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Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:29 am
by Psieye
I currently have a shinobi with Flush (and Aim too). It's amazing for minimally poking a Mec with redscreen rounds to prepare it for Full Override. I'd never take it on a gunner as it competes with other Cpl perks but it's great as an AWC "let me finish a 1 HP guy" bonus perk.

What AWC fun have other people had? I'm not sure how useful Iron Curtain is on my technical (especially when he just finished Traverse Fire) - maybe if I took salvo on this guy but I didn't.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 pm
by joebill
Walk fire for the exact same reason as flush. My psionics all carry redscreen rounds so they can help with the other kind of mind control. I've been lucky enough to roll walk fire on one.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:52 pm
by aedn
There are lots of AWC perks that are good to pick.

Flush, walk fire, and grazing fire are all good to finish low health enemies.

With the exception of covering fire, all the OW perks are solid, with guardian and EV being exceptional due to being in the tier 1 defensive slot.

Salvo is very good on anyone but sharpshooters, as it works with both utility and offensive grenades. If you get rapid deployment and full kit with it, it's God tier in terms of utility, far sooner then you can get a MSGT grenadier.

Shadow strike is exceptional on assaults, and only time I take iron curtain on gunners.

The only thing I largely avoid are the pistol perks, as I find they are not worth the training investment, excluding technicals and even then I want quick study.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:40 pm
by Exquisitor
Pistol skills work very well on sharpshooters. Their aim is high enough that they can actually hit and cause considerable damage on their targets. DfA sharpshooters work well, particularly if you score a kill, you can then use the extra shot from several of the pistol skills to finish off a wounded advent. I haven't found pistol skills to be of much use on other classes because of low aim (grenadiers, techs) or better skills (rapid fire, etc.). Having said that, Face off is always a fun skill to use.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:31 pm
by JulianSkies
Exquisitor wrote:Pistol skills work very well on sharpshooters. Their aim is high enough that they can actually hit and cause considerable damage on their targets. DfA sharpshooters work well, particularly if you score a kill, you can then use the extra shot from several of the pistol skills to finish off a wounded advent. I haven't found pistol skills to be of much use on other classes because of low aim (grenadiers, techs) or better skills (rapid fire, etc.). Having said that, Face off is always a fun skill to use.
They're fun on both Technicals and Assaults since they don't end your turn to use, Assaults in particular having Run and Gun are very good pistol wielders.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:00 pm
by Steelflame
Exquisitor wrote:Pistol skills work very well on sharpshooters. Their aim is high enough that they can actually hit and cause considerable damage on their targets. DfA sharpshooters work well, particularly if you score a kill, you can then use the extra shot from several of the pistol skills to finish off a wounded advent. I haven't found pistol skills to be of much use on other classes because of low aim (grenadiers, techs) or better skills (rapid fire, etc.). Having said that, Face off is always a fun skill to use.
Pistols are very powerful on Holotargeting Sharpshooters. Because the holotargeter Vital Targeting perk adds a flat 1-3 damage per hit, you can either prep a burst with rapid Targeting before droping Lightning hands, a standard shot, and Fanfare on a single target for 5 hits at +3 damage for a total of +15 damage on that target, that also just happened to have boosted aim and crit as well.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:22 am
by Zork
There's in fact many perks that are amazing no matter the class, for example: Quick Study, Combat Fitness, Sprinter, Shredding, Light 'Em Up, Ever Vigilant, Low Profile, Run and Gun, Rapid Fire, Serial, Traverse Fire, Sentinel, Rapid Reaction, Guardian, Hail of Bullets, Lethal, Iron Curtain, Smoke, Evasive, Hit and Run, Suppression, Center Mass, Precision Shot, Deadeye, Damn Good Ground, Aggression, Bring 'Em On, Hunter's Instincts, Flash, Covert, certainly more.

But I suppose OP topic is more about a very special perk that is doing marvel with a special build.
- Phantom: From a squad perspective, to build a long range squad without Shinobi, typically no Shinobi, no Assault, no Fire Technical, instead cover destruction, long range, AOE.
- Shadowstrike, rather good option for many Sharpshooter builds, and even if it would be for very rare cases, some Commando build particularly with also the Ghostwalker perk.

Some I consider pointless:
- All those related to damage grenades, no way any soldier can replace a Grenadier, could be a second priority anyway during the very beginning of the campaign. The only exception would be a soldier cumulating Full kit and some grenade perks.
- All those related to pistol, I would consider take any pistol skill only with all perks revealed and knowing where I go and if lost a carry slot will worth it. But ok it could be laziness, I need consider it closely.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:22 am
by Psieye
To clarify, the original intent for this thread was "perks that you never pick on their 'main' class but you'd love to pick from AWC for another class". Some are straight no-brainer good for everyone including the class that has it.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:33 am
by Zork
Do you mean perks not available in AWC yet? Ok that's not the example you give. For existing perks, I see only one case and not even amazing, just a good option better than for the original class, Shadowstrike for Sharpshooter.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:21 am
by Icarus
Then: covering fire on a gunner. It ensures suppressed targets stay debuffed even if they run the suppression.

Does anyone know it this means the gunner will also do a shot at anyone shooting while suppressed?

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:56 pm
by Bankstercide
As a general rule, classes without enough "shooty" perks benefit from Grazing Fire + shot procs like Shredder, Holotargeting, Rupture and Flush.

Walk Fire is better for Gunners than Rangers due to higher damage/shot and ammo capacity.

Deep Cover is so good for MG Gunners that I put it in the first Perk tier.

Same goes for Fleche for Gunners, if you want to make the most of knifing enemies through walls.

