What to do with a high vigilance region?

Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by Psieye » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:57 pm

Noober wrote: Be advised that Relay doesn't counter as a inv. object so it's immune to insta-kill by Shaped Charge/Rockets/Bunker Bustard/Sapper-Combat Eng. Explosives. They (other then Shaped Charge) will still damage it but just it's a scratch.
You misunderstand: the Shaped Charge (and other options) aren't there to kill the Relay. It's to remove the walls so the snipers have line of sight. I always have 3 snipers (some with Double Tap) having line of sight on a relay from squadsight. If it's as weak as 10-ish HP, there's easier ways so I'm going to assume a standard 30 HP relay. If the relay is as close as 4 dashes, then OM + Overdrive Serum + Command + Wraith Suit on a tank shinobi will go a long way - especially if the aliens waste turns shooting civilians instead of the shinobi.

I need to experiment with activating a pod by dashing past it.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd

LordYanaek
Posts: 940
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Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by LordYanaek » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:25 pm

Psieye wrote:Relay gets affected by Bluescreen rounds iirc?
Normal relays are. I honestly don't know for the invasion relay as i just crushed it in the ground with a Spark's bombard but i assume it is.

Bombard is also my favorite tool for "inconvenient walls removal" on any mission which involves destroying a relay and was an integral part of my 0% Destroy the Relay to prevent retaliations in 1.2 since it's an AOE with huge environmental damage that works from squadsight. I always take it on every spark.
Noober wrote:Yes, it's by far the most difficult mission in the game even at midgame when s.commander is not a factor.
Mhh, i didn't have a Sectoid Commander in the Invasion i played. The most annoying stuff were the bugs running around and spawning babies.
I lost a bunch of rebels, i don't think it's possible to not loose any, and took some wounds but the mission was definitely possible. Killing the relay ASAP is your topmost priority of course since you definitely don't want to face endless RNFs. Having a Spark definitely proved useful (i had actually engaged both of my Sparks on that Invasion)
With Infiltration not a factor on Invasion, i think the best approach is the heavy duty squad with as many Gunners, Sparks and Grenadiers as you can field, keeping a spot for a Shinobi and 2 snipers to kill from afar. An assault or two can also help a lot.
Of course, having the relay on a roof helped me but my plan was exactly like Psieye said, kill the relay with snipers after removing any possible LoS blocking walls in the way (with Bombard in my case). That's how i played the Invasion i got in my 1.2 campaign (Relay was inside a building in that one) and it worked nicely.
And I would suggest to remove sectoid commander from the pool for Invasion and Forge missions as on both you should kill tons of advents (= tons of zombies) and time pressure force you to move agressively and engage a lot of ayys.
Does the Forge really have a timer? I didn't notice any and this time i didn't stealth it. I assumed there would be one for both the forge and blacksite but got no timer and almost no RNFs (i think there was one pod immediately after i grabbed the objective, but that's it) :?

Psieye
Posts: 829
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Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by Psieye » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:02 pm

I want a Spark, I really do. But I have fucked up guys coming out of the AWC tube now and they all want coil weapons. Can't sell Elerium Cores anymore as I need to break them down to feed the Elerium needs of this coil spam.

I heard somewhere that Forge throws brutal RNF at you if you wait like 80 turns or something.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd

Noober
Posts: 129
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Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by Noober » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:47 pm

The relay will indeed have 30+ HP but from what I heared it can be one-shotted with 10+ dmg shot.
And that's true - at least for me in 1.4.
This was very important to me as I bring only 1 sniper but not for 2-3 snipers as they will also destroy it in one turn with regular shots.

From what I knew in 1.2 we have only 20 turns from the beginig of the mission before the doom RNF start dropping every turn.
But it appeared to be wrong in 1.4.
I didn't know they'd changed the timer so I rush to finish it in less then 20 turn.
And of cause I was swarmed by zombies as a result: turn 9 = 20 ayys active of which 9 - 10 HP 80 aim zombies. One move - another pod of 6 active. All kind of elite snakes incl. snipy ones, MK2 Archon, MK3 advents - all serious business.
And 2 sectoid commanders in sight. This is my chance to get rid of zombies! I killed them both but - surprise!
No one of them had beign responsible for resurrecting. There was another s.commander faaar back inside the facility and of cause it was the one who resurrected all of this nonsence.
And the Sectopod I hoped to control and who always beign not far from the start this time was spawn near the obj and never left the facility so when I finaly found him and took him under control it was virtually useless as there were only 5 more aliens left on the map...
Total BS.
I managed to finish Forge in 27 truns and RNF indicator was still green. So I don't know the real timer now but I don't want to try this rush any more...

JulianSkies
Posts: 301
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Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by JulianSkies » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:37 pm

Noober wrote:Be advised that Relay doesn't counter as a inv. object so it's immune to insta-kill by Shaped Charge/Rockets/Bunker Bustard/Sapper-Combat Eng. Explosives. They (other then Shaped Charge) will still damage it but just it's a scratch.
? I distinctively remember rushing a grenadier with combat engineer to destroy a relay about three weeks ago.

stefan3iii
Posts: 319
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Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by stefan3iii » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:29 pm

JulianSkies wrote:
Noober wrote:Be advised that Relay doesn't counter as a inv. object so it's immune to insta-kill by Shaped Charge/Rockets/Bunker Bustard/Sapper-Combat Eng. Explosives. They (other then Shaped Charge) will still damage it but just it's a scratch.
? I distinctively remember rushing a grenadier with combat engineer to destroy a relay about three weeks ago.
Was it on a roof? You can insta kill it if it's on a roof, because if it falls it dies regardless of how much damage it takes. This is why bombard is so effective, SPARK can launch it from anywhere on the map, as long as someone (ex stealthed shinobi) has vision on the relay.

JulianSkies
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 am

Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by JulianSkies » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:48 am

stefan3iii wrote:
JulianSkies wrote:
Noober wrote:Be advised that Relay doesn't counter as a inv. object so it's immune to insta-kill by Shaped Charge/Rockets/Bunker Bustard/Sapper-Combat Eng. Explosives. They (other then Shaped Charge) will still damage it but just it's a scratch.
? I distinctively remember rushing a grenadier with combat engineer to destroy a relay about three weeks ago.
Was it on a roof? You can insta kill it if it's on a roof, because if it falls it dies regardless of how much damage it takes. This is why bombard is so effective, SPARK can launch it from anywhere on the map, as long as someone (ex stealthed shinobi) has vision on the relay.
Yeah, it was on a roof. Oh, wait, was Noober implying with "inv. object" something like a wall? Alright, that was a very bad misunderstanding of mine.

Icarus
Posts: 151
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Re: What to do with a high vigilance region?

Post by Icarus » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:10 am

Regarding the OP's question: strength 5 sounds like a fine time to liberate (strong enough to lose full 4 legions, weak enough not to be too difficult e. g. with smaller teams).

But depending on how high vigilance actually is, it can make sense to keep it for the vigilance and as a honey trap for legions. That will make you waste your S&Gs and will not let you get supplies without DEs potentially passing by - but depending on your difficulty I'm not sure you'll be able to sustain keeping regions S&G-friendly for long.

So I wouldn't let S&G- friendliness factor in my decision whether or not to liberate. I'd just be like:
- Do I need a legion honeytrap? -> keep it, rebels on intel.
- Does the region has very high vigilance (e. g. >25) and do I want to delay Avatar a bit more? -> same.
- Do I need supplies more than that? -> liberate.

Keep in mind though that liberation increases vigilance everywhere else which can easily push other regions out of their profitable vigilance width.

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