Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

JM01
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by JM01 »

Garthor wrote:
JM01 wrote:An it's fine that things like that happen "once in a while" like as in just about never and if it does happen to you once you can be pretty sure that it is likely never going to happen again.
Casinos would love you.
And I also like the apples and oranges you just gave.
Denniz
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Denniz »

Lyzak wrote:
trihero wrote:It would be helpful if you guys collected impartial data on this [...]
Yup, yup. That's why I say "Confirmation bias," and why it'd be such a killer to truly figure out if it's a bug. Can you really imagine asking players to mark shot percentages for every ADVENT or alien attack? To get substantially damning data, you'd need a lot of people, a lot of data per person, and (ideally) identical play environments because, let's be honest, how the heck do you control for 200,000 players with 200,000 different configurations of mods? :lol:

I can personally tell you that I'm not going to be writing down every single shot ADVENT takes at me to compile it for statistical analysis. If only I had that kind of free time in my life right now. :roll:
Perhaps, PI or a modder could create a mission logger to produce a file people could send in for analysis.
RantingRodent
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:01 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by RantingRodent »

JM01 wrote:
Garthor wrote:
JM01 wrote:An it's fine that things like that happen "once in a while" like as in just about never and if it does happen to you once you can be pretty sure that it is likely never going to happen again.
Casinos would love you.
And I also like the apples and oranges you just gave.
I've worked on casino software and video games. Nothing but apples here.
JM01
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by JM01 »

RantingRodent wrote:
JM01 wrote:
Garthor wrote:
Casinos would love you.
And I also like the apples and oranges you just gave.
I've worked on casino software and video games. Nothing but apples here.
Again apples and oranges. As a coder of casino software you know that the software sets the machine to pay out after a certain amount of money has been made by the machine with said software. Comparing a casino which has fixed rules that show the illusion of chance is different to a game that is based all on actual chance (at least to the best of everyone's knowledge there is no code in game to offer a guaranteed hit to the AI if they miss too many times).

That being said, I have stated many times that I am likely just experiencing super bad luck and that just sucks but it happens. This is just the first time I have head this many other people reporting it. I would be happy to be wrong and just unlucky but it's good that people are talking about it to see if we can get this looked into.

On a somewhat related note, it would be nice if someone can make a mod that can take the actual shot percentage of a shot that factors in all possible hit modifiers and logs that into a file that you could look into. This could help.
moroniccinamun
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:18 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by moroniccinamun »

JM01 wrote:
RantingRodent wrote:
JM01 wrote:
And I also like the apples and oranges you just gave.
I've worked on casino software and video games. Nothing but apples here.
Again apples and oranges. As a coder of casino software you know that the software sets the machine to pay out after a certain amount of money has been made by the machine with said software. Comparing a casino which has fixed rules that show the illusion of chance is different to a game that is based all on actual chance (at least to the best of everyone's knowledge there is no code in game to offer a guaranteed hit to the AI if they miss too many times).

That being said, I have stated many times that I am likely just experiencing super bad luck and that just sucks but it happens. This is just the first time I have head this many other people reporting it. I would be happy to be wrong and just unlucky but it's good that people are talking about it to see if we can get this looked into.

On a somewhat related note, it would be nice if someone can make a mod that can take the actual shot percentage of a shot that factors in all possible hit modifiers and logs that into a file that you could look into. This could help.
Funny how Garthor's first and only response is being condescending, while offering nothing of value, and only digs that hole deeper.
RantingRodent
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:01 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by RantingRodent »

JM01 wrote: Again apples and oranges. As a coder of casino software you know that the software sets the machine to pay out after a certain amount of money has been made by the machine with said software. Comparing a casino which has fixed rules that show the illusion of chance is different to a game that is based all on actual chance (at least to the best of everyone's knowledge there is no code in game to offer a guaranteed hit to the AI if they miss too many times).
No, this is not how it works. It doesn't need to. The house always wins over long enough periods of time just by rolling the dice honestly because the games are designed that way. At least when I was still involved, there were laws and regulations that restricted casinos from doing what you describe.

