[suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

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warbrand2
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[suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:24 pm

Ok, this may just be me but I sort of wish we had more sidearms in long war two the pistols are nice but would be nice to have some variations.



so here are some ideas, note I do not know if these are good but they are ideas.



FLARE GUN
damage: 0-1
accuracy: low (-20 to aim at all but mid range[about 8 tiles out])
charges: 5 (no reload)
info: upon hitting has a 50% chance of setting the target on fire.

other: signal flare, for the one who wants everything. when fired draws all advent pods to the location and revels all xcom soldiers with in 6 tiles of the shooter.
note: this is meant to be used as an over here distraction.

the point of this weapon is to distract and disorient while it isn't as good as the arc thrower in that regard it is still a great weapon for early to mid game or when you just want to draw out that last damn pod that you can not locate on the kill everything missions. (seriously had a gate keeper run from me for 23 freaking turns before I found the stupid thing, and even then I had to spread everyone out so it nearly killed the guy who found it. who thought it was a good idea to make them run when they are low health.)




taser
damage: 1-2
accuracy: 85%
charges: 1
info: not really a side arm but this taser pistol is a good one range disorientation weapon. it can not hit targets out side of one tile but any target it hits it will disorient (you need an arc thrower to stun). the main advantage to this weapon is if the person equipped with it is bound by a viper they will strike with the taser. note this is not considered a gun even if it uses the animations of one its range is to small.



welrod
damage: 0-10
info: only damages on crit. does 10 damage on a crit.
mechanic: firing while concealed doesn't break concealment, but this comes at the cost of it only damaging targets on a crit that said it does have a higher crit chance then most weapons.



MAIN ARMS IDEAS

just some ideas for main slot weapons. (note all main arm ideas are repeats of old ideas with twists, the idea is to give more tactical options for how you build your characters all ideas in this are meant to be one at a time craft.


Squad automatic weapon
info: what it lacks in ammo cap and damage it makes up for in mobility the SAW is the smg equivalent for the gunner. its main advantage is a +1 to mobility while using compaired to the standard cannon, though it does suffer a 1 point damage reduction and an ammo reduction.


anti material rifle
info: it punches through walls, enemies and well everything with out much trouble the only problem is setting it up.
game play: a stronger sniper rifle but comes at the cost of requiring the user set up and mark target. (full round to do both mark target ends turn and is replaced with fire the next turn.)
mechanics
set up: imobilizes user allows them to aim the weapon
mark target: aims a L.A.M at the target so long as the target doesn't enter high cover and remains in squad site they can be attacked the next turn.
fire: fires teh rifle at the marked target destroying any cover they are hiding behind and dealling heavy damage.(none varriable damage 8, with 3 shredd. ugrades allow for more damage)

game function: designed for more defensive use(so pick and choose when you equip some one with it), the AMR is great for dealing heavy damage to hard targets but is like wasting ammo against weaker targets. it shines against anything that can not take cover as its high aim and ability to hid anything so long as they are not in high cover.

bonus idea: ammo boost, ammo mods have 2x normal effect except tracer rounds. (its a large caliber round more room to put moddify the ammo)


salvaged flamethrower(may be pointless if expansion already has)
info: used by gunners this weapon is a salvaged purifier flamethrower and requires you to have autopsied a purifier corpse. this acts like flamethrower power weapon with the ability to reload. making it one of the more powerful ground control weapons.
game play: the trade off for equipping this is you equip that oh so explosive pack on the soldier, sure they are great at taking out masses of advent and lost now, but they also have a chance to go up in smoke(70% chance of exploding on kill hits as such has a 0% chance to bleed out if it explodes.)




ENEMY IDEA

ok just one here but it is because I really want advent snipers.


