User Interface Design

Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

Coming here firstly to get some help/information, but I preferred start with a complain, that's Internet.

So the UI of the mod is a disaster when the UI of the original game is ok. The game interface design is uncommon but overall they fit the original design of the game. The mod break too many aspects.

I'll pick four examples:
- When you train a rookie to a class, you get a quick short menu of rookies. In original game it's a good design, they all have the same characteristics and the choice of this rookie or that rookie is superficial, so this UI is quick and fine with original game. With the mod it's a total disaster because each rookie is different and it's not just choose a class it's choose a class and a rookie better suited to it. It's the same problem to train a rookie to Psy.
- The world map interface design is rather basic, there's much more efforts put to build a mood than design an intuitive/informative and quick interface. In original game it's fine even if not that great, because the gameplay of this element is made to be light, quick and simple by itself. With the mod the UI becomes awful. One element is well done it's the the Heavens list with one exception the inability to sort which would be more coherent and useful than toogle all resistant to a same activity. The missions list is awful because it's a long list with multiple major elements, so the original design working with a tiny list with not much major information is a disaster with the mod.
- In details panel of a soldier the defense characteristic is missing, in original game it's pointless it's the same for all soldiers. With mod it's a major information missing, and you need go back to some soldier list to see it, that's a big burden.
- In soldier detail panel you have in a quick look a list of special abilities, no weird scrolling destroying a global view, no mixing of skills from different sources. So it's fine in original game, but pointless with mod and it's quite a burden to get an overview of soldier skills, you'll have to check three sub-panels to get it.

But the mod UI design problems aren't limited to reuse the original UI for a context not matching the UI design. Overall it's like the mod was made and tested by people with a photographic memory, at almost all places of the UI it is missing major information.

I'll pick two examples:
- The squad management UI is very bizarre, everywhere in the UI click a soldier in a list of soldiers open his detail, but not here. And even worse, it's not possible at all, you'll need quit to some soldiers list which will take about 4 clicks.
- The mod would require a missions list somehow like the Heavens list, that's the real problem, but to make it worse many panels are missing keys information. A typical example is when a mission infiltration is started you can check the list of soldiers but can check their detail that are very important to decide the fate of the mission or the infiltration goal, like equipments and exact skills.

Overall the mod UI design seems focused only on looking more or less the same than the orignal game but it's just not adapted to mod design. I listed only a few examples but there's a ton of problems.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
nmkaplan
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by nmkaplan »

There are some very good UI mods that fix many of the UI issues you've described here.

RoboJumpers Squad select redesigns the loadout screen so you can easily add weapon mods, switch secondary weapons, and see each soldier's perks. It's phenomenal. You need BOTH "RoboJumpers Squad Select" AND "RoboJumpers Squad Select: LW2".

A mod called "No Drop Down Lists" fixes the issue of selecting Rookies to train in the GTS.

"Show Infiltration Percentage in Squad Select" gives you a ton of great info on infiltration percentage in the loadout screen.

"New Target Icons" gives you new targeting icons for enemies along the bottom of the screen, so you can easily target different enemy types.

The Defense stat missing from the soldier view will be fixed in 1.5.

"Gotcha Again" gives you a TON of amazing information in tactical battles (like whether moving will activate a pod, or pull an overwatch shot, or be in smoke)

I don't think I could play LW2 without these mods in particular. Give them a try if you're frustrated with the UI. Or if you just came on here to complain, that's fine too. It's what the internet is for, after all.
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

Thanks for the UI mods suggestions but I'm a bit cold about adding mods. First time I installed LW2 (last version) it didn't work and I had only 4 tiny mods installed, so now I play with LW2 only. My own experience of LW2 is it is more instable than XCOM2 and I don't want risk aggravate this.

But ok RoboJumper looks very tempting, it seems target one of the four major UI problems of the mod (in my opinion), all other 3 mods aren't as important for me but looks cool. For "Show Infiltration Percentage in Squad Select" it looks to me that LW2 already fixed the problem as I have the infiltration level, enemy level and estimated time for 100% infiltration. Ok it is missing the result of paying for better infiltration but I suppose it's deliberate to add one more random decision element.

