1.5 playthrough questions and observations

infidel901
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:41 pm

1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:57 pm

I haven't done a playthrough since 1.2
Also changelogs are not for me, so if any of this was already dealt with there, sorry.

Going to play on commander, but not ironman, even though i really want to, because i am a klutz and there is no way to take back that click where you accidentally hit " Overwatch all" when half your troops are in the open and have not done anything.

First observations:
1) red fog not affecting alien aim to the extent i thought it would. I have it on quadratic. The alien officer had 6 or 7 health to begin with, I took him down to 1 point, and yet he still had 34% aiming up at me on a roof in half cover. Nearly killed my gunner.

2) ̶)̶ ̶M̶o̶v̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶o̶b̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶ ̶k̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶.̶ ̶W̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶f̶l̶a̶n̶k̶i̶n̶g̶,̶ ̶a̶v̶o̶i̶d̶a̶n̶c̶e̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶m̶o̶v̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶4̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶1̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶N̶C̶E̶,̶ ̶I̶M̶O̶.̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶l̶b̶o̶x̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶l̶e̶g̶i̶t̶ ̶(̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶f̶f̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶)̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶N̶C̶E̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶d̶a̶ ̶s̶i̶m̶p̶l̶i̶s̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶1̶.̶5̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶1̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶.̶5̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶l̶e̶ ̶.̶5̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶r̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶s̶?̶

̶3̶)̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶r̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶n̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶4̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶s̶?̶ ̶R̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶?̶ ̶N̶o̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶e̶l̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶4̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶s̶.̶ ̶E̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶n̶ ̶i̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶1̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶.̶ ̶I̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶i̶t̶i̶g̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶?̶ ̶I̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶.̶i̶n̶i̶?̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶s̶o̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶?̶

̶4̶)̶S̶o̶l̶d̶i̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶n̶i̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶i̶n̶j̶u̶r̶e̶d̶.̶ ̶I̶n̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶w̶o̶r̶d̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶h̶i̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶1̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶b̶l̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶m̶o̶r̶.̶ ̶I̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶t̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶u̶g̶?̶
̶
̶5̶)̶ ̶B̶u̶g̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶o̶o̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶p̶i̶c̶k̶u̶p̶ ̶z̶o̶n̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶i̶ ̶w̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶w̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶y̶e̶t̶.̶ ̶B̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶.̶.̶.̶i̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶.̶ ̶N̶o̶t̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶ ̶D̶O̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶e̶v̶a̶c̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶u̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶

6) ̶G̶r̶a̶z̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶p̶p̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶.̶ ̶H̶o̶w̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶d̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶w̶a̶r̶d̶s̶?̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶l̶i̶d̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶i̶d̶e̶a̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶.̶

7) So, okay the timers. The timers seem to have been lengthened somewhat from when i last played (v1.2), but the reinforcement schedule makes the timer length a lie. Any way to tone down the reinforcement thing? I just played a mission, in the first few weeks, where the map was enormous. There were 25 turns allowed on timer, but once i got to near my objective (rescue prisoners), the reinforcements started coming, and coming and....if i had been in an ironman game, I would have lost then and there. There were still 11 turns left on timer. Big fat lot of good it did me.

8) Are aliens better and tracking sound now? I have been experiencing every alien on the map come running at me, in multiple missions, after a fight starts. I mean i know this is a signature move, but ...they seem a little too good at it.

9) If indeed aliens track sounds ..like smashing glass...then the independent movement of the specialist gremlins is an issue. On maps where we start revealed, gremlins can go crashing through windows with abandon, even though the specialist was careful to not make any commotion.

10) Spikey difficulty. So for a while now the aliens have been getting stronger as you would expect. I have predator armor and lasers ( on half my troops anyways), but then all of a sudden it seems, the aliens have been getting huge buffs of HP, armor, advanced weapons ( plasma grenades with huge radius, rockets, and incendiaries), lots of snakes and Mindcontrolling sectoids with 10 hp?
Every mission i have been given that allows me to counter a DE, i take it, and have won them all, but the DE's are rapidly accumulating nonetheless.

11) A suggestion for any of you modders out there: make a meta-mod that provides a GUI for all the adjustable .ini files, with full translations of what they do, exactly. Make sliders or something, that allow us to fine-tune every tunable element. Please?

