The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post Reply
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by stefan3iii » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:17 pm

I think the AWC is the one of the funnest things in the game. It, more than anything else, adds a roguelike flavor. It's fun to discover what abilities your troops can get, and it's fun to think about how to change up builds based on what the AWC rolled. And sometimes something special happens, like a gunner with fleche and suddenly a useless tech (knives) is actually useful. The replayability and just plain fun it adds is great.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's actually a good strategy to build it early, and then even when you build it training abilities takes so long that it doesn't have enough of an effect on most soldiers. I'd suggest buffing AWC substantially, in fact I'd much rather it err on the side of overpowered, because it makes the game more fun.

Examples:
1) Reduce cost of AWC significantly, encouraging it to be a Day 1 build. Example 50 supply cost.
2) Reduce training time for the non-pistol abilities.
3) Add more training slots.
4) Make it so that a healing scientist still contributes to research. This would be an indirect buff, you'd be more encouraged to build the AWC for the healing and get the random abilities as a bonus. Though really, I'd much rather the random abilities be the primary motivation for the AWC.

Some nerfs to counteract buffs while keeping the fun:
1) Require high soldier rank to unlock perks. Like Tier 3 maybe requires GSGT, etc.
2) Remove/nerf healing power.

Lyzak
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by Lyzak » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Some of your points can be done by editing INI files (ergo you can "do it yourself"). Not all of them, but many. I've been doing some of my own AWC tinkering, and once I have my 'preferred' setup working, I'll probably publish what I did on the forums.

- I can't find an INI file that edits Avenger facility construction costs, but if you're already wanting to tune down training time, it may be less important. Remember that the AWC perks ARE a tactical advantage, so it should be a strategic choice to rush it and have more AWC-trained soldiers... not just a given-to-player sort of thing.

- Training time of abilities can be set in XComLW_AWCPack.ini
- Training time of pistol abilities is set as a multiplier compared to the rest of the abilities. So if you want to make NON-pistol abilities faster, you could decrease the offensive and defensive ability training times and then increase the pistol training time multiplier to bring it closer back to "default."

- I can't find anything in the INIs that might give you more training slots in the AWC, but XComLW_AWCPack.ini DOES have a setting that lets you choose what soldier rank is required before you're allowed to purchase the second slot upgrade

- Someone else around here has suggested making scientists continue to contribute to research but that isn't really the point of your request, is it? Scientists in the AWC only contribute to healing time, not AWC perk training. Especially since one of your counter-balancing suggestions is removing the healing aspect all together.

- XComLW_AWCPack.ini allows you to set what soldier ranks are required per AWC-ability rank

- As a fun bonus, the XComLW_AWCPack.ini file also gives you the power to make more tiers of AWC abilities (more than 3 per type), and change which abilities are available at each tier.

Dlareh
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:41 pm

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by Dlareh » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:41 pm

I would like some of the useless grenade perks and Infighter to be removed, because they're stupid dead ends and you end up not caring about those soldiers' training

But other then that I like the design as it is. Quick study has been a fun new twist
Excitement continues to build as city centers across the globe prepare for the latest incarnation of Groundhog Day.

Lyzak
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by Lyzak » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Dlareh wrote:I would like some of the useless grenade perks and Infighter to be removed, because they're stupid dead ends and you end up not caring about those soldiers' training

But other then that I like the design as it is. Quick study has been a fun new twist
XComLW_AWCPack.ini is your friend.

You'll notice that there's lots of lines that look like this:

Code: Select all

+AWCAbilityTree_Defense=(Level=1, AbilityName="Flashbanger",				ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_Unknown)
Note the tree it's being applied to (AWCAbilityTree_Defense) and the tier of the ability (Level=1). Simply go through each tree and each level, find the abilities you don't like (NOTE: Not all of the abilities will use the names you're expecting to see. You might have to use some inference to find them all) and delete the whole line, voila!

Dlareh
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:41 pm

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by Dlareh » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:37 pm

I am aware of that but have no plans to customize it; my comment was about what I think the default settings should be.
Excitement continues to build as city centers across the globe prepare for the latest incarnation of Groundhog Day.

stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by stefan3iii » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:50 pm

Lyzak wrote: - Someone else around here has suggested making scientists continue to contribute to research but that isn't really the point of your request, is it? Scientists in the AWC only contribute to healing time, not AWC perk training. Especially since one of your counter-balancing suggestions is removing the healing aspect all together.
Hehe that was also me. Either of these accomplish my suggestion:
1) Remove/nerf healing and in exchange buff the fun part of the AWC (ex training speed).
2) Buff healing so that you are encouraged to build an AWC as early as possible, getting the fun part as a side benefit.

Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by Jacke » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:47 pm

Lyzak wrote:- I can't find an INI file that edits Avenger facility construction costs....
It's in the biggie, XComLW_Overhaul.ini.

Code: Select all

+FacilityTable=(FacilityTemplateName="AdvancedWarfareCenter",	BuildDays=14,	Power=-3,	UpkeepCost=0,	RequiredTech="",						SupplyCost=150,	AlloyCost=0,	CrystalCost=0,	CoreCost = 0)

IslamDunk
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:43 am

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by IslamDunk » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:57 pm

On Veteran, I just buy Scientist and Engineer from the get go, GTS after 30~45 days, Psi Lab, and then AWC at the deepest floor (B4 floor, left or right).

Faster healing rate is very nice to have, but you never want to get injured the first place.

stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by stefan3iii » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:16 pm

IslamDunk wrote:On Veteran, I just buy Scientist and Engineer from the get go, GTS after 30~45 days, Psi Lab, and then AWC at the deepest floor (B4 floor, left or right).

Faster healing rate is very nice to have, but you never want to get injured the first place.
Yeah my build order is pretty similar, I like early science:
- 1-2 scientists in March.
- GTS in April for Trial By Fire/Vulture
- May/June is Science Lab for more science, or Proving Ground for incendiary. Usually putting in a workshop at the same time.
- After that whatever, I usually build an AWC if I happen to have a lot of wounded soldiers.

Psi Lab I think suffers from the same problem as AWC, it drains your science too much, and delays other critical tech. The strategic investment just doesn't justify the tactical result, compared to the alternatives (EXOs, incendiaries, better weapons).

IslamDunk
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:43 am

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by IslamDunk » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:13 am

stefan3iii wrote: Psi Lab I think suffers from the same problem as AWC, it drains your science too much, and delays other critical tech. The strategic investment just doesn't justify the tactical result, compared to the alternatives (EXOs, incendiaries, better weapons).
Oh yeah, even though I have started to love the ability to screw aliens through cover, Psi Lab's science drainage is definitely something.
Psi Operatives feel like they are "icing on the cake" rather than the cornerstone. They definitely provide something else in combat, but it is too unique that their methods of dealing enemies cannot be the standard way. And the Science cost for that is slightly overwhelming.
I do not regret building Psi Lab though simply because of Soul Fire and Stasis, and especially Stasis.

Zyxpsilon
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 am

Re: The AWC is my favorite building but...

Post by Zyxpsilon » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:40 am

Lyzak wrote:.. You might have to use some inference to find them all) and delete the whole line, voila!
I highly recommend to NOT delete anything in such INI files & simply put a rem tag ( ; ) at the beginning to just de-activate these Lines.
It's good modding practice to keep track of one's changes directly at the source(s). You never know when the needs arise for other alterations anyway.

Post Reply