I wish there was also:
- A fix to get a missions list table in most contexts,
- that the squad management panel is totally changed,
- and that's there's a real global management of equipments.

That's for me the 4 major UI problems, equipments management globally and for each soldier, missions table with details, squads management and soldier detail panel. This last isn't the worse but I can"t remind most soldiers among the 100+ so it's the panel I use the most, other flaws are more weird details.

I came here initially to ask some questions and perhaps will, but I usually avoid forums where messages are pre filtered, it makes me feel like live in a weird country. Ha ha, I know it's weird that I feel that, and I'm fine with this choice, particularly because I can easily bet that manage JA2 fans and old X-Com fans and new XCOM fans is a rude task. :-D
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Steve-O
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:00 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Steve-O »

PS: If you want all your rookies to have the same stats (for the sake of simplicity) you can turn off "Not Created Equally" in the options menu. It's turned on by default, and that's what randomizes your soldier's stats so that they become better suited to one class over another.

The particular options menu it appears in doesn't show up until after you've started a new campaign (not sure why), so find it after you get into Gatecrasher, not on the main menu before starting.
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

Thanks, in fact I knew I could disable it and honestly I believed I had. There's two options, I setup first to 100% (like for anarchy option) and at second thought I believed disable it by unchecking the second option.

But at end I found it cool and let it like that. Also if I remember well XCOM1 had a similar option and an UI not adapted as well. It's a cool option that honestly I don't manage well, for that I should probably use a UI mods at least for showing attributes during combats.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

nmkaplan wrote:There are some very good UI mods that fix many of the UI issues you've described here.

RoboJumpers Squad select redesigns the loadout screen so you can easily add weapon mods, switch secondary weapons, and see each soldier's perks. It's phenomenal. You need BOTH "RoboJumpers Squad Select" AND "RoboJumpers Squad Select: LW2".

A mod called "No Drop Down Lists" fixes the issue of selecting Rookies to train in the GTS.

"Show Infiltration Percentage in Squad Select" gives you a ton of great info on infiltration percentage in the loadout screen.

"New Target Icons" gives you new targeting icons for enemies along the bottom of the screen, so you can easily target different enemy types.

The Defense stat missing from the soldier view will be fixed in 1.5.

"Gotcha Again" gives you a TON of amazing information in tactical battles (like whether moving will activate a pod, or pull an overwatch shot, or be in smoke)

I don't think I could play LW2 without these mods in particular. Give them a try if you're frustrated with the UI. Or if you just came on here to complain, that's fine too. It's what the internet is for, after all.
Just installed them but "No Drop Down Lists" because even if it's a nuisance it's minor and I don't want multiply the mods. So I"ll see, I already saw the squad selection screen, I was using one similar for skills but seems not work with LW2 and it hadn't all the other stuff. Looks like setup the squad before each mission will be less a burden, thanks for this selection of mods.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

Sorry to make this thread a diary but it's not my fault if I'm alone interested in user interface design. :-D

So I followed Steeve-O suggestion to use mods to temper the UI problems. I have the feeling it aggravated only a little bit the stability, but it could be as well just a feeling. The only new bug type I have seen is hardly related to any of the mods added, it's a commander duplicated a short time in an infiltration and at the base, and in two squads, his own squad and the squad he joined for one infiltration.

I didn't realized the problem, only noticed the duplicates in the squads but when I did the mission I had a commander stripped out of any equipment but the base, lol. The positive is he trained to some skill during the infiltration phase, lol. And at end of mission everything get back to normal. All in all I didn't had a duplicate but just a commander with a temporary ubiquity skill. :-D

For the mods, I replaced "RoboJumpers Squad Select" by "LW2: ShowMeTheSkills Evolved". For sure RJSS has a lot more features but SMTSE has some keys advantages:
- It shows the attributes and that point destroy the RJSS nice design choice to allow do anything directly from Squad Select panel. This just doesn't work because I need constantly get back to game soldier detail panel and doesn't even have the defense level yet, when SMTSE shows it already at Squad Select panel.
- It shows weapons mods level with zero/one/two dots, very smart and very useful, I don't remind RJSS does that.
- It has tooltips to remind names of weapons mods and skills, very very useful to learn much faster what is each icon, or just to refresh memory or to be sure.
- It shows the skills in different colors for each category, soldier/AWC/Psi/Commander, that's hugely helpful.
- It uses the two rows presentations, which is for me more clear and avoid the problem RJSS sometimes has, to show only 5 soldiers in front row instead of 6 (not sure why it happens nor when).