12) Again...spikey difficulty!! Holy smokes. I am still piddling around in predator armor/lasers with a couple mag weapons mixed in, but the aliens have CRAZY HP!! I am fighting Archons and Officers and Berserkers with so much HP that it requires over 7 shots to kill them!! If you look at xwynns playthrough ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... TccjbZP_9n ), it relies on being able to pull only a couple pods, then locking down and killing them methodically. Now, it is just not possible to kill even one pod without them getting many opportunities to kill my squad, my squishy squishy squad. And as i noted in (8) above, sound seems to pull all the pods very effectively anyway, so forget 1 or 2 pods....which leads to

13) Locking down: red fog and disorientation do not seem to work as well in managing the enemies. They seem to still be able to all-too reliably slaughter my squadies.

14) Stealth is dead? Most missions where i would like to stealth in a bit closer to objectives, there is always always always a drone monitoring the approach. Every approach. Either drone or patrol.

15) "protect the convoy" missions are really a trap? Had those big beefy acid throwing super mutons and greater archons with support staff just popping in out of nowhere, fighting my troops with mag/laser weapons, and my poor resistance fighters who, in a group of 5, would be very very lucky if they could take a greater archon to half health before being slaughtered.


Will keep updating as things occur.
Last edited by infidel901 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:00 am, edited 7 times in total.

faket15
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by faket15 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:50 pm

2) The weights don't represent what you think they do. If you read the file again you will see that one point of mobility has the same value as 1 HP or 4 points of aim.

3) It's 4 actions, not 4 turns.

infidel901
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:50 am

Thank you faket15.

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8wayz
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by 8wayz » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:23 am

1) Red fog should reduce stats by percentage, though I have not looked at the files yet how and which stats. Even at 1 HP that unit should still be able to shoot and hit you.

2) As pointed, Movement is on the same level as HP on the Not Created Equally scale. So you should still get some fast soldiers.

3) The Stun counter is for actions. So 4 actions equal 2 turns.

4) Soldiers still count as injured if they get hit in terms of Will checks, even if they do not lose regular HP. Think of it like this - even if you just get a scratch, they are still showering you with plasma blasts and you are under some serious fire. Some people crack under pressure.

5) That is not a bug, it was a feature since the original Xcom 2. If you have a soldier in the EVAC Zone, you will get the prompt to evac them out of there. To remedy this, just manually end your turn (Backspace by default).

It was done to help you not forget that you can Evac a soldier.

infidel901
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:48 am

Thank you 8wayz.

Thrair
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Thrair » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:21 am

6) Grazing is now a core game mechanic, rather than a Viper-thing as in Vanilla. The Graze Band is a +/- value that shaves off of the to-hit rolls the game makes when you take a shot. By default, it's 10% on each side (miss and hit). It's somewhat mathy, so bear with me.

So in Vanilla, a 60% chance shot would be 60% hit, 40% miss. In LW2, this same 60% shot (per the display) is actually a 50% chance of a hit. But instead of missing outright on the rest of the shots, there's also a 20% chance of a graze, and only a 30% chance out an outright miss. The intent is to smooth out damage a little and also to simulate glancing shots.

There is, however, also the dodge stat. Most units have a dodge stat. In vanilla, a dodge roll from the stat made a hit a dodge for half damage. In Long War 2, a successful dodge roll "downgrades" a hit result. A crit becomes a normal hit, a normal hit becomes a graze, and a graze becomes a total miss. Similarly, LW2 separates crit from the to-hit calculations. It's now a separate roll entirely. (In Vanilla, if you had 10% crit, you would ALWAYS crit on any shot that was 10% or less). This roll upgrades damage. A miss becomes a graze, a graze a hit, and a hit a crit.

If crit and dodge are BOTH rolled successfully, they offset and the hit result is left as is. Here is a good visualization someone made for the system.


7) Yeah. LW2 effectively removed the "hard" timers of Vanilla, where your soldiers were immediately captured if the arbitrary time limit ran out. Instead, reinforcements gradually begin dropping more frequently and in bigger waves once they are triggered. This is meant to serve as a difficult "soft" cap to mission length, where past a point you don't instantly lose, but you should no longer be trying to do anything but evac and get the hell out of dodge. Having only 11 turns on the timer is generally at the point where, in Vanilla, you'd already have ran out of time and lost outright. Instead, you still have a fighting chance to get your soldiers out, even if it's difficult as hell.

