What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
Now that in 1.4 you can only bring 8 people to supply raids and troop columns, I'd like to know how people deal with the increased difficulty. I imagine that you would not want to bring a Shinobi due to useless of stealth in under-infiltrated missions and risk of pulling multiple pods. For this reason the best composition would seem to be a shooting-based comp with smoke grenades and a lot of overwatch action. Thoughts?
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WarChicken
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:29 am
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
I'd say the exact opposite.
Bring 2 Shinobis. Leave them concealed for as long as you can. They are the eyes of your snipers.
Speaking of which - bring snipers. At least 2, but I prefer 3 or even 4 and park them on an elevated position as soon as possible. Snake- or Spiderarmor helps a lot here.
For the rest of the squad - A specialist with full override to be able to steal a good mech or sectopod and either a PSI-Operative with Mind Control or a Ranger - if you have 3 Snipers instead of 4, bring both. Those guys are not only there for aquiring additional troups, but also to defend your Snipers in case enemies get too close - meaning you keep those near your snipers, while the shinobis look for targets. As a last resort, give your snipers a smoke grenade each.
Using this strategy you can easily get rid of a lot of troups from a safe distance.
A little luck IS involved, because if you activate 3 Pods before being able to get to an elevated spot... Lets say, you'll have a tough time defending then, but if it works, it's nothing more than target practice most of the time.
Bring 2 Shinobis. Leave them concealed for as long as you can. They are the eyes of your snipers.
Speaking of which - bring snipers. At least 2, but I prefer 3 or even 4 and park them on an elevated position as soon as possible. Snake- or Spiderarmor helps a lot here.
For the rest of the squad - A specialist with full override to be able to steal a good mech or sectopod and either a PSI-Operative with Mind Control or a Ranger - if you have 3 Snipers instead of 4, bring both. Those guys are not only there for aquiring additional troups, but also to defend your Snipers in case enemies get too close - meaning you keep those near your snipers, while the shinobis look for targets. As a last resort, give your snipers a smoke grenade each.
Using this strategy you can easily get rid of a lot of troups from a safe distance.
A little luck IS involved, because if you activate 3 Pods before being able to get to an elevated spot... Lets say, you'll have a tough time defending then, but if it works, it's nothing more than target practice most of the time.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
3 snipers, 2 specs, 1 shinobi and about 6 smoke grenades.
See my AAR thread. The shinobi is essential for pulling pods at squadsight (read: removing the biggest problem before it gets into cover). 0% infil might be unreasonable, but ~20% is just 2 days and much more manageable. If the shinobi loses stealth, he becomes the best tank as he can afford to do nothing but hunker while there's swaths of enemies in sight.
See my AAR thread. The shinobi is essential for pulling pods at squadsight (read: removing the biggest problem before it gets into cover). 0% infil might be unreasonable, but ~20% is just 2 days and much more manageable. If the shinobi loses stealth, he becomes the best tank as he can afford to do nothing but hunker while there's swaths of enemies in sight.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
0% Infiltration is never something I do except when I want try for the fun. I did very low infiltration only twice, and getting very high or even highest enemy activity. So it's not much per experience that I'm answering, ha ha. Moreover for now I always "lost" those missions and at best I reload "only" 3 times to finish them.
In my point of view the highest danger is coming from number of enemies and map size. Last time I played the start was 3 pods at first turn including a 2 sectopods pod, 2 pods following the turn after. Or 2 pods at first turn (soldiers not concealed just moving to very close covers, even in back) including the 2 sectopods, and 3 pods at next turn. The good aspect of too many enemies is it generates many opportunities for AOE attacks but you need have the resources for that. Now frankly it was looking rather extreme, but I even had one of those mission where steam landing triggered a pod with 2 sectopods, thankfully in this case I had a good infiltration.
But it wasn't so much cramped at the start with a previous attempt, so I don't know. For now I'm still uncertain about the best theoretical setup. But definitely about some aspects and focusing on a very possible quick rude start:
- 6 sting grenades is the minimum, I would target more 8, and 4 Plasma Grenades through 2 last level Grenadiers.
- 3 Exo armor or WAR armor if possible, and the most possible with weapon upgraded to Shredstorm Cannon, those provided to any soldier not sniper/shinobi/commando with shotgun. A Technical or a Spark could replace one.
- 1 sharpshooter with Serial.
- 1 Shinobi with Reaper and serum.
- 1 Psi with Void Rift, if possible with Null Lance and /or Domination.
- 1 great Hacker and hacking setup including at least one soldier with red ammo.