If both mods would merge that would be perfect because RJSS has a lot of features that would just improve SMTSE.

Otherwise just for mention, I would add to Steeve-O suggestion list some other classics: Evac All and Overwatch All/Others. Alas I didn't found anything changing the squad management panel to make it the main panel to manage soldiers. I also didn't found anything adding filters or something to make soldiers lists panel more handy in LW2 context and an army of soldiers.

And last note, looks like adding the first batch of mods fixed a problem, but probably not and just got a sneaky update fixing some sorts in soldiers list, a bug that probably happened when the list was too big.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
nmkaplan
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by nmkaplan »

Quick End Turn is better than Overwatch All/Others.
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

nmkaplan wrote:Quick End Turn is better than Overwatch All/Others.
Thanks didn't noticed it, I like Overwatch All but not Overwatch Others, but I think I could edit an ini file to change it. I'll try Quick End Turn.

I found some more I found quite useful:
  • "Perfect Information for LW2" is a recent LW2 fix for Perfect Information, it's a user that made a temporary mod until Perfect Information author fixes his mod for LW2. I try it, no idea if it provides right numbers, for now it looks bizarre but I need get used to it and learn more the details. Frankly I wonder why it shouldn't be made simple and show chance to standard hit only, chance to graze only, chance to critical only, chance to do any hit, and damages range for each.
  • "LW2: View Infiltration Squad" partially fixes one of the problem I complained about. When you check a mission the show squad select is totally pointless because it shows the squad which could has soldiers infiltrated on multiple missions, and it doesn't allow check soldiers details. This mod fixes both and match the gameplay logic much better than the weird original view mission squad, it shows the real squad doing the infiltration, and you can check soldiers details. My opinion on that is still that it's squad management that should allow manage the missions or that there should be a true missions management panel.
  • "Black Market Usage" targets one burden of the game, at Black Market for any item you can see the list of research/prototyping/crafting involved.
  • "LW2: Better Squad Icon Selector" which is cool even if it's a detail as you don't pick an icon for a squad very often.
As a final comment, I suspect that "Lifetime Stats" isn't really compatible with LW2. It's because I have very high luck and bad luck percentages that I don't remember ever have before. But ok activate it at last parts of a campaign isn't ideal. And there's two mods that seem not work for me, I didn't bother check yet why, it's "Show Infiltration Percentage in Squad Select" and "30 Ability icons".
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: User Interface Design

Post by JulianSkies »

Zork wrote:For the mods, I replaced "RoboJumpers Squad Select" by "LW2: ShowMeTheSkills Evolved". For sure RJSS has a lot more features but SMTSE has some keys advantages:
- It shows the attributes and that point destroy the RJSS nice design choice to allow do anything directly from Squad Select panel. This just doesn't work because I need constantly get back to game soldier detail panel and doesn't even have the defense level yet, when SMTSE shows it already at Squad Select panel.
- It has tooltips to remind names of weapons mods and skills, very very useful to learn much faster what is each icon, or just to refresh memory or to be sure.
- It shows the skills in different colors for each category, soldier/AWC/Psi/Commander, that's hugely helpful.
Actually, if you check the mod options for robojumper's squad select you can find the option to show the attributes! Most mods rely on the "Mod Options Menu" mod to change the options menu to have a submenu just for mods, though, so you may need that.
I admit I memorized the icons of the weapon mods so I don't really need the tooltips.
I am also 100% certain it shows base/psi/extra abilities in white/purple/yellow too but I'm on the phone right now.

Edit: Also, Show 30 Ability Icons isn't compatible with LW2, LW2 has it's own implementation of it (the pages in the ability bar) and the two components compete and only one appears. If you change in the LW2 options to use vanilla HUD then the 30 icons mod works.
nmkaplan
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by nmkaplan »

The patch notes for RoboJumpers says "added a stats panel! Enable in the MCM."

When you search for the mod options manager, you find both "Mod Options Menu" by Divine Lubrication and "Mod Config Menu" by guby.