The definite downside to this approach is that captures are a lot rarer. You're likely to get overwhelmed by reinforcements and be KIA/Bleeding out for all your troops long before you reach the hard time limit, now.

LW2 added a UI feature that shows roughly how long you have before reinforcements arrive. If there's no warning at all, reinforcements have not yet been triggered. Once it's green, they're triggered and will begin to arrive indefinitely. At yellow, you've passed the half-way mark until the next wave. Red means they're landing next turn.

What this means is that, if the first wave is triggered and will arrive in 8 turns, the warning will be green for 4 turns, yellow for 3, and the red for the final turn before they land. The next wave might be, say, 6 turns. So 3 green, 2 yellow, 1 red. And so on.

In general, the faster the warning moves from green to yellow, the less time you have between waves. If it goes from green to yellow quickly, you really need to consider heading to the Evac ASAP.

infidel901
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:34 am

Thank you, Thrair.

Very thorough explanation of the graze banding..but i can't say i understand it yet. Even the illustration isn't really doing it for me...but i get the general idea. However, not sure what would happen if i adjusted the slider.

Yeah i picked up on the UI element for the reinforcement timing..but i would like to know how to a) increase the time delay between pod drops and b)increase the time before the reinforcement schedule begins.

Skyfire
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Skyfire » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:53 am

infidel901 wrote:Very thorough explanation of the graze banding..but i can't say i understand it yet. Even the illustration isn't really doing it for me...but i get the general idea. However, not sure what would happen if i adjusted the slider.
The general principal is simple: decrease it and you get fewer grazes (and more hits and misses), increase it and you get more grazes (and fewer hits and misses). One key thing to remember is that this all affects both sides. I've said 'you' quite a lot in the explanation below, but everything I said applies equally to the aliens as well.

Maybe some example numbers will help:

0% Graze Band
Like this, the graze band mechanic has no effect at all; if you roll above the target number you hit, if you roll below it you miss, and that's all there is to it. (You can still get a graze because of the target's dodge stat, but dodge and the graze band are different mechanics even if they have similar end results.)

30% Graze Band
You'll start seeing a lot more grazes but fewer clean hits and fewer clean misses. A 70% shot would have no chance at all to miss, but would only have a 40% chance to score a full hit - over half of your 70%-to-hit shots would end up being grazes. With this graze band setting you'd only rarely have a guaranteed full-damage hit (you'd need at least 130% to hit), and risky shots are even less likely to get a full hit (a 50% shot only has a 20% chance of that). On the other hand, as noted above, you'll get a lot of partial-damage grazes. 30-40% overwatch shots now have 60-70% chance for some damage, and even a 0% shot will graze almost a third of the time.

60% Graze Band
By now you'll almost never get a full hit on a target in cover, and even uncovered targets will be grazed more often than they're hit unless you're using an aim-stacked sharpshooter. On the other hand, it's also getting pretty hard to miss as well. Anything between 40% and 60% to hit is a guaranteed graze, a 10-20% shot has a 70-80% graze chance, and even shots well into the negatives will graze surprisingly often (a -40% shot will still have a 20% chance to graze).

120% Graze Band
Graze, graze, graze, graze, graze. A high-level aim-stacked sharpshooter shooting at a flanked target might score a real hit, and overwatch shots at a lightning-reflexes unit might miss, but that's about it. For everything else, it's all grazes, all the time.

WarChicken
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by WarChicken » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:52 pm

Thrair wrote:Grazing, timers & reinforcements
Those are both really great descriptions clarifying a lot. Thanks for those!

WarChicken
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by WarChicken » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:23 pm

infidel901 wrote:Very thorough explanation of the graze banding..but i can't say i understand it yet. Even the illustration isn't really doing it for me...but i get the general idea. However, not sure what would happen if i adjusted the slider.
Maybe I can explain, let me try...

So imagine your soldier is trying a shot at an ADVENT Trooper in medium cover. His Chances are:

Hit: 60%
Miss: 40% (not shown, but if you substract 60 from 100, it's what you get)

Lets ignore the Crit displayed for now, because it isn't calculated in yet - you'll see later how the crit mechanic works.

