting. The enemy is hitting like 75% of their shots when their average chance to hit is usually below 50% (this doesn't make sense even with graze band at 10%). I've already had too many soldiers get hit with multiple back to back hits with less than 5% chance to hit on the same mission. On top of that my soldiers are also missing tons of flank shots (but that is par for the early game course so in this case I really am just getting unlucky :P).
For what it's worth, I don't think anything changed about the to-hit system or graze band between 1.2 and 1.3. The random number generator is the same as it always was.
Yeah I know, it just feels off but I still need more time to really confirm. Again I think I am just getting super unlucky but some of the shots advent are getting have percentages that are comparable to getting struck by lighting twice in a matter of seconds.
I had a round where 4 of 5 disoriented ADVENT grazed me on high cover shots. I then had a soldier get grazed and then square hit and murdered in the same round while panic-hunkering in half cover by long range Mk1 gunner shots in two different back-to-back missions.

Might be confirmation bias and bad luck, might be something screwy in the deep math. Not enough personal sample size yet really.
speedmaster
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:30 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by speedmaster »

JM01 wrote:
mattprice516 wrote:
JM01 wrote: I have to agree here. Something feels way off about enemy hits, they are hitting WAYYYY more shots under cover even when suppresed AND flash banged. Granted I could just be getting unlucky and the mod has not been out for too long so I will reserve judgement until I have put in a good amount of time in it but so far it seems that enemies are hitting WAY too many shots that they shouldn't be hitting. The enemy is hitting like 75% of their shots when their average chance to hit is usually below 50% (this doesn't make sense even with graze band at 10%). I've already had too many soldiers get hit with multiple back to back hits with less than 5% chance to hit on the same mission. On top of that my soldiers are also missing tons of flank shots (but that is par for the early game course so in this case I really am just getting unlucky :P).
For what it's worth, I don't think anything changed about the to-hit system or graze band between 1.2 and 1.3. The random number generator is the same as it always was.
Yeah I know, it just feels off but I still need more time to really confirm. Again I think I am just getting super unlucky but some of the shots advent are getting have percentages that are comparable to getting struck by lighting twice in a matter of seconds.
Well I just read this post and damn, didn't realize so many people had the same experience. I was convinced my mod showing me the aim stats was buggy. I at least knew something was off having played every version of LW2 and XCOM. I get what the guy said about "RNG is RNG," but the fights definitely feel like the aliens are playing a stacked deck with regards to the numbers (i.e. guaranteed hits due to some formula). I get 4-10% alien hit chances hitting me for full damage regularly which is utter horse****.
Jadiel
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by Jadiel »

Have you checked that the mod showing you the percentages is correct? I don't know how it calculates the percentages it shows you, but I don't think it uses the same percentages as the game (because the came makes a single roll for crit/hit/dodge, and the mod shows percentages for independent rolls).
deaconivory
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:12 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by deaconivory »

speedmaster wrote: I was convinced my mod showing me the aim stats was buggy.
If you are using Perfect Information it is buggy, and often inaccurate. It has not been updated for Long War 2.
speedmaster
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:30 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by speedmaster »

deaconivory wrote:
speedmaster wrote: I was convinced my mod showing me the aim stats was buggy.
If you are using Perfect Information it is buggy, and often inaccurate. It has not been updated for Long War 2.
I'm not. I use "Additional Icons." I've known PI was bugged for a while, but AI has worked fine for me assuming the numbers are good. After browsing the forum and hearing other people saying the same thing I did, I'm pretty sure its 1.3. Only extraordinarily bad luck can explain the hits otherwise.
Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by Antifringe »

I really enjoy 1.3 overall but I don't like the change to shotgun damage. Run and Gun really needs to kill the target to not be a sacrifice play and it's too reliable now at low levels. I'm letting it play out to give it a fair chance, but so far this is in the "not for me" category.
No big deal, it's all configurable. Err, does anyone remember what the old value were, exactly?

BTW, here are the old and new values for the shotguns, taken from the wiki history page. People might find this useful


|Ballistic || 4-7 || +3 || || || || || ||
|Ballistic || 4-6 || +2 || || || || || || ||

|Laser || 5-10 || +3 || +5 || || 25 || 1 || 1 ||
|Laser || 5-8 || +3 || +5 || || || 25 || 1 || 1 ||

|Magnetic || 7-12 || +4 || || || 45 || 2 || 2 ||
|Magnetic || 6-11 || +4 || || || || 45 || 2 || 2 ||

|Coil || 8-15 || +5 || || 1 || 60 || 3 || 5 ||
|Coil || 8-13 || +5 || || 1 || || 60 || 3 || 5 ||

|Plasma || 9-16 || +8 || || || 80 || 4 || 10 || 1
|Plasma || 10-14 || +8 || || || 1 || 80 || 4 || 10 || 1
JM01
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by JM01 »

deaconivory wrote:
speedmaster wrote: I was convinced my mod showing me the aim stats was buggy.
If you are using Perfect Information it is buggy, and often inaccurate. It has not been updated for Long War 2.
I don't know how often it has been inaccurate but from what I can tell it has been accurate for all of the shots I have seen myself and advent take. I have had soldiers with 0 defense get shot at behind full cover under smoke (so -65 to hit) and an officer with 75 aim had a 10% chance to hit reported by PI. Not sure which scenarios are buggy with it but I know at least in my experience it has been displaying the percentages that I would expect after all of the hit modifiers (defense, cover, other abilities that grant defense).
JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by JulianSkies »

JM01 wrote:
deaconivory wrote:
speedmaster wrote: I was convinced my mod showing me the aim stats was buggy.
If you are using Perfect Information it is buggy, and often inaccurate. It has not been updated for Long War 2.
I don't know how often it has been inaccurate but from what I can tell it has been accurate for all of the shots I have seen myself and advent take. I have had soldiers with 0 defense get shot at behind full cover under smoke (so -65 to hit) and an officer with 75 aim had a 10% chance to hit reported by PI. Not sure which scenarios are buggy with it but I know at least in my experience it has been displaying the percentages that I would expect after all of the hit modifiers (defense, cover, other abilities that grant defense).
The bug with Perfect Information is that it cannot see the graze band.
It also has an issue showing AoE targeting
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Your least favorite things about 1.3 ?

Post by trihero »

I mean if I had "least favorite things" I would first try not to use that wording since it seems negative/complaining, and I would just create highly specific threads with specific titles so people could discuss substantive issues with more productive results.
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