It looks like the 2nd one is the one you want to activate the stats panel in RoboJumper's. I am just finding out about this update here, so thanks! I find that RoboJumpers mod is superior to SMTS:R in every way *except* the existance of a stats panel, so I'm excited that he added it.
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

JulianSkies wrote:
Zork wrote:For the mods, I replaced "RoboJumpers Squad Select" by "LW2: ShowMeTheSkills Evolved". For sure RJSS has a lot more features but SMTSE has some keys advantages:
- It shows the attributes and that point destroy the RJSS nice design choice to allow do anything directly from Squad Select panel. This just doesn't work because I need constantly get back to game soldier detail panel and doesn't even have the defense level yet, when SMTSE shows it already at Squad Select panel.
- It has tooltips to remind names of weapons mods and skills, very very useful to learn much faster what is each icon, or just to refresh memory or to be sure.
- It shows the skills in different colors for each category, soldier/AWC/Psi/Commander, that's hugely helpful.
Actually, if you check the mod options for robojumper's squad select you can find the option to show the attributes! Most mods rely on the "Mod Options Menu" mod to change the options menu to have a submenu just for mods, though, so you may need that.
I admit I memorized the icons of the weapon mods so I don't really need the tooltips.
I am also 100% certain it shows base/psi/extra abilities in white/purple/yellow too but I'm on the phone right now.

Edit: Also, Show 30 Ability Icons isn't compatible with LW2, LW2 has it's own implementation of it (the pages in the ability bar) and the two components compete and only one appears. If you change in the LW2 options to use vanilla HUD then the 30 icons mod works.
Thank you, but I admit I really don't like "RoboJumpers Squad Select" circle view, ha ha. But I didn't notice the options so thanks I'll check it again.

For ""30 Ability Icons" I have seen what you explain in mod description and did change the option to standard HUD but only get the same LW2 HUD. It looks like it's with LW2 that I have the bug, but now I have many mods, so who knows.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

nmkaplan wrote:The patch notes for RoboJumpers says "added a stats panel! Enable in the MCM."

When you search for the mod options manager, you find both "Mod Options Menu" by Divine Lubrication and "Mod Config Menu" by guby.

It looks like the 2nd one is the one you want to activate the stats panel in RoboJumper's. I am just finding out about this update here, so thanks! I find that RoboJumpers mod is superior to SMTS:R in every way *except* the existance of a stats panel, so I'm excited that he added it.
Gee it requires the MCM? I play on Mac so I doubt the MCM is an option for me. Moreover the Mac launcher has a ton more options that can be handy, this Mac port publisher do it for all games and it's very handy like to find where are preferences or saves or custom portraits for this game.

I suppose I can edit an ini file myself to change it, I'll investigate, thanks for the information.

EDIT: Ok by adding "Mod Config Menu" I can enable in game the option to add the statistics in squad panel, now the main trouble is not have the AWC skills in a different color but its only for commanders, and it doesn't show the weapons mods level which is not cool but I suppose there's no place for them. And it hasn't the tooltips and that's not cool at all. But it has so many more that I'll try it a bit more now I have the statistics.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
robojumper
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:53 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by robojumper »

Zork wrote:and it doesn't show the weapons mods level which is not cool but I suppose there's no place for them. And it hasn't the tooltips and that's not cool at all.
If you want to see features, it's best to just write a comment in the mod page. I just updated the mod with weapon upgrade icon tooltips, and gave officer abilities a different color. I have no idea how to visualize the upgrade tier within the icons though.
orion_winterfire
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by orion_winterfire »

robojumper wrote:If you want to see features, it's best to just write a comment in the mod page. I just updated the mod with weapon upgrade icon tooltips, and gave officer abilities a different color. I have no idea how to visualize the upgrade tier within the icons though.
A true hero of the war!
DerAva
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:46 am

Re: User Interface Design

Post by DerAva »

orion_winterfire wrote:
robojumper wrote:If you want to see features, it's best to just write a comment in the mod page. I just updated the mod with weapon upgrade icon tooltips, and gave officer abilities a different color. I have no idea how to visualize the upgrade tier within the icons though.
A true hero of the war!
Maybe a colored border for the different upgrade icons. Green, Blue, Purple for basic, advanced, superior (although not sure if blue and purple would be different enough)
orion_winterfire
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by orion_winterfire »