So you'd think you've got a 60% chance to hit and a 40% Chance to miss and thats it, but here is where the graze band applies by 10% on both hit and miss, so you'll get 20% graze squished in between. The actual chances then are:

Hit: 50% (60% minus 10% Graze Band)
Graze: 20% (Two times the Graze Band, once taken from hit and one taken from miss)
Miss: 30% (40% minus 10% Graze Band)

That's it. If you lower the Graze Band to 5%, the percentage changes and only 5% are taken from both hit and miss, making it:
Hit: 55%, Graze: 10% and Miss: 35%

Now we still havent covered dodge and crit. Those are both calculated seperately. Lets say your Soldier has a 20% Crit chance and the ADVENT Trooper has a 10% dodge chance.

Lets start with the Crit. A sucessful Crit roll "upgrades" your shot.
So if the Crit-Roll was successful and... you missed, its a graze now, if you grazed, it's a regular hit and finally if you scored a regular hit, you get a crit.

Exactly the same but in the opposite direction happens if the Dodge-Roll of the ADVENT Trooper succeeds:
If you landed a crit, you now only get a regular hit. If you hit, you'll only get a graze and if you grazed or missed you get nothing.

If both Crit-Roll and Dodge-Roll were successful they outweigh each other and no change is applied to the Hit-Roll.

Example1:
Hit-Roll is a graze, Crit-Roll is successful and Dodge-Roll failed - Since the graze is upgraded due to the successful Crit-Roll, you get a regular hit.

Example2: Hit-Roll is a miss, Crit-Roll is successful and Dodge-Roll failed - Your miss is upgraded to a graze due to successful Crit-Roll.

Example3: Hit-Roll is a hit, Crit-Roll is successful and Dodge-Roll also succeeded - A regular hit, because the successful Crit and Dodge outweih each other.

Example4: Hit-Roll is a hit, Crit-Roll is successful and Dodge-Roll fails - Your hit is upgraded to a Crit due to the successful Crit-Roll.

I hope I was able to explain it in an understandable way.

Psieye
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Psieye » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:39 am

infidel901 wrote:Any way to tone down the reinforcement thing?
Avoid missions in high Str regions.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd

infidel901
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:30 am

in the .ini

Is there anyway in the .ini to change the timing between reinforcements?

infidel901
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:47 am

Updating original post. Strike-through means someone has answered the question satisfactorily in this thread.

Psieye
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Psieye » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:35 am

infidel901 wrote: 1) red fog not affecting alien aim to the extent i thought it would.

4)Soldiers seem to be panicking even though they have not been injured. In otherwords they got hit for 1 point, and it doesn't get through the ablative armor. Is this a feature or a bug?

7) So, okay the timers. The timers seem to have been lengthened somewhat from when i last played (v1.2), but the reinforcement schedule makes the timer length a lie. Any way to tone down the reinforcement thing?

8) Are aliens better and tracking sound now?

9) If indeed aliens track sounds ..like smashing glass...

10) Spikey difficulty.
Every mission i have been given that allows me to counter a DE, i take it, and have won them all, but the DE's are rapidly accumulating nonetheless.
1) Red fog got nerfed.

4) Feature. Get used to Rookies panicking.

7) Get used to it, or ask how to lower the mission timers so it ends before those reinforcements ramp up.

8) They always tracked sounds.

9) Shooting a gun or using a frag is way more noticeable than smashing glass. Adapt to it: after finishing one pod, assume nearby pods WILL be on orange-alert and play accordingly.

10) Force level increases every few weeks, meaning better alien species etc. Assume Tactical DEs (which last forever) just happen over time, some of them just can't be stopped. They only affect some of the aliens. Strategic DEs (which last a few weeks) should be stopped every time, learn where they spawn and shut them down.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd

Steve-O
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Steve-O » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:55 pm

infidel901 wrote: 4)Soldiers seem to be panicking even though they have not been injured. In otherwords they got hit for 1 point, and it doesn't get through the ablative armor. Is this a feature or a bug?
It's a feature! Even if the armor stopped it, I would imagine taking a plasma bolt to the chest would be pretty scary. Especially for inexperienced rookies, who may not even realize they're ok for a couple seconds.
infidel901 wrote: 8) Are aliens better and tracking sound now? I have been experiencing every alien on the map come running at me, in multiple missions, after a fight starts. I mean i know this is a signature move, but ...they seem a little too good at it.
I do recall a change somewhere around 1.3/1.4 I believe, that made aliens react to sounds like grenades exploding as if they came from the space where the grenade exploded (previously they always reacted as if the noise came from the space where the soldier who threw it was.) I'm not aware of any great change in HOW they react, though, only WHERE they think the noise came from is more accurate.

