DaviBones wrote:I do like number 2, I think pods should absolutely be hunkering more versus non-visible assailants. Number 4 is good as well. As for the rest, well, I don't see a problem with straight up giving the AI the location of the sharpshooter(s). Makes sense both realism-wise (sniper rifles are incredibly loud even with a suppressor), as well as gameplay-wise.
In the Xwynns video with the supply raid the last pod do know exactly where he is as they follow his exact positions (the entire command pod even climbs the tower he was camping) and he has to relocate multiple times before he can destroy them.
I do like the idea that if they don't know where you are, they hunker. However, the Advent troopers are described as obedient to the point of suicide so it is not unreasonable the officer in the squad would order them forward to try locate the sniper at the cost of their lives.
So your only concern is the AI for pods that can't see anyone? You're fine with the AI when the pod sees someone else? It's not hard to convince the AI to keep flanking themselves to snipers while fighting the rest of your squad. Sometimes they'll take up the exact same tile that a podmate got sniped in. It fits with the lore too: casualty management is something aliens have no concept of.
Advent Troops: Expendable and obedient, can be sent forward to be gunned down
Mutons: Fearless and aggressive, should be easy to coax into dangerous positions
Sneks: These should take cover and be more careful as they are more intelligent than the others
Sectoids: Like snakes, I see them as the sort that would seek out better cover at the rear and hunker
DFA squads will be deadly and should be, right until the enemy gets eyes on them.
You guys realize, that "take cover and hunker" makes sniper fire even more potent? Everything that doesn't involve enemies closing in on the sniper actually plays into their hands.
wobuffet wrote:
(1) Clueless pods sprint away from danger and spread out much wider than normal to cover more area and try to catch a glimpse of XCOM.
(2) Clueless enemies go defensive, seeking out corner cover and hunkering – especially pod leaders.
(3) Clueless pods spread out wide and generally head toward the opposite corner of the map.
(4) Clueless pods that have had multiple members killed disband, with 1 or 2 (sprinting and) transferring to each remaining pod on the map.
(5) (probably too difficult to code) Surviving podmates calculate guesses as to the Squadsight attackers' location from what kind of cover that unit had before being shot: i.e., if the Muton that had north-facing cover just got shot, the pod will head south.
All of these suggestions make snipers more potent in the situation by giving snipers more time. Especially option two means that the DFA sniper has all the time in the world to whittle down the hunkered foe as there is no threat of an actual engagement. It's merely target practice. Option one means you merely have to be more careful with the spotter and then you just pick off the opponent closest to your sniper nest. Option three means that you shoot them at your leisure while they run.
If you want to put more pressure on DFA snipers, massively increase the loudness of sniper rifles so that more pods converge onto the nest more quickly. Though that is a) unrealistic and b) punishes every form of sharpshooter. The whole tactic hinges on finding the right spot and managing the amount of approaching opponents. In the videos provided xwynns was lucky enough not to have enough pods in range that activating one meant that the other would activate on him during the alien turn.
Thrombozyt wrote:You guys realize, that "take cover and hunker" makes sniper fire even more potent? Everything that doesn't involve enemies closing in on the sniper actually plays into their hands.
If you're fighting the only remaining pod on the map, yes. Otherwise, no. Every turn you take to kill that first pod means more opportunity for other pods can run into you, leaving you with multiple active pods who know where you are.
xwynns does comment to that effect. But that doesn't mean he speaks for all high level players (not that saying I'm high level).
A DfA sniper is very situational. It is very powerful in the right situation, i.e. where you have elevation, long sight lines, and no time pressure. They are therefore good at certain key mission types like supply raids, HQs and similar. But they mostly suck on GOps, which is still most missions until the very late game.
A snapshot sniper is much more flexible. If a GOp map offers a good sniper perch, he can still snipe, just not as well as a DfA sniper. But if there isn't then he can stay with the squad as a shooter. A good example of where snapshot snipers shine is Smash & Grab: if there is elevation and enemies outside, then it's great to sniper; if not it's still nice when you don't have concealment to get a BVA shot to activate; and the ability to move and shoot is essential in the kind of indoor fights which you get a lot of in S&G.
I use all three types. I think holobots are the weakest, but they have a role and it's something your 55 aim gatecrasher rookie can do after he decides to make himself a sharpshooter.