The original point was that low probability events do not become less likely just because they just happened. Casinos rely on this kind of bad thinking about probability to hook people. I suppose they may also rely on superstitions about how casino games are implemented.
Nicklopez2005@gmail.com
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Nicklopez2005@gmail.com »

I have to say I'm starting to wonder the same thing as the OP. I've noticed since I started playing 1.3 that a couple of the enemies were behind full cover but actually showed up as flanked. I've only been playing this version for about a week, but i've noticed a lot of my troops standing straight up behind full cover instead of the animation where they put their back to the cover.... in these instances my troops have been critically hit and dropped as they usually would if they been flanked. I only use cosmetic mods outside of LW2, so I don't think it's a conflict with other mods im using.
DaviBones
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by DaviBones »

Yes gambler's fallacy is a very important part of this discussion. Just because you have been hit by three 30% shots in a row, does not make the next 30% shot any less likely to land. It is still just 30%.

Related: the actual chance of a 78% shot hitting 78 times out of 100 times is actually quite small, given how many other possibilities they are.

Some math -- 3 ADVENT Troopers takes 3 shots in a row at one of your guys, at 30% -- these are the outcomes:
  • All three shots miss -- 70%*70%*70% = 34%
  • One shot hits -- 3*(30%*70%*70%) = 44%
  • Two shots hit -- 3*(30%*30%*70%) = 19%
  • All three shots hit -- 30%*30%*30% = 3%
I am happy to explain this math further if anyone would like, but the point is:
  • 66% chance at least one shot hits
  • 22% chance at least two shots hit.
  • 3% chance all three hit.
Another point about randomness is that saying "this is so unlikely" has little meaning, since EVERY outcome is usually quite unlikely since there are just so many possible outcomes. Even the most likely outcome is usually no more than 10% or even 5% to happen. Super rare things happen constantly, but human nature only notices the ones that are super shitty or super good for us personally.

For further enlightenment on the subject, I highly recommend this Radiolab podcast (by NPR). It is a fascinating listen and really helps our somewhat limited hooman brains understand rare events a bit better.

On the subject of the presence of a bug, I fully agree with justdont in his assessment: to say for sure whether there is an error with LW2 or the RNG, we would need a much larger sample size, which if you would like to collect, the "save scum mod" will likely help a lot.
DaviBones
Posts: 75
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by DaviBones »

Nicklopez2005@gmail.com wrote:I have to say I'm starting to wonder the same thing as the OP. I've noticed since I started playing 1.3 that a couple of the enemies were behind full cover but actually showed up as flanked. I've only been playing this version for about a week, but i've noticed a lot of my troops standing straight up behind full cover instead of the animation where they put their back to the cover.... in these instances my troops have been critically hit and dropped as they usually would if they been flanked. I only use cosmetic mods outside of LW2, so I don't think it's a conflict with other mods im using.
There are absolutely broken high cover tiles which are flanked from the direction they should provide cover from, which have been broken since vanilla XCOM 2. There are 2 examples I can think of right now -- First, most of the vans in the game have a broken tile, which I believe is the second tile from the front (so, the ones by the driver and passenger windows). I know that the edges are safe for sure though (so, by the trunk and the hood). Second there are two tiles in the ADVENT HQ that are bugged -- Hard to describe, but the tile is visible in here, it is the full-cover tile immediately adjacent to Scruffylook (and the symmetric one on the opposite side of that same structure).

From what I understand, this is due to an engine side bug that PI have no control over.
JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by JulianSkies »

JM01 wrote:An it's fine that things like that happen "once in a while" like as in just about never and if it does happen to you once you can be pretty sure that it is likely never going to happen again.
That is exactly why vanilla had the mechanic that adjusted the Actual Hit Chances based on numbers of hits and numbers of misses that happened, the famous aim assist. To be 100% certain that things like that happen only "once in a while" rather than leaving it to actual chance because if you do leave it to actual chance it won't happen only "once in a while".

Turns out a lot of players disliked that feature.
Nicklopez2005@gmail.com
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Nicklopez2005@gmail.com »

Davibones, thanks for sharing this. After 900 hours I hadn't recalled experiencing this bug. However, the occasions where my guys were critically hit after appearing to not be a stance that reflects them being behind cover were in situations different from the ones you spoke of. One was on the corner of a second level of an office building behind full cover and the other was on a full cover above a laundromat type building with a single full cover in the middle above the middle double door entrance. I've also seen my guys that didn't look like they were actually behind cover on many other occasions, but I can't say with certainty where. They appear as the same as they do when they're out in the open at the start of a mission. I never seen this until 1.3... or at least that I can recall and I went directly from playing 1.2 for 150 hours right up until 1.3 was released. The times I saw the officer flanked... once was in the rectangular advent facility often used in resistance rescue missions and the other time the advent soldier was in a park of some sort behind two stacked wooden crate that is used for full cover.