The reason you probably feel like you're being swarmed more, if you're used to 1.2 mechanics, is due to the pod size changes made in 1.3 to counter OP stealth tactics. There are now more pods of fewer aliens apiece scattered around the map, which makes stealthing to the objective without being seen much harder. Not impossible - it can still be done if you want to and if you build for it - but on MOST missions it's generally not worth it, IME. Whereas in 1.2 I would routinely stealth all the way to the objective, pop it and then run for the evac, in 1.4 I learned to engage the first (or sometimes second) pod I found and then shoot my way through the rest of the mission. The gameplay is now much closer to XCOM1, and I think that's the way it should be, honestly. XCOM is not a stealth game.
infidel901 wrote: 9) If indeed aliens track sounds ..like smashing glass...then the independent movement of the specialist gremlins is an issue. On maps where we start revealed, gremlins can go crashing through windows with abandon, even though the specialist was careful to not make any commotion.
Based on personal experience, the aliens will NOT react to the sound of glass breaking if it was a gremlin (or BIT) that broke it. Basically the independent movement of such "familiars" has never been considered when the concealment mechanics are crunching numbers. I've even managed to use that to my advantage once or twice. Move specialist around a corner -- gremlin breaks some glass cutting through building -- my other soldiers can now move through the open window without breaking concealment.
infidel901 wrote: 10) Every mission i have been given that allows me to counter a DE, i take it, and have won them all, but the DE's are rapidly accumulating nonetheless.
You only get a shot at countering a DE if you're running missions in the zone where the facility that's researching that DE is located (and also, you've got enough people on the Intel job to find the mission in question, as usual.) You don't need to have located the facility itself. Perhaps the aliens have facilities in zones you haven't contacted yet? Or ones you're not actively gathering intel in, so no missions are found?
infidel901 wrote: 11) A suggestion for any of you modders out there: make a meta-mod that provides a GUI for all the adjustable .ini files, with full translations of what they do, exactly. Make sliders or something, that allow us to fine-tune every tunable element. Please?
This isn't so much a "mod" as it is "a whole new program that reads these script files and explains what they do." Seems like a lot of work for relatively little benefit -- it isn't really that hard to read the raw script files yourself. Seriously, spend a little time reading them over and things will begin to make sense. From there you can google for the meaning of specific things if you need to.

Plus then it would have to be maintained, and you'd need versions of this program for Long War 2, for vanilla, and for any other combination of mods that alter or add to these script files. And that's not even getting into what happens if two mods use the same variable name for different things (and the mod authors just write it off as "my mod is not compatible with his.")

faket15
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by faket15 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:03 pm

Steve-O wrote:
infidel901 wrote: 10) Every mission i have been given that allows me to counter a DE, i take it, and have won them all, but the DE's are rapidly accumulating nonetheless.
You only get a shot at countering a DE if you're running missions in the zone where the facility that's researching that DE is located (and also, you've got enough people on the Intel job to find the mission in question, as usual.) You don't need to have located the facility itself. Perhaps the aliens have facilities in zones you haven't contacted yet? Or ones you're not actively gathering intel in, so no missions are found?
Not true. Dark Events can't even spawn in regions with facilities. The only way to have a facility and a DE in the same region is if the DE spawns while the facility is being built.

Psieye
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Psieye » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:15 pm

In fact, facilties don't research DEs. When a DE is impending, it'll be associated with a spawned mission that belongs to a specific region. If you detect said mission with rebels on Intel job, then you get the chance to prevent the DE from coming into effect.
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gimrah
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by gimrah » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:55 pm

To your comments on rnfs and timers, bear with it. It just requires different tactics.

Generally it means keeping on the move, not OW creeping.

