Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

I hope there's not already a thread like that, so I made one.

I had such a Situation yesterday that not only went FUBAR, but maximum against-all-odds FUBAR.

I can't even remember everything that went wrong. What I remember: my assault missed two 80%-shots in a row, two of my guys got hit behind full cover with enemies firing from afar, and my gunner suppressed a muton, which was also far away and got shot by it for lethal 8 Points of damage. And all of that in the tight span of 2 turns.

And that was the Moment when I said, ok, no, not with me. And reloaded.

Please share your not-with-me Moments.
Icarus
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:26 pm

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Icarus »

Well, basically everything that's got to do with rulers, for me. I houseruled that savescumming is ok to deal with ruler bullshit. Made the rule when archon ruler appeared to my A-team, used its mass AOE marker, then triggered it when I tried to move the first guy away. All my guys were neatly lined up on top of a building. O_o
*boom* *fall* *lose*

As I consider the ruler mechanic full-on cheating, I'm like this:
- him: *ruler action: cheapshoot team*
- me: *player action: reload and try again*

Basically: if you bring your bullshit mechanic, I bring mine.
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

True.
Way I see it, the Aliens got nothing on me. I am the commander and I Control time and space. :D
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Dwarfling »

Accidentally dropping a Bleeding:1 soldier in the evac instead of hitting Evac.

I'm like... Nope :!:
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

Dwarfling wrote:Accidentally dropping a Bleeding:1 soldier in the evac instead of hitting Evac.

I'm like... Nope :!:
Situations like that make me never, ever push the "Ironman" button ;)
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Dwarfling »

Phaseless wrote:Situations like that make me never, ever push the "Ironman" button ;)
Same. Also:

- Glitchy cursor when clicking over high terrain making you move a soldier into the open or throw a grenade into empty space.
- Shifting icons in the action bar making you do something else... Like wasting a Command.
- Quitting a session only to come back another day and forget something important like starting an infiltration or assigning personnel, etc.
- Bugs in general. I like to be able to submit saves.
Psieye
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Psieye »

I'd have never arrived at my 8-man GOp squad doctrine if I played Ironman. There was one mission where I sat down with an 8-man squad and just tried out different tactics to succeed on a Moderate Str 5 Alien Relay mission.

Since I use Peek from Concealment (and don't play with Alien Rulers - frost grenades make the game unfun), I find I don't need to savescum much at all. I'll take bullshit RNG results. I'll reload for "I just got back from a shitty day at work and didn't think my tactics through" - it's rare for work to be so shit I stop thinking completely. I'll also reload for bugs and bad UI: "oh sorry, this tile looks like it's high cover but it's no cover".
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

I always try to balance fairness and my mood. When I feel really, really down on my luck I won't drag myself down by not reloading when something really bad happens.
When a very important character dies, I have to admit, I almost never can make myself not reload. Maybe later in the campaign when I know with tight housekeeping I can take the hit. But at the beginning of a campaign, one or several deaths can really set you back a ton.

On the other hand I want to experience a campaign where I take the hits like they come. How do you guys do it so you can live with it?
I am considering playing a parallel ironman campaign just so I can get the real feeling of no return. If shit happens there, I know I still have my "normal" campaign. Problem is, I will probably consider my normal campaign useless and cheating when that happens. And then my feels are destroyed.

Dilemma, guys. Dilemma.
Psieye
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Psieye »

Phaseless wrote: On the other hand I want to experience a campaign where I take the hits like they come. How do you guys do it so you can live with it?
With Hunker/LoS blocking and the mindset of "if the enemy got to roll RNG at all, I already failed." They don't shoot if they have 0% chance to hit. Likewise for the earlygame, a lot of frags so I don't have to roll to hit unless I've got a gun to the face, preferably 100+graze band % to hit.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

Dunno. I used hunker a lot in XCom Enemy Unknown but here, almost never for several reasons like 1) Clock ticking, almost always
and 2) Enemies exist that can still do stuff to you, like sectoids or just aoe.
LoS blocking is effective but how often is that really an option and feasably doable?

Is it just a guideline mentally to try and reduce rolling the dice or are you actually managing to play without rolling the dice at all? Are you an experienced ironman player?
Exquisitor
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Exquisitor »

Given the instability I've seen in the game, I have no problem saving it frequently and reloading from errors. I'm a beer and pretzels player and I play when I'm tired after a long day's work or whatever, so if I make an egregious error, I'll reload. For example, I'm sure you've experienced the movement err where you click one square, but the mouse slips or shifts and you end up in the exposed square next to full cover. Yeah, if that's a death or alert, that's a reload.