I experienced yet another one just moments ago, where I blew up the garbage stack a advent soldier was hiding behind and yet my aim percentage was still based on if the cover was there even though it showed him flanked outside of the zoomed in aimed screen. I did a save and reload and the stats were showing up correctly. I'm not saying this is definitively a LW2 issue, but I can say that I haven't recalled a scenario where I had flanked shots on enemies that clearly weren't flanked until just this week.
ShockmasterFred
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:01 am

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by ShockmasterFred »

JM01 wrote:
RantingRodent wrote:
JM01 wrote:
And I also like the apples and oranges you just gave.
I've worked on casino software and video games. Nothing but apples here.
Again apples and oranges. As a coder of casino software you know that the software sets the machine to pay out after a certain amount of money has been made by the machine with said software. Comparing a casino which has fixed rules that show the illusion of chance is different to a game that is based all on actual chance (at least to the best of everyone's knowledge there is no code in game to offer a guaranteed hit to the AI if they miss too many times).



That being said, I have stated many times that I am likely just experiencing super bad luck and that just sucks but it happens. This is just the first time I have head this many other people reporting it. I would be happy to be wrong and just unlucky but it's good that people are talking about it to see if we can get this looked into.

On a somewhat related note, it would be nice if someone can make a mod that can take the actual shot percentage of a shot that factors in all possible hit modifiers and logs that into a file that you could look into. This could help.

No, that's not how casino/slot machine software works. In fact, the concept of setting up the machine to pay out only after it has earned a certain amount of money is illegal in Nevada, and the NGC takes it very, very seriously. I live in Vegas and have worked in Casinos. Many people believe that the machines are set up that way, but they aren't. If you guys want to see crazy confirmation bias in action, listen to a group of video poker players talk for an hour. They make us XCOM folks look normal!!
jkure2
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:31 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by jkure2 »

What if you guys are just noticing it more because in 1.3 we're taking many more small-squad missions? I've probably played close to as many 4 man guerrilla ops in 1.3 as I did in the months leading up to it.

Because of the smaller squads and more frequent combat, it's also more frequent that enemies are taking shots at your guys, especially the occasionally uncontrolled one. In turn, this leads to a feeling that you're taking more hits in heavy cover, but really you're also taking many more shots over the course of a campaign.
tracktwo
Long War Dev
Posts: 241
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by tracktwo »

What if you guys are just noticing it more because in 1.3 we're taking many more small-squad missions? I've probably played close to as many 4 man guerrilla ops in 1.3 as I did in the months leading up to it.
I think there might be some truth to this. We didn't (intentionally) change anything related to cover in 1.3. It's not even an area of the game I've looked into at all, to be honest, and I don't know how much of how the game computes cover is even accessible to mods vs. being hidden away in the native code where we can't touch or even really see. So while I can't firmly rule out that 1.3 accidentally introduced a bug here, I think it's pretty unlikely.
If you guys want to see crazy confirmation bias in action, listen to a group of video poker players talk for an hour. They make us XCOM folks look normal!!
This made me LOL. People have been suspicious of XCOM's RNG for as long as I can remember, and AFAIK nobody has ever been able to produce any evidence that it's true, other than the RNG cheating *in your favor* on lower difficulties. I really blame a lot of it on this mechanic, as people get used to the invisible cheating of the RNG and then move up in difficulty and suddenly start to experience what the percentages actually mean in a fair roll.
Nicklopez2005@gmail.com
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Nicklopez2005@gmail.com »

I've actually been taking about the same squad sizes as before. Generally 4-5 people per mission... occasionally, I'll take 6 if the mission timer permits and I haven't taken on a lot of wounds in recent missions. So i don't think that is the case for me anyways. I laugh at people that blame RNG as well... I'm a poker player too, so I know that a 30-40% chance to hit is exactly that and when I miss an 85-90%... it happens! My issue is more so on the stance the soldiers are taking when behind full cover as if they aren't being covered at all... then getting critically hit almost every time I notice the difference in the stance along with having flanking shots on enemies that I shouldn't at all... that's something I would've noticed in the past and yet this week was the first time I can ever recall it happening in my 900 hours. Occasionally, I will have the hack not showing up on cell doors and I save and reload and they appear... that's been around for quite some time, but these flank shots are new. The other thing I can think of is I did just start using the "gotcha again" mod... the updated version of gotcha. Could that be conflicting somehow? Outside of that mod.... everything is is cosmetic.