I also swapped out Sharpshooter AMF for Stealth/Conceal and put AMF in Marksman instead.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:06 am
by SamXjones
killzone in a DFA sharpshooter, period, i am not even talking about it combine with other AWC perks such as Cool Under Pressure etc. All the extream range multiple reaction shots are just too amazing to me.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:20 am
by Iridar51
I once had a Gunner with Guardian (50% chance for bonus overwatch shot). She would literally gun down entire pods by herself. It was glorious.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:19 pm
by Frankee
Run & Gun and shredder on my 18 base mobility pump action Ranger was sick. With wraith armor and combat fitness he just runs across the universe and either both barrels or rapid fires in the face for 40 crit then walks away with implacable. The most fun / op combination I've ever played, hands down.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:26 pm
by Jarno Mikkola
Frankee wrote:Run & Gun and shredder on my 18 base mobility pump action Ranger was sick. With wraith armor and combat fitness he just runs across the universe and either both barrels or rapid fires in the face for 40 crit then walks away with implacable. The most fun / op combination I've ever played, hands down.
I don't know, I would rather have an Assault trooper, with a LightEmUp. Why... cause he can shoot, move his implacable and run&gun and shoot again. Why's that important, cause the AI tile counts to be out of the critical blue move range. Of course if you want, you can always have Teleport instead of Run&Gun.

And if we talk about the AWC abilities... Ever Vigilant, Resilience, Untouchable/Implacable, Combat Fitness, Stealth are the best... defensive, while offensive: Sprinter, Shredder, CenterMass, Bullet Shred, Hail of Bullets... yes, that's 5 for both... when you remove those from the regular classes and remove the others from the AWC table allowing 5 in them... you can make really good soldiers.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:20 am
by hamds28
Hunter's Instinct, on an Assault. I don't build shooty shinobis. Implacable on Assaults would be utterly broken, but it's fairly good on Rangers and most people. Interference, on shinobi if it doesn't break stealth.

Most perks are pretty good at what they do already, there's not that many level-ups where I go "meh". I guess Flush would be decent on a grenadier or a non OW specialist. Chain Shot on Assaults would be like the Rapid Fire of XCOM1.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:10 am
by Dong101
A graze fire, rupture, killzone DFA sniper. She do not miss and anything close enough is dead.

I choosed AMF for her to maximise her damage potential. Start getting all sniper rotate thru AWS in hope of getting 1 more. Sadly no other sniper turn out to have killzone so far.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:58 pm
by Psieye
Hmm not a lot of love for Phantom. I want to try a stealth Trench Gun or Iron Curtain (let alone the MSGT AoE gun skills). I suppose Ghost Grenade lets you do it too.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:45 pm
by Noober
Shadow Strike on DFA-Phantom-AMF sharpshooter + tactical suppressor mode.
I had one in my recent campaign - it's just insane.
OHKO everything but a MK2-3 Ruler. And if you give him hunter DLC pistol - this moster can do it several times/mission.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:09 pm
by hamds28
Psieye wrote:Hmm not a lot of love for Phantom. I want to try a stealth Trench Gun or Iron Curtain (let alone the MSGT AoE gun skills). I suppose Ghost Grenade lets you do it too.
Phantom Trench gunners would wreck GOps. Beagle the first pod, Trench gun the second, shinobi the third one, power walk away as an action movie theme plays in background.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:34 pm
by LordYanaek
I've had a bunch of interesting AWC perks in my last campaign. Here are a few nice picks :
  • Lone Wolf on a Gunner. Doesn't sound that great until you assign her to a sniper heavy squad and she ends up being the solo-tank, area-suppressing enemies with an insane defense thanks to Lone Wolf + Combat Awareness. Oh, she also had Rapid Fire to OW when enemies had no LoS on her.
  • R&G high mobility Ranger. Better than an Assault to plays as a shotgun skirmisher. R&G in the face of an enemy to Rapid Fire it, then get back to safety with Implacable.
  • Light em Up Assault. Equip with a rifle and get up to 3 shots on flanked enemies if you don't move (H&R + LEU + normal action) or R&G to blue-move into a flank and still have 2 shots.
  • Phantom on a Technical. Nice secondary scout and allows for a flamethrower ambush on the second pod. Actually Phantom is great on anyone and i really liked having multiple scouts in some of my squads. Need to go beast mode with the shinobi on second pod, no worry the tech will scout the third.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:37 pm
by Psieye
Yeah I've got a flame technical who will eventually learn Phantom from AWC (there's a large queue in front of her). That will definitely be interesting. But right now I've got a pure medic who is learning CCS in the AWC. He can also learn Serial. Already has Lone Wolf and Damn Good Ground. My brain is trying to process this. It is also scary how I have more than one SSGT who will learn Rapid Reaction from the AWC and has the high Aim to support it. Though I'm caring less about aim these days with a 100 Aim Lead By Example + Fire Discipline officer.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:35 pm
by Snipethis
Rapid Reaction on a DFA Sniper simply broke the game for me. She mows down entire pods on her. On a new turn 'stick her on OW', then I can run any non-concealed guy anywhere safe in the knowledge that if anything gets alerted she mows em down.

I got Phantom on my Gunner which has led to some very interesting flanking + suppression on my 'Locked On' / Mayhem Gunner.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:59 am
by Steelflame
I suppose one of my favorite ones to find is finding Kubikori on Shinobis. Instant combo with Shadow Strike+Conceal builds, and would by itself decide if I built a Shinobi for stealth if I saw it in the AWC.

Re: Perks that are amazing if they were on a different class

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:13 pm
by SonnyWiFiHr
I have shredding Gunner. Only two classes capable of shredding should be Technical and Grenadier .
Shredding should be removed from grenades and should come as perk for Grenadier.
Rest should use AP rounds.