Arguments Regarding Squad Upgrades & More

[Doctor Sticks]

Warning - Incoming Wall of Text.

One of the things that has changed from Vanilla to LW was the complete removal of all "squad" upgrades; that is upgrades that change an item that is otherwise infinite (like medkits) to a better one, and making all researched items and weapons purchased one-at-a-time, and likewise, being lose if a solider is killed and not recovered.

This, in-turn, has made losing soldiers a much more punishing event, since you are not only losing a good solider, but also valuable gear. Squadwipes are truly disasterous, and can end a campaign, quickly or slowly.

With 1.5 coming out, and the addition of RNG into Fire Grenades, I begin to look over LW and think about some aspects that disagree with me, and would like input from more experienced players.

RNG balancing is, to me, an affront that should never occur, but that is just my inner chess player talking. I would be ok with less predictable outcomes in missions, if mission losses weren't so devastating. As is, the player can't really afford many losses, especially, since gear is lost as well.

So I would like to make some suggestions:

Make all weapons into squad upgrades again. Basic and Advanced to cover primary weapons, with separate ones for secondary weapons. Predator and Warden armors should also be squad upgrades, but NOT Exo, War, etc... Instead, I think these armors should be expensive, but also powerful, and built one-at-a-time, as these are unique upgrades. Items that are direct upgrades over existing items, like Nanomedkits, Plasma Grenades, and the Bombs should also be squad upgrades. I was REALLY pissed off when I found out that, after having to fork out a hefty sum for the Plasma Grenade upgrades, I then had to ALSO pay for each individual grenade, which costs an Elerium Core. Even more so, after Advanced Explosives, (a pricy upgrade which also required Plasma Grenades), I STILL had to make the bombs one at a time, all for a measly one extra AOE, hardly worth the effort for anything other than Fire Grenades.
Which brings me to.......

Fire Grenades seem to be responsible here, being by far the only researched grenade to be even remotely useful. I completely understand the nerf, BUT think that it should be handled differently. If complete shutdown on an alien is too good, simply change the functionality of fire, and give it more radius. Other grenades should be competitive, and it should be worthwhile to try to research Advanced Explosives.

So, the summary, for those who are getting tired of my complaining is this:

Bring back squad upgrades, but not for EXO, WAR, Shadow, and Spider Armors, and definitely not stuff like Shredstorm Cannon and Plasma Blaster (buff the blaster please).
Automatically upgrade medkits, frags -> Plasma, and other grenades into Bombs automatically when the appropriate project is complete. Otherwise, I don't see these items ever being used.
Adjust prices accordingly. A squad upgrade of basic Mags (which would cover rifle, SMG, pistol) could be something like the cost of 6 actual rifles (or whatever the team deems appropriate).
Adjust prices accordingly.

As I stated, feedback is welcome. I am definitely in the "LW should be a fun experience" camp, as you can tell.

[ginyu549]

I like LW2 to be fun as well, and quite frankly I do find the micro-management of gear to be a tedious experience. It's rather un-fun to have to move around equipment all the time, however, I do appreciate the gritty-ness of doing it. It makes it feel more like an older game that didn't care so much about the game experience as it did making the game more realistic and less of a "video game". So I can see it both ways.

The great thing about this game though is that you can mod it to be almost exactly what you want.

If gear is causing you headaches you can easily grab a mod and give yourself more supplies, or use a loot mod to get more loot, etc... I was quite fond of using the "loot pinatas" mod with LW2 on my first play through (worked fine). After that though I thought it was making it too easy, so I removed it. It's up to you.

I'm pretty sure squad upgrades are NOT going to make a comeback for LW2, that just doesn't seem like it's in the cards.

I agree that the grenades need a buff/balance pass besides fire. That argument has a whole thread though, so I won't go into it here.

But if you want it easier, there is a whole slew of other mods out there to make it easier, try some out. I'm sure you can find a mix of things that will improve your experience.

[oesis]

Personally I prefer the way LW 2 does it. Removing Squad upgrades creates smaller power spikes, instead of large changes to squad effectiveness when you finish a research. If something was to difficult to get, id rather decrease it's cost or research, over making it a squad upgrade.

[Rikokrates]

The problem I can see with mass upgrades is the cost. To upgrade all your soldiers individually is naturally extremely expensive but you can do it piece by piece. I like to run squads with a mixture of gear sometimes ranging from ballistics through to mag. I find the economy aspect interesting as it's a fine balance picking and choosing what you build and when, your priorities can change a lot and quickly, also it can vary from campaign to campaign.

I feel if the change is made to vanilla style upgrades it will be a huge expense and reduces your flexibility, I feel like some research projects are already linear, I'd hate to see the economy go the same way, having said that I do understand the grenades gripe, but once again I guess it's to balance so you can't give everyone fire bombs and have 20 on a mission...

[wobuffet]

Personally I prefer the way LW 2 does it. Removing Squad upgrades creates smaller power spikes, instead of large changes to squad effectiveness when you finish a research. If something was to difficult to get, id rather decrease it's cost or research, over making it a squad upgrade.

I like the gradual nature of upgrades in LW2 too.

How about a "Advanced Prototyping" project (research or Proving Ground) that yields extra prototypes when a new item is researched?

Another idea is to split the weapon research projects further: e.g., break up "Laser Weapons" into

• "Lightweight Laser Weapons" (SMG, Pistol) and
• "Midweight Laser Weapons" (Rifle, Shotgun),

(1) which become available at the same time (so you have to choose which to research first) and
(2) must both be researched to get to Advanced Lasers.
This would create more prototypes, lessen research resource strains, and introduce a bit more player choice.

[wobuffet]

I like LW2 to be fun as well, and quite frankly I do find the micro-management of gear to be a tedious experience.

A couple ideas to reduce fiddliness:

• Lock in weapon upgrades: Have a few more weapon upgrade parts dropped in loot, but make them be locked in (like in vanilla) so I'm not tempted to fiddle around with them. (And throw out the continent bonus that allows more fiddling).
• Locked item slot: (ridiculously implausible idea) Have one utility slot per soldier be locked (like PCS's) to make that item a soldier-specific commitment and reduce fiddliness.
• Previous Loadout clicky button: Have a UI button (either per-soldier or squadwide) on the loadout screen that loads the last loadout onto each soldier (or as close as possible).

[Thrombozyt]

The squad upgrades in vanilla was one of the biggest turn-offs. Standardized gear on a rag-tag rebellion squad? It's ridiculous and makes for huge leaps in power once an upgrade is purchased. It completely removes a huge area of player skill - to fine tune which gear is needed and how to position soldiers in the fight in regards to what gear they have.

It would also completely negate any reason to pick up a dead comrade and carry his/her body to the evac.

I would even go in the opposite direction:
- double the price for gear you build
- enable ammo/grenades/armor/weapons to be 'liberated' either in loots, as weapon caches hidden in maps or as part of a smash&grab
- the tech level would determine what you could find and for gear you don't know to produce yet you would need to pay supply upkeep

[Exquisitor]

An easy fix would be to make supplies more plentiful. The smash and grabs only go so far and are not that common, plus I got a measly 30 supplies on one smash and grab plus a few miscellaneous upgrades. It seemed rather stingey.