XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: (11/7/17 UPDATE: See announcement thread)

dethraker
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by dethraker » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:17 pm

I guess if I were to put down my stance it would be this.

If LWotC doesn't modify or remove the infiltration system then I'm not interested. The system is an artificial way of removing access to both soldiers and gear in a way that is just not enjoyable. WotC does a much better job by allowing access to gear at all times and giving consequencesto taking exhausted soldiers rather than outright removing them for x amount of time.

I like that gear is harder to manage but see no reason to not be able to change gear after infiltration and before the mission. That's fine if they like their infiltration as it is it will just mean that even though LW1 is my favorite game ever LW2 is not for me.

marceror
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by marceror » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:22 am

dethraker wrote:I guess if I were to put down my stance it would be this.

If LWotC doesn't modify or remove the infiltration system then I'm not interested. The system is an artificial way of removing access to both soldiers and gear in a way that is just not enjoyable. WotC does a much better job by allowing access to gear at all times and giving consequencesto taking exhausted soldiers rather than outright removing them for x amount of time.

I like that gear is harder to manage but see no reason to not be able to change gear after infiltration and before the mission. That's fine if they like their infiltration as it is it will just mean that even though LW1 is my favorite game ever LW2 is not for me.
To each their own of course, but I'm finding that the infiltration mechanic is one of the things I'm missing the most while playing WotC, that and having more defined squads/leaders. That was very immersive for me, and I liked the idea that each soldier had their own gear. "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine," and all that. I also loved how even when I had plasma weaponry available, some soldiers were still using Magnetic, or even laser weapons... because a struggling resistance group doesn't always get to bring the best of everything to every field op.

dethraker
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by dethraker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:54 am

marceror wrote:and I liked the idea that each soldier had their own gear. "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine," and all that. I also loved how even when I had plasma weaponry available, some soldiers were still using Magnetic, or even laser weapons... because a struggling resistance group doesn't always get to bring the best of everything to every field op.
But this isn't LW2 at all. Everyone doesn't have their own rifle and all that. I also like that not everyone can get plasma but that can be done in other ways that don't feel forced. LW2 has some good but I don't feel infiltration is one of those personally. Others, like you, feel it's superior to vanilla, it just comes down to preference.

marceror
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by marceror » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:42 am

dethraker wrote:
marceror wrote:and I liked the idea that each soldier had their own gear. "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine," and all that. I also loved how even when I had plasma weaponry available, some soldiers were still using Magnetic, or even laser weapons... because a struggling resistance group doesn't always get to bring the best of everything to every field op.
But this isn't LW2 at all. Everyone doesn't have their own rifle and all that.
When I played they did, or at least the majority did. I named every weapon and kept a spreadsheet so that if someone did need to borrow, I always who knew the real owner was.
I also like that not everyone can get plasma but that can be done in other ways that don't feel forced. LW2 has some good but I don't feel infiltration is one of those personally. Others, like you, feel it's superior to vanilla, it just comes down to preference.
That's pretty much it. We're all wired to enjoy different things. LW2, and LW1, for that matter, really hit the mark for me.

Phaseless
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by Phaseless » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:54 am

For me, LW2 turned XCom 2 around. I played vanilla XCom 2 with some minor gameplay changing mods (like increasing Mission timers because they were so awfully short) but after almost 40 hours, I lost interest.
Now I have to say. Keep in mind, playing a game for 40 hours is not a bad Thing. Many shooters only last you 10 hours.

But to me it Shows how much longevity LW2 pulls out of XCom 2. In vanilla, Progression was way too fast for me. I barely started, and suddenly everybody got Plasma rifles and Archons are running rampant. Full cover? What's that? Is it like Standing out in the open? Because it certainly feels that way!
Fire! Fire everywhere! My guys are dying left and right because of stupid f-ing fire!

Those were some of the Things I hated in vanilla. Game feels better paced, more fair and with enhanced and additional mechanics from LW2 it's very fun and entertaining. Already put more than 160 hours into LW2. I never would have played that Long in vanilla. Ever.
IMO, Xenonauts and Long War 1 were far superior games to vanilla XCom 2.

redsky14
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by redsky14 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:53 pm

Phaseless wrote:For me, LW2 turned XCom 2 around. I played vanilla XCom 2 with some minor gameplay changing mods (like increasing Mission timers because they were so awfully short) but after almost 40 hours, I lost interest.
Now I have to say. Keep in mind, playing a game for 40 hours is not a bad Thing. Many shooters only last you 10 hours.

But to me it Shows how much longevity LW2 pulls out of XCom 2. In vanilla, Progression was way too fast for me. I barely started, and suddenly everybody got Plasma rifles and Archons are running rampant. Full cover? What's that? Is it like Standing out in the open? Because it certainly feels that way!
Fire! Fire everywhere! My guys are dying left and right because of stupid f-ing fire!