From this base I'm not sure what would be the best setup. Just some points in my opinion:
- For me 3 sharpshooters doesn't look like a great setup, I don't see how such squad wouldn't be dead with a cramped start with many pods as I had the last time I tried. But I'm not an expert.
- OW looks good but I wouldn't expect kill most stuff in OW. The point is, in such mission in case you have a pause instead of moving forward you should better do few OW wait turns. So OW setup looks good, but full standard team OW is already a good bonus. So OW setup would be more a tactical choice than a necessity.
- 2 Specialists with at least one medic or two half medic, and at least one great Hacker.
So an example of team I would try target:
- 1 Shinobi with Reaper, Conceal. Warden Armor, Overdrive Serum. I hadn't any at my last mission like that, a Technical with Phantom was supposed to do the job but didn't much because at rude start I couldn't resist not use him. But obviously such Shinobi should help but I would be very cautious about awaking pods with the Shinobi attacks.
- 1 Sharpshooter with Serial, Death from Above, Damn Good Ground, Precision Shot, Deadeye. Wraith suit, AP ammo, Stock.
- 1 Psi with Void Rift, Null Lance, Domination. WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- 1 Grenadiers with Rapid Deployment, Protector, Bluescreen Bombs, Sting Grenades, Full Kit. 6 sting grenades, WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- 1 Grenadier with Sapper, Heat Warheads, Bluescreen Bombs, Sting Grenades, Full Kit. 4 Plasma Grenades, 2 sting grenades, WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- 1 Specialist with great hacking and more Medic oriented. Revival Protocol, Field Surgeon, Medical Protocol, Full Override. Warden Armor, Nanomedikits, Skulljack.
- 1 OW Ranger with red ammo. WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- Not sure for the 8th soldier.
- At least 2 soldiers with shredding shots either from skill either from ammo.
That's an ideal probably impossible to achieve, with at least 4 soldiers at max level, and a Psi very high level not sure it's even possible to have all those skills with only one Psi. Without to mention the highest level equipments, you'll probably never get that many.
It's also a setup from the point of view of high level enemies with a lot of armor and the guaranty of many mech stuff.
In my point of view the highest danger is coming from number of enemies and map size. Last time I played the start was 3 pods at first turn including a 2 sectopods pod, 2 pods following the turn after. Or 2 pods at first turn (soldiers not concealed just moving to very close covers, even in back) including the 2 sectopods, and 3 pods at next turn. The good aspect of too many enemies is it generates many opportunities for AOE attacks but you need have the resources for that. Now frankly it was looking rather extreme, but I even had one of those mission where steam landing triggered a pod with 2 sectopods, thankfully in this case I had a good infiltration.
But it wasn't so much cramped at the start with a previous attempt, so I don't know. For now I'm still uncertain about the best theoretical setup. But definitely about some aspects and focusing on a very possible quick rude start:
- 6 sting grenades is the minimum, I would target more 8, and 4 Plasma Grenades through 2 last level Grenadiers.
- 3 Exo armor or WAR armor if possible, and the most possible with weapon upgraded to Shredstorm Cannon, those provided to any soldier not sniper/shinobi/commando with shotgun. A Technical or a Spark could replace one.
- 1 sharpshooter with Serial.
- 1 Shinobi with Reaper and serum.
- 1 Psi with Void Rift, if possible with Null Lance and /or Domination.
- 1 great Hacker and hacking setup including at least one soldier with red ammo.
From this base I'm not sure what would be the best setup. Just some points in my opinion:
- For me 3 sharpshooters doesn't look like a great setup, I don't see how such squad wouldn't be dead with a cramped start with many pods as I had the last time I tried. But I'm not an expert.
- OW looks good but I wouldn't expect kill most stuff in OW. The point is, in such mission in case you have a pause instead of moving forward you should better do few OW wait turns. So OW setup looks good, but full standard team OW is already a good bonus. So OW setup would be more a tactical choice than a necessity.
- 2 Specialists with at least one medic or two half medic, and at least one great Hacker.
So an example of team I would try target:
- 1 Shinobi with Reaper, Conceal. Warden Armor, Overdrive Serum. I hadn't any at my last mission like that, a Technical with Phantom was supposed to do the job but didn't much because at rude start I couldn't resist not use him. But obviously such Shinobi should help but I would be very cautious about awaking pods with the Shinobi attacks.
- 1 Sharpshooter with Serial, Death from Above, Damn Good Ground, Precision Shot, Deadeye. Wraith suit, AP ammo, Stock.