Here's a definite mimimi moment: Doing the Forge, get all the way to the Forge item, do the video clip, start moving to the evac area, get evacuated, and then realize, damn, I forgot to pick up the forge item! Reload! Here's another: setting up an HQ mission, spend too many days waiting for it hit 100%, land at the HQ, but then realize I forgot to bring my shinobi for OW traps. Oops! Yeah, that was a reload, but lost all of that time waiting for the mission to hit 100%...
Psieye
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Psieye »

Phaseless wrote:Dunno. I used hunker a lot in XCom Enemy Unknown but here, almost never for several reasons like 1) Clock ticking, almost always
and 2) Enemies exist that can still do stuff to you, like sectoids or just aoe.
LoS blocking is effective but how often is that really an option and feasably doable?

Is it just a guideline mentally to try and reduce rolling the dice or are you actually managing to play without rolling the dice at all? Are you an experienced ironman player?
I don't do ironman, but I do 8-man GOp missions (from June onwards - you need a tech advantage). Giving 15 enemies the dice is suicide. If snipers kill all the dangerous AoE and there's only 1 visible tank I need to look after, you can deny dice rolls to the AI. Knowing exactly how much Aim the enemies have and Def my guys have is key to calculating when the AI won't even roll dice. If I can't deny the dice for a soldier, they shouldn't even be seen by the enemy. Now sometimes I fuck up and the enemy gets to roll dice. But it's not unusual for 20 enemies to die and they get like 2 dice rolls total.

Case in point: the General in HQ missions is trivial (once you've killed everything else) if you have a Shadowstep + Low Profile shinobi hunker-tank him with Aid Protocol (2 specs to perpetually keep it up). All he'll ever do is blue-move once and OW. You just keep moving your shinobi to avoid being flanked. Now the General is this sad thing walking around slowly and never shooting. Snipers can take their time killing him.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

Learn something new everyday, thanks.

Relevant to this thread:

Looking forward to playing long war 2
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When long war 2 kills all the family you have
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TrainInVain
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:24 pm

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by TrainInVain »

I've had several haven defense missions that starts a soldier in burning fire. I usually go back to a geoscape save to reload the mission when it happens. Though mid and late game I go pretty heavy on hazmat vests so sometimes it doesn't matter. I supposed I should learn to console command to simply move the soldier.
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

Tried doing solo missions like xwynn. Needless to say, they failed.
Had to learn the hard way that you blow your cover when you hack something. Too bad, because up to that Point, sneaking up to the Workstation I was supposed to hack was no Problem. But then I got drone stunlocked and that was it.

Then I tried VIP rescue. Went well for half the way, we snuck along the edge like xwynn told. But when we reached the end of the Building, there was a sectoid patrol that would have spotted the VIP. So I stayed and hoped they would go away. But nah, instead they came towards us and spotted us. VIP ran for it, activated another pod, shinobi blinded the sectoid so at least no mind Control. No damage taken the first salvo thanks to high cover. Then, I sent them up the Building, out of cover. Bad move, 2 more pods, death all around.
BTAxis
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by BTAxis »

I often reload when the game lies to me ("this path is safe! No activations will occur! Oh hi, have some activations") or when it does stuff I never asked for, such as when you try to steady weapon with a soldier when that soldier hasn't finished moving, which can lead to weird crap like tossing an evac flare to the other side of the map.
Phaseless
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

BTAxis wrote:I often reload when the game lies to me ("this path is safe! No activations will occur! Oh hi, have some activations") or when it does stuff I never asked for, such as when you try to steady weapon with a soldier when that soldier hasn't finished moving, which can lead to weird crap like tossing an evac flare to the other side of the map.
Not sure if you know this and just find it unfair or if you actually don't, but: you only get to see activation warnings for enemies you can see. Often you don't see the full pod and hence don't know which tiles might be dangerous to step on. In most situations, you can solve this by approaching at least with one unit from an angle where you can see the full pod.
BTAxis
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Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by BTAxis »

