Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

DonCrabio
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by DonCrabio » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:15 am

Well, yesterday my soldier in half-cover was shot two times in a row by simple m2 troops which was flashbanged and suppressed simultaneously. I think there is some error in hit chance calculations.

bountygiver
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:33 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by bountygiver » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:00 am

kreken wrote:could this simply be a conflict with the EU aim rolls mod then?
(i set it up per the instructions to use LW2 aim rolls and just log the info)
I just recently seen this thread and here's what I can say that cause this to happen

Alien shoot xcom -> alien roll hit -> aim assist kicks in (aim assist only kicks in when alien hit or xcom miss) -> aim assist bump chance to 101%, but aim assist for alien only change it to miss if the new chance is < rolled number, so this will make sure aim assist makes no changes to the hit result -> you get hit/grazed

The LW devs did this work around because of previous aim assist clamping, where if an alien shoot with 90% hit chance -> graze band change to 80 hit 20 graze, but rolled a 96, then aim assist kicks in, do nothing to the value (because the config says so), found 96 > 90, then change the result to MISS. But if you are running EU aim rolls, it's ok to change all the config back to 0 because EU aim rolls already fixed this behaviour, where if the aim assist is not touching the hit chance, then it will not touch the results.

If you want to see if you are really unlucky because of all the shots, you can turn on SHOW_ROLLS and see what number they are rolling against you and be convinced that the chances are accurate.

EsoxGreen
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:12 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by EsoxGreen » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:23 pm

I can too confirm that there is something very wonky going on with hit chances. In my game it seems there are two bugs going on:

1) Cover randomly stops registering and soldiers (and Advent) start showing animations as if they are out of cover and do no receive defense bonuses.

2) Flashbanged, supressed enemies hit my troops way too often (not graze!). Purely subjective observation, but really, what are the chances of such an increase?

Can somebody please, please, please look into it? This IS a game-breaking bug!

stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by stefan3iii » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:31 pm

For what it's worth I haven't noticed anything weird.

BTAxis
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by BTAxis » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:27 pm

I use Perfect Information, and a basic ADVENT Trooper (65 aim) that was disoriented still got a reported 40% chance to hit against a soldier standing in full cover who had Aid Protocol cast on him. I don't see how that's possible.

lumber-chick
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:03 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by lumber-chick » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:23 am

On the plus side, I don't see many of these. Still, every few missions there's a soldier or two who I try to protect a lot. It has +20 defense ability (the one from Assault tree but others get it on AWC), +20-25 from Gremlin, and is in full cover or hunkering, and yet the semi-distant troopers or vipers get something like 30% chance to hit on him, where their aim is lower than my defense....

So the bug is there, but hard to pinpoint. I thought maybe Perfect Information was wrong, but I reloaded a few times on some of those, and the enemies hit quite consistently, which would not happen on a real 1% shot that was just shown as 30%.

Also be aware that there are many quirks in the way abilities are activated. For instance, if you activate the +20% defense perk on a unit, and that unit is mind controlled, that perk seems to be deactivated and enemy units can now shoot you with no defense active (much like Disorientation/Stun is removed from MECs upon successful hacking).

There's also the dreaded "this isn't actually cover" cover, as well as "this was full cover last I checked..." bugs (e.g. after reload), but hey, what can you do :)

Steelflame
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Steelflame » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:17 am

BTAxis wrote:I use Perfect Information, and a basic ADVENT Trooper (65 aim) that was disoriented still got a reported 40% chance to hit against a soldier standing in full cover who had Aid Protocol cast on him. I don't see how that's possible.
Make sure you are using LW2's version of Perfect information. The normal PI won't properly handle the graze-band in LW2, which massively skews hit %ages (It's also good to have because it makes your own attacks more consistent when you realize how much the Graze-band is effecting your own attacks).

It makes a lot more sense when you realize that that 65 aim trooper actually has what is effectively a 75 aim stat, with 55 being a normal hit and 20 being a graze hit.

Also, you may well have had a soldier who had innate -10 defense as well as negative dodge of some value, so you only had what was effectively 40-50 defense, not the 60 it looked like you had.



A lot of people don't take into account their own soldier's innate Defense and Dodge stats, which are really important.

Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Psieye » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:46 am

With the caveat that the AI won't shoot at 0%. Meaning a 1% shot is actually an 11% hit chance after default graze and a 0% shot isn't even attempted.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd

lumber-chick
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:03 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by lumber-chick » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:11 pm

Unfortunately the AI does take shots below 0%.

On lightning reflexes.
On super defense-stacked units which have say 90+defense.

However, the latter is likely a bug which on paper looks like 0% but some part of defense doesn't trigger, hence the shot.

Graze is not shown by my mod at least in the number to the left - what it's shown as hit chance there ignores graze band and it is that number that is sometimes clearly too high for aliens - but ill check which version of the mod I have.

Perhaps more interesting would not be bug hunting here but rather discussing your overall attitudes.

What do you do when some big scary deadly bug like this kills your unit? Or actually benefit you?
Do you reload, just keep going, make a mental tally of how many times you were screwed by it? :)

BTAxis
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by BTAxis » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:30 pm

Steelflame wrote:Make sure you are using LW2's version of Perfect information. The normal PI won't properly handle the graze-band in LW2, which massively skews hit %ages (It's also good to have because it makes your own attacks more consistent when you realize how much the Graze-band is effecting your own attacks).
Yep, yep, using the LW2 version, so the 40% I mentioned was the chance of it scoring a FULL hit. And while the soldier did have negative innate defense, between the flashbang, the full cover and the defense protocol it should still have had at most a 65+10-20-20-45=-10% chance of a full hit.

viktri
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:12 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by viktri » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:04 pm

There are certain tiles or combinations of smoke and tiles that get bugged.

There was a full cover tile that is bugged in one of the maps that has the advent flying thing hanger. The control panel area that has full cover doesn't actually provide cover.

I was playing a supply raid today and discovered that hunker, dense smoke, plus half cover led to normal muttons having 58% chance to hit and she got hit 4 full hits (no grazes).

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