- 1 Psi with Void Rift, Null Lance, Domination. WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- 1 Grenadiers with Rapid Deployment, Protector, Bluescreen Bombs, Sting Grenades, Full Kit. 6 sting grenades, WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- 1 Grenadier with Sapper, Heat Warheads, Bluescreen Bombs, Sting Grenades, Full Kit. 4 Plasma Grenades, 2 sting grenades, WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- 1 Specialist with great hacking and more Medic oriented. Revival Protocol, Field Surgeon, Medical Protocol, Full Override. Warden Armor, Nanomedikits, Skulljack.
- 1 OW Ranger with red ammo. WAR suit, Shredstorm Cannon.
- Not sure for the 8th soldier.
- At least 2 soldiers with shredding shots either from skill either from ammo.
That's an ideal probably impossible to achieve, with at least 4 soldiers at max level, and a Psi very high level not sure it's even possible to have all those skills with only one Psi. Without to mention the highest level equipments, you'll probably never get that many.
It's also a setup from the point of view of high level enemies with a lot of armor and the guaranty of many mech stuff.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
Moving snipers to elevated positions is extremely risky for the 8-man GOp. You don't need high ground, just good lines of sight. I consider it a luxury if my snipers get to move more than one blue-move from their starting location. Holding the front line when 3 pods get activated is something to be prepared for. If your snipers are doing their job and removing anything harmful that ignores aim, smoke + infinite aid protocol (hence 2 specs) and hold the line perpetually. The AI doesn't change to mob tactics when it has overwhelming numbers so the number of enemies trying to OW creep towards you is limited by how much cover is between the tank and his edge of vision.WarChicken wrote:park them on an elevated position as soon as possible.
A little luck IS involved, because if you activate 3 Pods before being able to get to an elevated spot... Lets say, you'll have a tough time defending then, but if it works, it's nothing more than target practice most of the time.
AoE unnecessary and if it's loud, dangerous. Certainly you don't want to waste item slots bringing flashbangs (even with Sting) when you could bring smoke grenades instead. Smoke can completely stop enemies shooting for 3 turns. Flashbangs are for smaller squads and the earlygame. Predator and laser is what I consider the minimum to begin 8-man GOp squadding.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
Smoke with a close range coming in it is such a boredom that it pushed me just forget use any single one. But it seems I should try them again and more, perticularly that there's smoke bombs.
I also never quoted that AoE was dragging pods around faster than shots, looks like I should put care to it.
but Im' still very skeptical about using 3 snipers, looks to me like a dangerous bet.
I also never quoted that AoE was dragging pods around faster than shots, looks like I should put care to it.
but Im' still very skeptical about using 3 snipers, looks to me like a dangerous bet.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
I typically run 2 gunners, 2 sharpshooters, shinobi, ranger/assault, ow spec, and a technical for open field missions like supply raids. I will sub in a grenadier on higher infiltration levels for faster killing, but grenadiers are my least used class in 1.4.
For Urban environments like troop columns or monuments I swap out gunners/sharpshooters for assaults, rangers, and technicals.
My infiltration levels really depend on obtaining a decent ratio of soldiers and equipment to aliens, so I rarely bother with 0% anymore in 1.4 only doing them to try to obtain rare corpses.
For Urban environments like troop columns or monuments I swap out gunners/sharpshooters for assaults, rangers, and technicals.
My infiltration levels really depend on obtaining a decent ratio of soldiers and equipment to aliens, so I rarely bother with 0% anymore in 1.4 only doing them to try to obtain rare corpses.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
This thread pushed me focus more on Gunners, I set respec time to 0 to be able experiment with Gunners builds.
I realized that Rapid Fire + Traverse was putting gunner closer to Ranger, you can shoot+double shoot, shoot+shoot, move+double shoot, move + shoot, shoot and reload. In fact the only thing gunners can add is shoot and move, not pointless but not that common either.
For sure you can't do an OW Gunner as you can with Ranger, but Gunner has other positive like AOE, or Area Suppression. But firstly you need give up on Combat Fitness, secondly no matter what, for now I end with static gunners mainly because of heavier reloading. Moreover you don't have the optional tools to develop the two shots like Locked On and Executioner. But I only started my experiments so it's just a first feeling.
I realized that Rapid Fire + Traverse was putting gunner closer to Ranger, you can shoot+double shoot, shoot+shoot, move+double shoot, move + shoot, shoot and reload. In fact the only thing gunners can add is shoot and move, not pointless but not that common either.