Phaseless wrote:Not sure if you know this and just find it unfair or if you actually don't, but: you only get to see activation warnings for enemies you can see. Often you don't see the full pod and hence don't know which tiles might be dangerous to step on. In most situations, you can solve this by approaching at least with one unit from an angle where you can see the full pod.
Yeah, I know. But I've been in situation where the enemies would see me despite the UI telling me they wouldn't. Gotcha decides they can't see me while the game decides they can. It can happen when a unit just marginally passes through a visible tile without fully entering it, and I've had it happen with height differences as well.
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

BTAxis wrote:
Phaseless wrote:Not sure if you know this and just find it unfair or if you actually don't, but: you only get to see activation warnings for enemies you can see. Often you don't see the full pod and hence don't know which tiles might be dangerous to step on. In most situations, you can solve this by approaching at least with one unit from an angle where you can see the full pod.
Yeah, I know. But I've been in situation where the enemies would see me despite the UI telling me they wouldn't. Gotcha decides they can't see me while the game decides they can. It can happen when a unit just marginally passes through a visible tile without fully entering it, and I've had it happen with height differences as well.
Damn that's annoying.
Just today I got recommended the peek from concealment mod, sounds like that's just what you'd Need. I'll definitely install it.
One of it's Features is that if you move from full cover, you can move through 3 visible tiles without getting spotted. That should insta-kill your Problem.

Also you can't be spotted in full cover or when in cover in an above Level of the map.
BTAxis
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by BTAxis »

Phaseless wrote:Damn that's annoying.
Just today I got recommended the peek from concealment mod, sounds like that's just what you'd Need. I'll definitely install it.
One of it's Features is that if you move from full cover, you can move through 3 visible tiles without getting spotted. That should insta-kill your Problem.

Also you can't be spotted in full cover or when in cover in an above Level of the map.
Aye. I've been using that mod since I got XCOM 2, and wouldn't play without it anymore. Like you said, it helps immensely with activation issues, BUT not in missions where you don't start out concealed. That's typically the situation where I run into this particular issue, because I'll send out Phantom soldiers to scout ahead and then rely on Gotcha to keep the revealed units out of their sight.
Phaseless
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Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

Oh ok. Yeah I've had the same problem just today.
JailorSerry
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Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by JailorSerry »

I play with a certain story-driven RPG kind of style. I have a core squad of 7-8 soldiers with backstories, fully customized looks, nicknames, etc. They drive my game play- and suffer the consequences accordingly. I restart missions often due to misclicks, stupid moves, just being completely unlucky (I know, "XCom, baby"). My goal is fun, not trying to maintain some sort of gamer-cred integrity.

If I have a squad of super experienced soldiers and they do everything they're supposed to and still get wiped, restart. Conversely, a squad of rookies don't get the same consideration.

In my most current mission (the Psi Gate), I had a massive amount of powerful enemies up against my most experienced squad. One of my core guys took a few bad hits, was bleeding out, but ultimately stabilized. Once all active enemies were wiped, I was able to revive him, and planned on healing him on the next turn. My front line units moved up one tile too far, activated a ramped-up Muton/Sectoid/Viper pod who, of course, targeted my wounded guy and wound up killing him outright. Narratively, my squad, enraged, directed all firepower towards the killer first, then indiscriminately wiped out the rest of the pod- though recklessly. On the gaming side that meant no real technical tactics, just low/no-cover flanks while doling out the highest amount of damage possible. Took a lot of damage that round, but fortunately, no other casualties.

Narratively, the wake was nice- from what the soldiers could remember. Between painkillers and alcohol, it's a wonder we didn't lose another solider.

On the gaming side, I scrutinized my roster trying to find a replacement soldier for my lost gunner and how to effectively get him up to a comparable fighting level.

TL;DR: I try to balance game play with realistic story-telling and not letting the RNG completely drive the game. I play for the fun of it, not the math of it. Min-maxing gets boring quickly.
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by gimrah »

Bugs.

Misclicks.

The before-the-consequence screw up when you meant to do something else but brainfarted and did the equivalent of putting your queen in front of Advent's pawn.

Science. If I want to test perk interaction I'll give myself a mulligan in advance.

Lame loss of concealment. So getting trolled by a near-LZ stealth civ, getting trolled by a higher detection range enemy in a pod when only that guy was obscured (sometimes at least, when I'm just not in the mood). More or less anything on a UFO detection suicide mission (it's gamey anyway and that's basically the only way you get to do UFOs). And losing shinobi concealment early on an HQ - with no justification other than it turns the mission into ultragrind mode as you inch forward.