Also, after posting a reply last night I was on a mission where I had 2 guys adjacent to one another behind half cover. a sectoid and drone came up from the side and the drone flanks one while the sectoid flanks the other.... the one that the sectoid is flanking stands up out of half cover while the other one remains in his stance.
Doctor Sticks
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Doctor Sticks »

I think this may indeed be true.

After starting a new campaign, I loaded up Reliable Damage, and had Damage Roulette activated at 50% as well.

I witnessed a disoriented Advent Trooper hit for 3 damage against full cover. Now, to do the math, full cover offers 45 defense, which combined with the -25 from being disoriented means the trooper is shooting with at 70% penalty. So, there should be no way for him to do any damage at all, let alone 3 damage, when in 1.2, non disoriented Troopers hit for 0-1 usually against full cover (without the Roulette), very rarely for 2 (only against low cover).

I suppose Damage Roulette is a factor, but at 70% penalty, the trooper is left with, what, 5% aim at most? His average damage would have to have been something like 20, in order for Roulette to swing that into a 3 damage shot, after being reduced to the 5% remaining Aim he might have had.
Tuhalu
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Tuhalu »

Doctor Sticks wrote: I witnessed a disoriented Advent Trooper hit for 3 damage against full cover. Now, to do the math, full cover offers 45 defense, which combined with the -25 from being disoriented means the trooper is shooting with at 70% penalty. So, there should be no way for him to do any damage at all, let alone 3 damage, when in 1.2, non disoriented Troopers hit for 0-1 usually against full cover (without the Roulette), very rarely for 2 (only against low cover).

I suppose Damage Roulette is a factor, but at 70% penalty, the trooper is left with, what, 5% aim at most? His average damage would have to have been something like 20, in order for Roulette to swing that into a 3 damage shot, after being reduced to the 5% remaining Aim he might have had.
Disorient, Smoke and Poisoned effects are all now only -20%, so the Trooper would have had 5 more aim than you would have expected in 1.2. The base aim of a Advent Trooper Mk1 is only 65%, but they also benefit from close range bonuses, which would have provided a chance to hit exactly equal to that bonus (up to 30% at 1 tile range in 1.3).
jkure2
Posts: 12
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by jkure2 »

Tuhalu wrote:
Doctor Sticks wrote: I witnessed a disoriented Advent Trooper hit for 3 damage against full cover. Now, to do the math, full cover offers 45 defense, which combined with the -25 from being disoriented means the trooper is shooting with at 70% penalty. So, there should be no way for him to do any damage at all, let alone 3 damage, when in 1.2, non disoriented Troopers hit for 0-1 usually against full cover (without the Roulette), very rarely for 2 (only against low cover).

I suppose Damage Roulette is a factor, but at 70% penalty, the trooper is left with, what, 5% aim at most? His average damage would have to have been something like 20, in order for Roulette to swing that into a 3 damage shot, after being reduced to the 5% remaining Aim he might have had.
Disorient, Smoke and Poisoned effects are all now only -20%, so the Trooper would have had 5 more aim than you would have expected in 1.2. The base aim of a Advent Trooper Mk1 is only 65%, but they also benefit from close range bonuses, which would have provided a chance to hit exactly equal to that bonus (up to 30% at 1 tile range in 1.3).
Also can't forget about the 10 percent graze band
Doctor Sticks
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Doctor Sticks »

Tuhalu wrote:
Doctor Sticks wrote: I witnessed a disoriented Advent Trooper hit for 3 damage against full cover. Now, to do the math, full cover offers 45 defense, which combined with the -25 from being disoriented means the trooper is shooting with at 70% penalty. So, there should be no way for him to do any damage at all, let alone 3 damage, when in 1.2, non disoriented Troopers hit for 0-1 usually against full cover (without the Roulette), very rarely for 2 (only against low cover).

I suppose Damage Roulette is a factor, but at 70% penalty, the trooper is left with, what, 5% aim at most? His average damage would have to have been something like 20, in order for Roulette to swing that into a 3 damage shot, after being reduced to the 5% remaining Aim he might have had.
Disorient, Smoke and Poisoned effects are all now only -20%, so the Trooper would have had 5 more aim than you would have expected in 1.2. The base aim of a Advent Trooper Mk1 is only 65%, but they also benefit from close range bonuses, which would have provided a chance to hit exactly equal to that bonus (up to 30% at 1 tile range in 1.3).