ADVENT SNIPER
info: may replace turrets on maps, these guys are mostly imobile and will only move if you flank them. advent snipers use the mechanics of the AMR idea above (requiring squad sight, and taking a full turn before shooting) but only have a standard sniper until later in the game.
gameplay: unlike the player AMR they can not breach cover so getting behind even low cover is advised, and do to them being mostly immobile and giving a red laser to show their location (your AMR does the same) tehy are quite easy to counter but let them take that shot and well it is a 99% chance to hit.

varrents as game does on

viper headhunter
info: a viper with the mechanics of the advent sniper, though unlike the standard one which must set up on its first turn before targeting the viper does not require the set up, this allows them to move if they can not line up a shot and take the shot anyway so watch out. the one saving grace is they have a lower aim (75% instead of 99%- distance in squad site at -5 per tile)


advent tankhunter
info: advent only starts fieldings these after the player puts heavy armor on the field as such these guys are not fielded in standard defense and infact can only be found in reinforcement waves and even then only if the advent detect you using sparks or hacked advent mecs/sectopods.

note: last one is iffy on the idea, the main idea behind it is if the player hacks a sectopod or is using more then one spark a alert is sent out and in a few turns a reinforcment with one of these guys and 2 random will drop one what ever is the highest point on the map. they are built to do one thing and that is take out the players mechanical tanks be they standard sparks or a stolen advent mec. once their target is taken out these guys will flee from battle, so take them out of lose your sparks and allow advent to get away with intel. (not really game function to them running away except for the fact these guys would likely one shot anything not a hacked sectopod and even they they would 2 shot)

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warbrand2
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:31 pm

guessing no one likes these or they are just meh?

Steve-O
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Steve-O » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:25 pm

Mod them up and upload them to Nexusmods/Steam Workshop so we can play around with them and I'm guessing you'd get more feedback.

In LW2, there's enough balance analysis to keep people busy with the changes from one patch to the next, without adding hypothetical items that don't actually exist to the list ;)

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Content Consumer
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Content Consumer » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:40 am

Instead of just sidearms and stuff to go in equipment slots, I'd love to see some more variations in secondary weapons. There are a LOT of things to go in equipment slots - vests, ammo, grenades, pistols, etc. - how about some of these to replace secondary items?

I don't see much point in the taser, and have no opinion either way on the welrod.

I like the flare gun. I think 5 charges is a bit much though... maybe 2? I can picture this going on a Ranger instead of the sawed-off.
For the Assault, an alternative secondary weapon might be an AOE-style stunner? Not like chain lightning, but more like a grenade maybe.
Grenadier's grenade launcher alternate as some sort of rocket launcher. It's a poor idea, but I can't think of anything else for a grenadier. Same goes for the Technical - a grenade launcher instead. Kind of blurs the lines between those classes though, and probably a bad idea for lots of reasons.
A gunner's secondary might be a good one for your taser, now that I think about it. Stun instead of damage.
Sharpshooter secondary: The theme seems to be aim and sight, right? If the holotargeter gives aim, what gives sight? Maybe some sort of long-range remote camera? Instead of being like the battle scanner, this doesn't throw like a grenade but instead fires like a gun and attaches to a unit. Handy for keeping an eye on an enemy that's moved out of sight range.
A shinobi's secondary weapon IS his primary weapon, really. I have no idea on this. ADVENT stun rods?
Not sure about the Specialist either. Maybe allow the specialist to use a SPARK's bit instead? Lower hacking stat, but with a Bombard ability.
The only thing I can think of for a Psi Operative's secondary is a psionic version of the Skulljack. I might be influenced by the Templar on this one though. :) Maybe a multi-charge mimic beacon would be a better idea.

I don't know if any of these are even possible, much less feasable.

I like your SAW and Anti-Material Rifle too. Good to give some weapon variability to those classes.

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warbrand2
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:48 pm

Steve-O wrote:Mod them up and upload them to Nexusmods/Steam Workshop so we can play around with them and I'm guessing you'd get more feedback.

In LW2, there's enough balance analysis to keep people busy with the changes from one patch to the next, without adding hypothetical items that don't actually exist to the list ;)
only problem is I lack the cognitive ability to even understand the basics of modding xcom2 let alone the modeling and integration work that would be required.