DerAva wrote:Maybe a colored border for the different upgrade icons. Green, Blue, Purple for basic, advanced, superior (although not sure if blue and purple would be different enough)
Green, yellow, red?
JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: User Interface Design

Post by JulianSkies »

orion_winterfire wrote:
DerAva wrote:Maybe a colored border for the different upgrade icons. Green, Blue, Purple for basic, advanced, superior (although not sure if blue and purple would be different enough)
Green, yellow, red?
Green->Blue->Purple as an upgrade path is a time-honored MMO tradition and uses some form of pre-existing knowledge of the gamer class to more easily transmit it's information.
Also in general I do believe mixing green and yellow is a general not-as-good idea just in the case you run into a colorblind user since it's likely they can't discern.
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

robojumper wrote:
Zork wrote:and it doesn't show the weapons mods level which is not cool but I suppose there's no place for them. And it hasn't the tooltips and that's not cool at all.
If you want to see features, it's best to just write a comment in the mod page. I just updated the mod with weapon upgrade icon tooltips, and gave officer abilities a different color. I have no idea how to visualize the upgrade tier within the icons though.
Cool ok going to post at Steam mod page (I suppose it's what you mean), about the dots and to allow them not put mods in a "L" but as a bar.

For the circle view, I bet it's no hope for any change but I'll explain the problems and perhaps it can open a solution, in short, a circle has no beginning and no end, it generates two problems:
- "Oh I have 2 specialists in my squad that's cool... oops no it's the same specialist at left now at right.
- "Ha here the specialist so I checked my squad fully.. oops no it's a second specialist.

:-)
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Zork
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Zork »

JulianSkies wrote:
orion_winterfire wrote:
DerAva wrote:Maybe a colored border for the different upgrade icons. Green, Blue, Purple for basic, advanced, superior (although not sure if blue and purple would be different enough)
Green, yellow, red?
Green->Blue->Purple as an upgrade path is a time-honored MMO tradition and uses some form of pre-existing knowledge of the gamer class to more easily transmit it's information.
Also in general I do believe mixing green and yellow is a general not-as-good idea just in the case you run into a colorblind user since it's likely they can't discern.
It's no match with the dots and in fact I whish the dots was on the big images of the mods, read their name or remind the infinite number of graphics is just a lot less clear and a lot slower.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)
Fictitious1267
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:11 am

Re: User Interface Design

Post by Fictitious1267 »

I'll just add that AWC management is atrocious. I shouldn't have to scroll through multiple windows just because my soldier learned a perk, and I want to assign another soldier to keep the train rolling (because when would you ever not?).

Currently:
Map View
The AWC training finished window. Close window.
Avenger Menu
Squad Menu to see who is available to train.
AWC
AWC soldier name
AWC perk selection
Avenger Menu
Map View

Repeat this every 2-4 turns.

This needs to be replaced with "Training finished" directly into "select next soldier" with a list of their stats, then "select the perk", with no need to ever leave the map view.
nmkaplan
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by nmkaplan »

You can assign a soldier to train in the AWC directly from the "AWC perks" window in the soldier view. There's a button in the top right corner of the window that shows the perks. It says "train perk". No need to click on the AWC building in the avenger at all.
RookieAutopsy
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 9:35 am

Re: User Interface Design

Post by RookieAutopsy »

Unless you want to train a different soldier, then its a bit of a clickathon.
DerAva
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:46 am

Re: User Interface Design

Post by DerAva »

You can simply tab/lshift through all your soldiers while you have they AWC skill tree open. There's no need to ever click on the AWC building and it's super fast.
Yes, there are things that can be improved in the UI, but people should use the tools that are available already.
orion_winterfire
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: User Interface Design

Post by orion_winterfire »

DerAva wrote:You can simply tab/lshift through all your soldiers while you have they AWC skill tree open. There's no need to ever click on the AWC building and it's super fast.
Yes, there are things that can be improved in the UI, but people should use the tools that are available already.
Holy hell. That fact has somehow managed to elude me for an embarrassingly long time. Thanks for the tip.
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