Frankly my own view is that xwynns has a bit of a blind spot with sharpshooters despite being a top player who provides loads of good balance input. I watch him go nuts when Josh kills something but then not really register the fact he then doesn't have shots for 3 turns in a row. He seems to think it's OP to be able to add command to the refunded action to get a second shot, even though every other soldier can get a second shot from command without needing a special perk.
gimrah wrote:I use all three types. I think holobots are the weakest, but they have a role and it's something your 55 aim gatecrasher rookie can do after he decides to make himself a sharpshooter.
@gimrah: If you as a veteran of a lot of playtesting say all three are usable, I think that carries a lot of weight.
Would you agree that Rapid Targeting could probably use a boost (shorter cooldown, at least)? How about Snap Shot?
Holobots is very usable as officers for combat heavy missions like HQ's or Supply Raids as they stay with the squad and continuously buff squad damage output and accuracy. Even 55 AIM holobot get to 83 on MSGT level, with scope, elevation and holotargeting they rarely miss something. My main issue with holobots is leveling them up. They don't do much on GOPS missions, generally they are just dead weight there.
I honestly don't think snapshot needs any more buffs. The range penalty for snapshot got reduced and there are no penalties if you shoot with the first action. (Granted you don't get the negation of squadsight penalty that DfA grants but that but easily offset with DGG and/or LW.)
As for rapid targeting... If you're making a dedicated holobot, which I usually do, I think it's fine. Critically it has the passive ability that means regular holotargeting with your first action doesn't end the turn. That means you can tag 2 targets every turn or 3 when using RT's active ability. I think the combination makes it the definitive perk for holobot. If you wanted to build some kind of hybrid that actually uses its rifle then you're mostly only taking RT for the active ability most of the time and the cooldown hurts. So I guess the moral is don't take RT if you intend to shoot much.
General consensus is that independent targeting is the least useful perk on the middle limb of the tree. But's at least it's up against weak competition in Long Watch and Low Profile so it may or may not get anything done about it.
I'm one of the other Legend balance testers, and IMO the Sharpshooter LCPL perks are some of the most interesting and well-balanced in the game. It's one of the only ranks in LW2 where I'll typically pick all three perks over the course of a campaign (as opposed to something like LCPL Technical where I pick the same thing every time, since there's no reason to take anything else).
DfA sharps are, as pointed out, extremely powerful in the right situations, namely missions where you have high ground, long sight lines, and no time pressure. This describes maybe 10% of missions. There's another 10%-20% of missions where they kinda-sorta-work (Smash & Grabs where you have good terrain, regular GOPs where you get lucky with the evac placement). The remaining 75% of the time, they're crap. DfA sharps are the only soldiers in the game that have absolutely no ability to move and attack, which is a pretty big problem given that the vast majority of missions you'll play in a LW2 campaign involve crossing the map to the objective. My DfA snipers typically spend most of April, May, and June sitting in a haven twiddling their thumbs.
Centre column holo builds are your backup option for when that 50-something aim rookie decides to become a sharpshooter. If you're lucky, you'll get Covert or Ghostwalker in the AWC, and they can become very effective scouts. Having one holo scout on your roster is very handy for missions like HQs or long supply raids, since they give you scouting while still being able to usefully contribute once fighting starts. They also work as officers, though I typically find that they spend all their actions on holotargeting already. There's also the holo hybrid build, where you pick the holo perks but build the sniper with a view towards taking shots. I've never really seen the need for it, but I know Jo likes it.
Snap Shot sharpshooters are a middle ground between a stationary sharpshooter and a move-and-shoot class like a Gunner or Ranger. They give you the key Squadsight ability without compromising your mobility. They're extremely good on Destroy Relay missions, and also work well on Extracts and Smash & Grabs, especially when paired up with a Phantom scout. My Snap Shot sharpshooter in my last campaign was actually my first soldier to reach Master Sergeant. Their drawback is that they don't scale as well as DfA sharps, but then, if they did, they'd be completely broken, so that's just as well.
I choose a sharpshooter's LCPL perk based on the following:
• High aim, low mobility: DfA
• Low aim, high mobility: Rapid Targeting
• High aim, high mobility: Snap Shot
• Low aim, low mobility: You're going into a haven, it really doesn't matter.