Jayyy
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Jayyy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:47 pm

In absolute terms, I think the taser would be too weak. 1 tile away from a disoriented alien is still dangerous. That being said, I really like the concept of perhaps fine tuning the idea and modding in some 1 tile weapons/items/tools, I think some cool things could be made

Zork
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Zork » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:41 am

I think LW2 would benefit more of more missions types. More equipment choices is ok but firstly it means global tuning, secondly for my taste LW2 isn't the best context for that because of the requirement to buy any equipment item which is already very heavy with the army of squads context.

At reverse XCOM series would clearly benefit or more weapons choices instead of just upgrading weapons.
NOT a tactical/strategy expert player, playing LW2 at Easy. Rather old so I appreciate not be bothered by excessive familiarity, I'm not your friend and will never be. Refuse to learn English well so don't attempt learn it to me, thank you. :-)

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Content Consumer
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Content Consumer » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:03 pm

I agree... and I'm seeing several more mission types (and subtypes courtesy of sitreps) in WOTC. If/when we get a Long War for WOTC, that should help.

Re upgrading/purchasing weapons: I hadn't thought of that. Upgrading wouldn't necessarily be a problem, because I think (for example) upgrading the cannon would upgrade the SAW at the same time, style of thing. But purchase cost for the new weapons would take some balancing.

orion_winterfire
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by orion_winterfire » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:21 pm

More mission variants would be nice for sure. However, I'm definitelynot sold on needing more weapons. Seriously, other than range penalties, any possible stat difference is fairly well covered by the different weapon mod configurations and perk choices. Adding more base weapons would cause so much overlap it be impossible to balance because the min-max potential would be so whack.

Steelflame
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Steelflame » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:07 am

orion_winterfire wrote:More mission variants would be nice for sure. However, I'm definitelynot sold on needing more weapons. Seriously, other than range penalties, any possible stat difference is fairly well covered by the different weapon mod configurations and perk choices. Adding more base weapons would cause so much overlap it be impossible to balance because the min-max potential would be so whack.
The only thing I'd like is a SAW for a ligher cannon with different range tables. I absolutely hate the Cannon's range tables in LW2, to the point that I almost never use Gunners.

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warbrand2
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:58 am

thing is there are tons of map mods that expand on the play areas and the expansion is adding a lot more.

weapons, out side of a few side grade reskin mods there are not many.

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8wayz
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by 8wayz » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:10 am

Unlike Jagged Alliance, Xcom has always been about a few classes of weapons and direct upgrades. Even in the original one (1994) the variety came from different ammo types.

As there are quite a few ammo variations in the mod, I am more than fine with. Sidearms require dedicated perks to make them interesting, case in point Combatives for the knife on the Gunner, or the Arc thrower perks.

Adding new sidearms without proper perk support would make them almost like cosmetics - you pick them so they show on the soldier's model but almost never use them. Even the sawed off shotgun on a Ranger, which is quite powerful without perks, rarely gets used due to the great perks for their main weapon.

New types of enemies would be great, but I would leave them for other modders. There are quite a few good picks out there. I can link the ones that caught my eye if would like to?

Documentalx732
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Documentalx732 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:20 pm

A lot of people say PsiOps are OP, or they suck (because heavy resource/time investment), and they always kinda will given the nature of their abilities (guaranteed damage, ignores armor, cooldown based).

I think it could be a interesting idea to scrap the PsiOps class completely, and allow soldiers to train up 2-3 of their ability chains, similar to what was done with pistols. Given randomly to each soldier and the abilities are only useable/active if you have a PsiAmp in a utility slot.

Such as;

Soulfire -> Soul Steal -> Null Lance
Stasis -> Stasis Shield -> Solace
Mind Merge -> Soul Merge -> Domination
Fuse -> Fortress -> Bastion
Insanity -> Schism -> Void Rift

This may be a great opportunity to reintroduce Sustain & Inspire (and rehaul that pesky bonding system WotC is introducing). Maybe other abilities such as a weaker form of Domination and other passives/abilities. (Reanimation anyone?) This could serve as the potential time investement loss the expansion is bound to introduce from AP. Of course Pavonis could still keep the 6 trainable abilities apart of the current system. Honestly though I foresee losing the ability to buy multiple class perks, and AP being used just as an alternative way to get trainable abilities. Extremely hard to balance otherwise.