For sure you can't do an OW Gunner as you can with Ranger, but Gunner has other positive like AOE, or Area Suppression. But firstly you need give up on Combat Fitness, secondly no matter what, for now I end with static gunners mainly because of heavier reloading. Moreover you don't have the optional tools to develop the two shots like Locked On and Executioner. But I only started my experiments so it's just a first feeling.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
On Gunners: If a Gunner gets Sentinel or Rapid Reaction in the AWC, then you can make them very good OWers. Just pick CUP, which also benefits suppression. You can make quite an impressive hybrid with one of these from the AWC, CUP and the rest shooty skills. You end up with a soldier that's very good at OW, Suppression AND shooting, all for high damage.
Gunner is THE example for me on how a single AWC perk can make a class so much stronger.
Gunner is THE example for me on how a single AWC perk can make a class so much stronger.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
On supply raids/columns: I consider the standard MO on untimed missions to
- set up a sniper nest (2 at least, or you won't have a significant impact on approaching pods),
- scout ahead with a Phantom soldier (shinobi or AWC assault/technical) and
- set up a line of OWers (rangers, specialists, gunners with Sentinel/Rapid Reaction) and CCers (grenadiers, gunners).
Spotter spots enemies, snipers pull enemies towards a (prepared, smoked) OW line on _alien_ turn, on your turn CC and mop up.
That means my usual composition is: 2 sniper, specialist, shinobi, OW gunner, grenadier, ranger, something (2nd ranger, SPARK, srun adsault or something).
If the enemy is so close that they spot you with their sniper-induced activation, don't overwatch with everyone, instead CC after activation - you really don't want them getting a full turn uncontrolled. Disregarding this is my leading cause of soldier deaths (enemy activates, doesn't die to my OW fire, gets its full turn uncontrolled and kills someone).
On underinfiltrated missions, without concealment, it is much harder to set up a defensible position. That's why I would rather do such a mission with 6 soldiers at 100% than underinfiltrated with 8. I consider purposely underinfiltrating for corpses cheesy.
Nonetheless, I use the same strategy. A sniper nest can also mean snipers are just a little further behind. And even if you have to clear half the map before setting up properly, being able to pull and trap the rainbow pod is usually worth it IMO. And it's not like snipers on the ground aren't contributing.
- set up a sniper nest (2 at least, or you won't have a significant impact on approaching pods),
- scout ahead with a Phantom soldier (shinobi or AWC assault/technical) and
- set up a line of OWers (rangers, specialists, gunners with Sentinel/Rapid Reaction) and CCers (grenadiers, gunners).
Spotter spots enemies, snipers pull enemies towards a (prepared, smoked) OW line on _alien_ turn, on your turn CC and mop up.
That means my usual composition is: 2 sniper, specialist, shinobi, OW gunner, grenadier, ranger, something (2nd ranger, SPARK, srun adsault or something).
If the enemy is so close that they spot you with their sniper-induced activation, don't overwatch with everyone, instead CC after activation - you really don't want them getting a full turn uncontrolled. Disregarding this is my leading cause of soldier deaths (enemy activates, doesn't die to my OW fire, gets its full turn uncontrolled and kills someone).
On underinfiltrated missions, without concealment, it is much harder to set up a defensible position. That's why I would rather do such a mission with 6 soldiers at 100% than underinfiltrated with 8. I consider purposely underinfiltrating for corpses cheesy.
Nonetheless, I use the same strategy. A sniper nest can also mean snipers are just a little further behind. And even if you have to clear half the map before setting up properly, being able to pull and trap the rainbow pod is usually worth it IMO. And it's not like snipers on the ground aren't contributing.
Re: What are your team comps for under-infiltrated or 0% supply raids/columns?
Sure with some key AWC skills it can change all. I have a ranger with Sure Hand, Shredder and Hail of Bullets lol. Ok it doesn't really change his roles, more make it one of the best shooter ranger I have.Icarus wrote:On Gunners: If a Gunner gets Sentinel or Rapid Reaction in the AWC, then you can make them very good OWers. Just pick CUP, which also benefits suppression. You can make quite an impressive hybrid with one of these from the AWC, CUP and the rest shooty skills. You end up with a soldier that's very good at OW, Suppression AND shooting, all for high damage.
Gunner is THE example for me on how a single AWC perk can make a class so much stronger.
EDIT: About changing a soldier with one AWC skill, in a let's play a player with a soldier (or two) with Faceoff pistol skill often changed the pace of the combat with some pods by using this skill.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you.