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I noticed that the Conceal ability on the Shinobi now ends your turn. In 1.2 it was actually a free action. It feels a bit over-nerfed now for a MSGT perk. I understand wanting to prevent stealth cheese, so maybe it could just have multiple charges? Like 2 charges of Conceal wouldn't really help with stealth missions, but would make the ability feel more powerful in normal missions.

Given that you can't really stealth missions in 1.4 anyway, I think this whole ability is borderline useless. Compare it with Serial, AMF or Chain Lightning or Capacitor Discharge and it is just sad.

I took it on exactly 2 full scout shinobis but that's only because full scout shinobis reach their maximum efficiency at Sgt level withCcovert and everything above is just filler perks (Tradecraft is somewhat useful). I wasn't excited to reach MSgt with either of those.

EDIT : Now that i think anout it, the second full scout isn't even MSgt yet, you see how much i care about Conceal

EsoxGreen wrote:Given that you can't really stealth missions in 1.4 anyway, I think this whole ability is borderline useless. Compare it with Serial, AMF or Chain Lightning or Capacitor Discharge and it is just sad.

You can actually stealth missions in 1.4. You don't even need Conceal to do it, all you need is a Shinobi and a specialist with an Emergency Life Support PCS. The Conceal nerf didn't kill stealth missions and actually if they harder it's mostly due to the changes in Pod composition. The conceal nerf however completely killed the Assassin Shinobi who was previously capable of reliably killing a whopping two enemies/missions with Shadowstrike (compare this to any Assault or Sharpshooter and you can see how OP he was . I didn't bother with Shadowstrike on any Shinobi this time.

Yes, i'm still a bit bitter about that nerf that made more collateral damage than anything else
Well, i learned to play other shinobi builds and they are great but i still miss my sneak-attacking assassins...

Tradecraft is exceptionally useful on scout Shinobi. Drastically cuts down their infiltration footprint.

They also make great Officer candidates. They're my favourite TBF Officers. Conceal on them is not meant to enhance combat. It's meant to open up more tactics and serve as insurance against mistakes.

Stealth missions are also getting a small buff/bugfix in 1.5, at least for the single most important mission (Hack Worstation types, which include the critical Lib 1). On live, once you hack the thing, the AI knows exactly where that soldier is and will swarm them. 1.5 stomps out that last little vestigial AI vision cheating. It sounds small, but it's actually a pretty big boost. You can't always get in position for the stealth hack in time to have the EVAC ready before the timer expires. And currently, once you hack that workstation (say because it was the final turn and there's still 2 turns on the evac timer), you WILL get swarmed.

Never used a Concealnobi before, but I'd see it as an ability to restore spotter ability after a fight. Normally, if you want your shinobi to spot, you can't directly use him in a fight. With Conceal, he can help out and go back to spotting afterwards.

Conceal is a very strong ability and it's in a good place at MSGT. Conceal shinobis are fantastic for important missions that rely on you having concealment to cross large open areas quickly and safely. Most of the GP missions or lib4/5 are great examples.

Conceal's other strength relies on the fact that keeping a soldier in concealment is one less soldier shooting guns or throwing smokes. Conceal, for example, gives you the option to leave the shadows for a moment to do an opportune reaper chain, and then still have concealment for later in the mission.

Usually the extra intel a concealed soldier brings to the table is worth much more than that single soldier's fighting power. Conceal lets you have both.

Conceal is insurance against the unknown. Usually the things that stop an experienced commander from sneaking is something they didn't even consider. A faceless turns and reveals you, a missed shot grazes a fuel pump and blows the wall you are hiding behind, civilians exist, etc... When you are doing an important sneak mission, conceal will insure that mission gets done. (On that note there is certainly some discussion to be had about whether conceal is still too strong. I don't know if it is possible to nerf going back into concealment, simply because concealment itself is so strong. Advent and the Aliens do not know how to fight against it.

EsoxGreen wrote:Given that you can't really stealth missions in 1.4 anyway, I think this whole ability is borderline useless. Compare it with Serial, AMF or Chain Lightning or Capacitor Discharge and it is just sad.

I was wondering why I was so bad at attempting one man sneaky missions when it was looking so easy on some let's play. Well probably not just the mod version but also I don't try it well and don't use any counter patch (stopped until revealed).

ProfessorGoogle wrote:Conceal is a very strong ability and it's in a good place at MSGT. Conceal shinobis are fantastic for important missions that rely on you having concealment to cross large open areas quickly and safely. Most of the GP missions or lib4/5 are great examples.

Conceal's other strength relies on the fact that keeping a soldier in concealment is one less soldier shooting guns or throwing smokes. Conceal, for example, gives you the option to leave the shadows for a moment to do an opportune reaper chain, and then still have concealment for later in the mission.

Usually the extra intel a concealed soldier brings to the table is worth much more than that single soldier's fighting power. Conceal lets you have both.

Conceal is insurance against the unknown. Usually the things that stop an experienced commander from sneaking is something they didn't even consider. A faceless turns and reveals you, a missed shot grazes a fuel pump and blows the wall you are hiding behind, civilians exist, etc... When you are doing an important sneak mission, conceal will insure that mission gets done. (On that note there is certainly some discussion to be had about whether conceal is still too strong. I don't know if it is possible to nerf going back into concealment, simply because concealment itself is so strong. Advent and the Aliens do not know how to fight against it.

I second this, even the nerfed Conceal is a potent tactical tool. The Grenadier has also something similar, but Shinobi can combine conceal and be quite better at scouting, because of Ghostwalker/Covert/Sword fitting well with using a weapon increasing speed.