Alternatively, if and when Long War becomes compatible with WotC, having PsiOps use focus might be a good idea. Cooldown based classes in a turn based strategy game are not a good idea. Not all missions have timers or force you to evac via reinforcements. Even though I'm not a coder by any stretch, I plan to see if I can do this myself.

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warbrand2
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:15 pm

a little off topic there.

Documentalx732
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Documentalx732 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:03 pm

I'm aware. Did not feel like creating a new topic.
If you'd like to hear my feedback then;

Flare gun - Not a bad idea although probably a little weak when compared with alternative ways to burn. I'd rather take dragon rounds or a fire grenade. This has a low chance to hit with only half a chance to burn.
Taser - Not sure why you'd use this over a flashbang.
Welrod - I don't see anybody using this until late game when crit is high. Abuseable.

Squad Automatic Weapon - Not enough of a difference here although I would be interested in seeing the return of the two gunner weapons from the first Long War. Gunners need ammo and damage, not mobility.
Anti Material Rifle - I love this one. XCom could use alternative ways to play.
Salvaged Flamethrower - Yes, risk vs reward. Not sure how I feel about it being re-loadable though. Burning is already pretty numerous and I dare say OP. There's really no other way to build technicals. (Inability to attack via burning/panic >>>>> cover destruction)

New enemies forcing XCom to play differently are always welcome. I know people aren't generally huge fans of enemies with squad sight but it's high time XCom got a little of the shit they are constantly shoveling.

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warbrand2
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:30 pm

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... ext=flamer

No clue why I posted the flamethrower idea, when there is already a mod for it. (and it being reloadable isn't that OP, mostly because if you have to fire off more then the three shots you have then either A its a long mission or B something has gone horibly wrong).

with this mod and said flamer on my technical, I tend to use them as a good area of effect soldier, that and lighting up buildings to burn down a wall can be way to useful some times.

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8wayz
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by 8wayz » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:09 pm

As I pointed above, most of your suggestions already exist in some shape of form as independent mods.

Examples:

Advent Sniper - Exactly like you described it
Celatid Alien - New alien from the original Xcom
Bio Troops - an interesting twist at area denial
Muton Demolisher - your anti-armor unit par excellence.
Advent Headhunter - a better equipped Stunnlancer that can throw axes as well and go into hiding. This seems like it was the inspiration for the Assassin in War of the Chosen. :)

Just have a look and you will find a lot of interesting mods that already cover and/or expand on your ideas.

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Content Consumer
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by Content Consumer » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:39 pm

I've used Advent Sniper, Celatid, and Bio Troops (with the base game, none with LW2 - may be incompatible). Haven't used the other ones.

The Advent Sniper is an excellent addition to ADVENT's roster, adding in more challenge without being overwhelming.
The Celatid never really clicked with me. I like the concept, and the model looks great, but it never felt quite right. I don't know why.
Bio Troops was a little too difficult for me to handle at the time, but would probably be fine on a lower (commander or lower) difficulty level.

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warbrand2
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Re: [suggestions] side arms, main arms and enemy ideas

Post by warbrand2 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 pm

8wayz wrote:As I pointed above, most of your suggestions already exist in some shape of form as independent mods.

Examples:

Advent Sniper - Exactly like you described it
Celatid Alien - New alien from the original Xcom
Bio Troops - an interesting twist at area denial
Muton Demolisher - your anti-armor unit par excellence.
Advent Headhunter - a better equipped Stunnlancer that can throw axes as well and go into hiding. This seems like it was the inspiration for the Assassin in War of the Chosen. :)

Just have a look and you will find a lot of interesting mods that already cover and/or expand on your ideas.

I have used all of these mods in the past.... still have the celatid and sniper. (it was the insperation of the idea I posted, though it is more mobile and a lot faster on teh drawl)

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