So with -20 due to flashbang, and against full cover, that is still -65% to hit, which reduces their base aim to 1%, which results in 0 damage always (unless they get super lucky, in that case 1 damage). Graze band was turned off (not that it would have changed that much), and the solider was I think 5 tiles away.
fowlJ
Posts: 198
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by fowlJ »

Doctor Sticks wrote:
Tuhalu wrote:
Doctor Sticks wrote: I witnessed a disoriented Advent Trooper hit for 3 damage against full cover. Now, to do the math, full cover offers 45 defense, which combined with the -25 from being disoriented means the trooper is shooting with at 70% penalty. So, there should be no way for him to do any damage at all, let alone 3 damage, when in 1.2, non disoriented Troopers hit for 0-1 usually against full cover (without the Roulette), very rarely for 2 (only against low cover).

I suppose Damage Roulette is a factor, but at 70% penalty, the trooper is left with, what, 5% aim at most? His average damage would have to have been something like 20, in order for Roulette to swing that into a 3 damage shot, after being reduced to the 5% remaining Aim he might have had.
Disorient, Smoke and Poisoned effects are all now only -20%, so the Trooper would have had 5 more aim than you would have expected in 1.2. The base aim of a Advent Trooper Mk1 is only 65%, but they also benefit from close range bonuses, which would have provided a chance to hit exactly equal to that bonus (up to 30% at 1 tile range in 1.3).

So with -20 due to flashbang, and against full cover, that is still -65% to hit, which reduces their base aim to 1%, which results in 0 damage always (unless they get super lucky, in that case 1 damage). Graze band was turned off (not that it would have changed that much), and the solider was I think 5 tiles away.
5 tiles distant has a range modifier of I believe +18 (according to the ufopaedia at least), so that's 18% right there in this situation. The Tactical Dark Events 'ADVENT Scopes' and 'Veteran Units' also grant +5 aim each, so if those are in play it could be up to 28%. I don't know what a Trooper M1's normal damage range is, but occasionally hitting for 3 with Reliable Damage seems like it might be possible.
Doctor Sticks
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Doctor Sticks »

fowlJ wrote:
Doctor Sticks wrote:
Tuhalu wrote: Disorient, Smoke and Poisoned effects are all now only -20%, so the Trooper would have had 5 more aim than you would have expected in 1.2. The base aim of a Advent Trooper Mk1 is only 65%, but they also benefit from close range bonuses, which would have provided a chance to hit exactly equal to that bonus (up to 30% at 1 tile range in 1.3).

So with -20 due to flashbang, and against full cover, that is still -65% to hit, which reduces their base aim to 1%, which results in 0 damage always (unless they get super lucky, in that case 1 damage). Graze band was turned off (not that it would have changed that much), and the solider was I think 5 tiles away.
5 tiles distant has a range modifier of I believe +18 (according to the ufopaedia at least), so that's 18% right there in this situation. The Tactical Dark Events 'ADVENT Scopes' and 'Veteran Units' also grant +5 aim each, so if those are in play it could be up to 28%. I don't know what a Trooper M1's normal damage range is, but occasionally hitting for 3 with Reliable Damage seems like it might be possible.

No Dark events were in play, this was near the beginning of the game, 3rd mission.
I suppose this could have been caused by Roulette somehow, I will continue to play the campaign, without Roulette, and see if I observe similar behavior.
Tuhalu
Posts: 433
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Tuhalu »

Doctor Sticks wrote: No Dark events were in play, this was near the beginning of the game, 3rd mission.
I suppose this could have been caused by Roulette somehow, I will continue to play the campaign, without Roulette, and see if I observe similar behavior.
It sounds like mixing Reliable Damage and Damage Roulette is likely your problem.

Reliable Damage removes damage spread entirely and directly adjusts the weapons base damage based on the accuracy of the shot.

Roulette works by replacing the normal weapon damage spread with its own values. It uses the original base damage of the weapon to calculate the damage spread.

In your cited case, Reliable Damage reduces the damage down to 1 with a spread of 0, making 1 the only possible result. However, Damage Roulette at 50% takes uses the original 3 damage of the weapon and gives you a spread of 2. The end result is that you could get hit for anywhere between 1 and 3 damage.

Note: In XCOM2, 1 damage is the worst possible result of any hit or graze. So there should be no such thing as a shot being reduced to 0 damage.