Those were some of the Things I hated in vanilla. Game feels better paced, more fair and with enhanced and additional mechanics from LW2 it's very fun and entertaining. Already put more than 160 hours into LW2. I never would have played that Long in vanilla. Ever.
IMO, Xenonauts and Long War 1 were far superior games to vanilla XCom 2.
This. Xenonauts + x divison mod. My God, over 1000 weapons to research. X - divison mod and long war mod are like 10x better then vanilla games for hardcore gamer. I stopped playing WoC, because it was 2 easy and shallow, even i think a was close to the end. The only reason i bought WoC because i was counting that long war mod or some similiar mod would change it to better... with lots more stuff to research and longer battles + better geoscape.

dethraker
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by dethraker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:15 pm

Phaseless wrote:IMO, Xenonauts and Long War 1 were far superior games
This I can agree with 1000%! Long War 1 is far superior to XCom 2 vanilla, but Long War 2 not so much. My dislike is based around 3 things but there's more as well.
1. Infiltration - mechanic feels to forced and doesn't fit well with my preferred playstyle
2. Graze-Band - there are already grazes, it's called a low damage roll
3. Yellow Alert - No words to how much BS this is, its a mechanic that there is literally no way to counter except via reload

Greslin
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by Greslin » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:06 pm

Phaseless wrote:For me, LW2 turned XCom 2 around. I played vanilla XCom 2 with some minor gameplay changing mods (like increasing Mission timers because they were so awfully short) but after almost 40 hours, I lost interest.
This is where I'm at with WoTC. I'll admit: I never actually played vanilla XCom 2 much at all, but rather jumped right in with LW2. So now, going back and playing vanilla WoTC, it just feels like a rushed, jumbled mess of ideas, mechanics, and Star Trek guest stars. After the novelty of the Lost firefights wore off, I quickly got bored with the whole thing and went on to play other games.

I'm willing to admit that the infiltration system isn't perfect (nothing is), and I'm sure it's going to have to be fairly retuned to fit with WoTC mechanics, such as the covert ops system. I just like being forced to weigh the risks of sending my A-team on a relatively long op prep vs. keeping them in reserve for some important job coming up. Yeah, it's frustrating when you have your best people on a 10-day base assault infiltration, and then a UFO hunt dark event pops up and you realize that all you have to stop it is a squad of three low-rank specialists and a gunner who NEVER gets any action. But that's XCom, baby.

I'd hate to lose that. Again, interesting choices and tough calls. That's what LW has always been about, and what it should be about.

dethraker
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by dethraker » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:01 pm

Greslin wrote:I'd hate to lose that. Again, interesting choices and tough calls. That's what LW has always been about, and what it should be about.
Yea but unfortunately that long op doesn't give you the choice between just 2 missions/ops choosing to lock a team and their inventory into an inflation means several days of not having access. Also you're stuck with that gear so if you fully stealth out your gear then there's a good chance that one extremely powerful unit is going to be really tough to take down.

Ideally for me stealth missions and standard missions would be separated in stone fashion, but it also makes sense in my head that way. Even a rag tag group wouldn't go into a mission completely unprepared. Infiltration allows you to see what's there AND better prepare. Even if LWotC only added a feature to "stash" appropriate gear so your squad could be properly geared out that would make more sense to me. Even if that caused more gearto be risked during the mission, [the squad still carrying the stealth gear + mission gear].

This could lead to limiting the amount of times that you can properly infiltrate which makes a bit of sense too. Still, it would come down to personal preference and execution so it could be that this would only make things worse... The team did good for the resources they had available, just not my cup-o-tea this time.

LordYanaek
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by LordYanaek » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:26 pm

I was about to point you to that thread to better discuss infiltration (or fatigue) as a game mechanism but i see you've already posted there. I really don't think this thread is the best place for a lengthy discussion about infiltration. It will soon get mixed with plenty of speculative posts anyway, that's the real purpose of this thread ;)

rakoon79
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by rakoon79 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:59 am

LordYanaek wrote:I was about to point you to that thread to better discuss infiltration (or fatigue) as a game mechanism but i see you've already posted there. I really don't think this thread is the best place for a lengthy discussion about infiltration. It will soon get mixed with plenty of speculative posts anyway, that's the real purpose of this thread ;)
Agreed. I come to this specific post hoping for any possible news. Instead i'm constantly disappointed with what looks like something that could use another specific thread for it

Phaseless
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:13 am

rakoon79 wrote:
LordYanaek wrote:I was about to point you to that thread to better discuss infiltration (or fatigue) as a game mechanism but i see you've already posted there. I really don't think this thread is the best place for a lengthy discussion about infiltration. It will soon get mixed with plenty of speculative posts anyway, that's the real purpose of this thread ;)
Agreed. I come to this specific post hoping for any possible news. Instead i'm constantly disappointed with what looks like something that could use another specific thread for it
If there were News, they would make a new thread because it makes no sense to post News of the beginning of development in a thread that says, no development.
So this is by Default OT all the time because they said what they're gonna say and the rest is speculation and OT.
So this is a playground for OT People and for OT Police who try to hunt them down unsuccessfully.