That's already quite a long list. When I start savescumming other stuff it's usually a sign I'm losing anyway and usually I end up losing interest in the campaign and restart shortly after. I just wish the AI didn't prioritise my late game carry build soldiers quite so much.
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

gimrah wrote:Bugs.

Misclicks.

The before-the-consequence screw up when you meant to do something else but brainfarted and did the equivalent of putting your queen in front of Advent's pawn.

Science. If I want to test perk interaction I'll give myself a mulligan in advance.

Lame loss of concealment. So getting trolled by a near-LZ stealth civ, getting trolled by a higher detection range enemy in a pod when only that guy was obscured (sometimes at least, when I'm just not in the mood). More or less anything on a UFO detection suicide mission (it's gamey anyway and that's basically the only way you get to do UFOs). And losing shinobi concealment early on an HQ - with no justification other than it turns the mission into ultragrind mode as you inch forward.

That's already quite a long list. When I start savescumming other stuff it's usually a sign I'm losing anyway and usually I end up losing interest in the campaign and restart shortly after. I just wish the AI didn't prioritise my late game carry build soldiers quite so much.
Same. Way I see it, Ironman and higher difficulties in General are for Players who don't Need to test and can make good judgement call. They don't Need to test, so no mulligansies. They know what to expect when infiltrating only half, so no reload and Abort Mission.

JailorSerry wrote:I play with a certain story-driven RPG kind of style. I have a core squad of 7-8 soldiers with backstories, fully customized looks, nicknames, etc. They drive my game play- and suffer the consequences accordingly. I restart missions often due to misclicks, stupid moves, just being completely unlucky (I know, "XCom, baby"). My goal is fun, not trying to maintain some sort of gamer-cred integrity.

If I have a squad of super experienced soldiers and they do everything they're supposed to and still get wiped, restart. Conversely, a squad of rookies don't get the same consideration.

In my most current mission (the Psi Gate), I had a massive amount of powerful enemies up against my most experienced squad. One of my core guys took a few bad hits, was bleeding out, but ultimately stabilized. Once all active enemies were wiped, I was able to revive him, and planned on healing him on the next turn. My front line units moved up one tile too far, activated a ramped-up Muton/Sectoid/Viper pod who, of course, targeted my wounded guy and wound up killing him outright. Narratively, my squad, enraged, directed all firepower towards the killer first, then indiscriminately wiped out the rest of the pod- though recklessly. On the gaming side that meant no real technical tactics, just low/no-cover flanks while doling out the highest amount of damage possible. Took a lot of damage that round, but fortunately, no other casualties.

Narratively, the wake was nice- from what the soldiers could remember. Between painkillers and alcohol, it's a wonder we didn't lose another solider.

On the gaming side, I scrutinized my roster trying to find a replacement soldier for my lost gunner and how to effectively get him up to a comparable fighting level.

TL;DR: I try to balance game play with realistic story-telling and not letting the RNG completely drive the game. I play for the fun of it, not the math of it. Min-maxing gets boring quickly.
On my "leniency" campaign, which I Play ahead of my Ironman campaign, I do it just like you. If my Team or several good People would get wiped, I reload. But if not so important personnel gets killed or if I get several wounded, I carry on.

Playing both lenient and Ironman I have to say, both have their charms. If the heartbreak is too real, I can reload on my lenient campaign. Ironman on the other Hand is more entertaining, because the Story is more believable and because you feel greater reward when you Play well. You know it could have worked out differently and you know that your experience made you do the right Things.

That's why I believe Ironman is best played with enough experience under your belt and if coupled with a lenient playthrough, you can fall back to that one if something tragic happened in Ironman. I like it this way.
Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Mimimi moments, or no regrets when reloading a save

Post by Phaseless »

I had my first dark VIP missions where there were several faceless all over the place. Since it was my first mission of this kind PLUS faceless dark event for the first time, I watched my squad get wiped several times before now deciding to reload at a spot in the mission where I survived my first faceless and should know - ok, faceless infested, getting the hell out of here.

Personally I would be a lot happier with the faceless not attacking the same turn they activate, but eh. In case that never happens, I'll just evac back home whenever shit like this happens.

It sucks very badly though since advent are getting stronger by the day in that mission and I really need to liberate it. Now I gotta wait until that damn mission pops back up. I can't win this without grade A save scumming and I'm not going to do that.
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