Note2: The author of Reliable Damage mentions that there are likely to be incompatibility problems with LW2 that may cause numbers other than what you might expect. So there is that too.
Doctor Sticks
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Doctor Sticks »

Tuhalu wrote:
Doctor Sticks wrote: No Dark events were in play, this was near the beginning of the game, 3rd mission.
I suppose this could have been caused by Roulette somehow, I will continue to play the campaign, without Roulette, and see if I observe similar behavior.
It sounds like mixing Reliable Damage and Damage Roulette is likely your problem.

Reliable Damage removes damage spread entirely and directly adjusts the weapons base damage based on the accuracy of the shot.

Roulette works by replacing the normal weapon damage spread with its own values. It uses the original base damage of the weapon to calculate the damage spread.

In your cited case, Reliable Damage reduces the damage down to 1 with a spread of 0, making 1 the only possible result. However, Damage Roulette at 50% takes uses the original 3 damage of the weapon and gives you a spread of 2. The end result is that you could get hit for anywhere between 1 and 3 damage.

Note: In XCOM2, 1 damage is the worst possible result of any hit or graze. So there should be no such thing as a shot being reduced to 0 damage.

Note2: The author of Reliable Damage mentions that there are likely to be incompatibility problems with LW2 that may cause numbers other than what you might expect. So there is that too.

Reliable damage works fine with LW2, and no, the damage is not constant. The mod does recognize the spread, so a 50% chance to hit with an Assault Rifle results in 1.5-2.5 listed damage, and indeed, the damage varies.
Hits for 0 damage do happen a lot, as the mod rounds the damage that is fractional. So, if your listed damage is something like 0.3-0.6, likely due to hitting against high cover and/or disorientation, your expected damage is 0, but it can be rounded. If you roll 0.5 on that, you have a 50% chance to do 0 damage, and 50% chance to cause 1 damage in that case. If you rolled 0.3, you would have only 30% chance to cause 1 damage, and 70% to cause 0 damage.

It is this damage spread that makes the mod appeal to me in LW2, since there is SOME randomness involved. Flanking shots will have something like 2.85-4.32, which could result in as little as 2 damage, but as much as 5 damage, but 3 or 4 are much more likely. Flanking is very good, because the damage against cover would be something like 0.8-1.4 otherwise, and you can see the difference quite clearly.
Drogmyre
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Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by Drogmyre »

Here's my take on the issue, it's a bit different than blaming the RNG.

I really really hate the AI.

Like, FUCK the AI.

In the first Long War, enemies were actually fairly unique depending on type. You could intimidate them in some cases, such as Floaters or Sectoids, you could keep them locked down as they respected suppression and knew that a 5% shot was significantly worse than using their own Suppression on you or running the Opportunist OW shot from your gunner/infantry/medic (your suppressor).

In LW2, and XCOM 2 as a whole, the AI is completely borked.

They respect absolutely nothing, and for some units (fuck you stun lancers and sidewinders) this is totally fine, as it's their job to get in your face.

There is absolutely no excuse for ADVENT and the Ayys to be completely suicidal though, which they are. They will take a 5% to hit in low cover rather than hunkering, suppressing, doing literally ANYTHING ELSE. I'm not sure if this is intended behavior, and I hope it's not, because it's goddamn frustrating to lose a soldier to a VERY lucky shot through full cover when, by all logic, attempting that shot was a fucking terrible decision. They'll run a Suppression when they're 17 tiles away in full cover and are in absolutely no danger whatsoever, UNLESS they run the suppression like idiots to take a 5% to hit shot. Like, why would you do that, that's stupid!

But ADVENT gets away with making terrible decisions all the time because they're legions of their suicidal brethren taking 5% shots at you in full cover.

I really don't like that aspect of the AI. I wish they'd suppress me more, make me think more about how to remove their overwatch or suppression, how to outmaneuver them when they're using special abilities.

As it is, they just shoot at me, and I hope I don't get unlucky. There's really not that much interaction there, the AI is just really dumb.
brunodema
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:45 pm

Re: Aliens hitting me frequently through full cover

Post by brunodema »

Drogmyre wrote:I really don't like that aspect of the AI. I wish they'd suppress me more, make me think more about how to remove their overwatch or suppression, how to outmaneuver them when they're using special abilities.
I might be wrong, but I believe that in LW2 just a few enemies are actually capable of using suppression, while in LW1 almost everything had the ability (perk) to do so.
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