sarge945
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by sarge945 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:39 am

I think when there is news, it won't be in the form of "we are working on it", it will be in the form of "Long War 1.6 Released+Changelog (WotC Version)"

Phaseless
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:51 am

sarge945 wrote:I think when there is news, it won't be in the form of "we are working on it", it will be in the form of "Long War 1.6 Released+Changelog (WotC Version)"
Hahaha yeah!
In other words:
Instant Christmas 1.6

LordYanaek
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by LordYanaek » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:50 am

Phaseless wrote: So this is a playground for OT People and for OT Police who try to hunt them down unsuccessfully.
OT officer reporting in. Operation failed chief. :lol:

I wasn't trying to police anyone but infiltration is a real and interesting discussion (even if i think everything has already been said but others might think differently) and as you said this topic is for OT discussion (and speculation also). Real and interesting discussions are quickly buried under everything, anything and nothing in OT topics.

Sorry if it sounded like policing, it was rather late yesterday's evening when i posted that.

Phaseless
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:03 am

LordYanaek wrote:
Phaseless wrote: So this is a playground for OT People and for OT Police who try to hunt them down unsuccessfully.
OT officer reporting in. Operation failed chief. :lol:

I wasn't trying to police anyone but infiltration is a real and interesting discussion (even if i think everything has already been said but others might think differently) and as you said this topic is for OT discussion (and speculation also). Real and interesting discussions are quickly buried under everything, anything and nothing in OT topics.

Sorry if it sounded like policing, it was rather late yesterday's evening when i posted that.
Not at all, it was way earlier in that thread what I was referring to. And yeah Infiltration is a giant Topic on it's own, and rather than spoiling this thread a real concern is that valuable Feedback gets lost here while it would have been helpful in the Infiltration specific thread.

Steve-O
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by Steve-O » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:16 pm

Phaseless wrote: Hahaha yeah!
In other words:
Instant Christmas 1.6
I doubt it will be out by Christmas, though. :P

rfriar
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by rfriar » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:09 pm

I'd love that, and I expect there to probably be a XCOM 2 Complete Edition by then, but yeah, I think LWoTC would be out in 2018.

LordYanaek
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by LordYanaek » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:23 pm

Early 2018 would be 1 year from first release of LW2. I could see it released for the anniversary but i hope Pavonis will be able to release it when it's ready rather than having to work with a hard deadline.

rfriar
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by rfriar » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:02 pm

Exactly. When it's done and when they feel ready, no earlier.

dethraker
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by dethraker » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:35 pm

Phaseless wrote:If there were News, they would make a new thread because it makes no sense to post News of the beginning of development in a thread that says, no development.
So this is by Default OT all the time because they said what they're gonna say and the rest is speculation and OT.
So this is a playground for OT People and for OT Police who try to hunt them down unsuccessfully.
Didn't see the point commenting since the police stepped in but yes this very much. That topic for Infiltration died out more or less so I didn't bother posting in there further and my responses in here were always to further explain something addressed by others but w/e when the police tell me I'm off topic it's normally not worth it to continue posting. Thanks though for saying exactly what I was thinking lol.

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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by SonnyWiFiHr » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:24 pm

Hey Devs.
Are you playing Divinity Original Sin 2 ?
It looks like LW2 with magic. Sadly I have to mod game to have squad of 6.
The Preacher

ClodRaker
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by ClodRaker » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:15 pm

SonnyWiFiHr wrote:Hey Devs.
Are you playing Divinity Original Sin 2 ?
It looks like LW2 with magic. Sadly I have to mod game to have squad of 6.
DOS 2 is a great deal of fun. It's a bit more linear than the first one, sadly.

Despite my love for the talents of Jeremy Soule and Nobuo Uematsu, Kirill Pokrovsky may be my favorite composer for fantasy-themed game tracks.

artifixer
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by artifixer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:05 pm

ClodRaker wrote: Despite my love for the talents of Jeremy Soule and Nobuo Uematsu, Kirill Pokrovsky may be my favorite composer for fantasy-themed game tracks.
Yes, he was great composer. Sadly, he died couple years ago, so DOS2 soundtrack made by someone else.

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johnnylump
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Re: XCOM 2 expansion + Long War 2: Nothing to announce

Post by johnnylump » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:44 pm

SonnyWiFiHr wrote:Hey Devs.
Are you playing Divinity Original Sin 2 ?
It looks like LW2 with magic. Sadly I have to mod game to have squad of 6.
Several from our team are, yes.

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