In particular, you need to recognise the differences between GOp types. There are a couple of mission types where you have to rescue people and then get them somewhere else. On the big maps time is the major constraint for those. So you want a highly mobile squad, which can cover a retreat - so ever vigilant OW soldiers and rapid deployment grenadiers are great; shooty rangers and non-snapshot sharpshooters are bad. Regular extractions you only have to get across the map once so you have a bit more time: rangers and sharps can be better on those. Hacks and relays generally require you to get somewhere fast, toss the evac and then have a few turns holding position and fighting - but losing concealment too early is very bad. Smash and Grab usually turn into a brawl against a couple of pods at once, sometimes outside but sometimes inside the compound, so you need a brawler squad that can fight in the open or at close quarters.

Phaseless
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Phaseless » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:02 am

Gotta say, timers are alright in LW2. Most unforgiving IMO are those vip rescue timers where you see 24 turns remaining but doom reinforcements start dropping at about 12, 14 turns remaining. One every two rounds. That is hell, especially when you first find out about this.

And I agree with poster above me. You gotta consider what type of Mission it is and which guys you Need. I often bring several assaults and shinobis for Smash and grab, otherwise mobile troops, definitely Grenadier or tech for quick disposal and usually a sniper because most often he can hang back near the evac Point and shooty shooty all se bad People mom told me about. I also like a gunner on Smash and grab so I can suppress some of those boogies who I can't outright kill, which is important since you Need to move fast and might get swamped.

VIP rescue stuff, I prefer a big Team and spending Intel on over Infiltration or at least 100% Infiltration. I try to spread out a bit, sight all the pods and then create a plan how to proceed. If I know I have to engage, I have to decide if I move fast and just engage the guarding pod, (which is seldom the case since evac Point is guarded by another pod) or if I engage the pod that could have flanked me first so I have all the remaining enemies coming from one direction. That is a big Bonus because I can dig in my rangers/gunners and know I can safely flank. Scouting is key for those missions.

Jailbreak usually works fine for me by sneaking into the Building itself (which is surprisingly easy and almost always works) and then making a break for the evac. Sometimes I get out without getting sighted, if not I try to take out enemies with brute force (nades, Flames, potshots) since I'd rather not flank + activate and use the high cover in the Building to my Advantage.

Relays are Born to be sniped. Nuff said. Snipers with enough Support (gunners, techs) so Keep pods at bay.

Psieye
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Psieye » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:27 pm

The location of the fixed evac affects tactics as well. In some Jailbreaks, the evac is on the other side of the jail. In others, it's very close to your starting location.
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Phaseless
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Phaseless » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:59 pm

Psieye wrote:The location of the fixed evac affects tactics as well. In some Jailbreaks, the evac is on the other side of the jail. In others, it's very close to your starting location.
Right. That can be a problem if you planned to use a stationary sniper since he will never have a quiet spot to nest on.

Psieye
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Psieye » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:26 pm

Phaseless wrote:
Psieye wrote:The location of the fixed evac affects tactics as well. In some Jailbreaks, the evac is on the other side of the jail. In others, it's very close to your starting location.
Right. That can be a problem if you planned to use a stationary sniper since he will never have a quiet spot to nest on.
I'm an insane guy who is happy to bring a sniper even if the fixed evac is on the other side of the map. There's always a way. Secret: they don't need a nest to do their job.
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Phaseless
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Phaseless » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:17 pm

A stationary sniper will underperform in a mobile mission even if you make it work. He'll lose the DFA bonus, he'll not use his stock because he needs to keep up and so on. Snapshot or holo snipers are a whole different story. I don't even regard them snipers, they rather take the scout role from LW 1.

I think it's great btw that every class has 3 upgrade paths which allow for so many diverse builds and compositions.

Psieye
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by Psieye » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:47 pm

Phaseless wrote:A stationary sniper will underperform in a mobile mission even if you make it work. He'll lose the DFA bonus, he'll not use his stock because he needs to keep up and so on. Snapshot or holo snipers are a whole different story. I don't even regard them snipers, they rather take the scout role from LW 1.
An underperforming DfA sniper will still bring more value than any other class for the specific circumstances I'm thinking of. Incidentally, thinking holo or snapshot sharpshooters are not snipers is already a sign you don't abuse squadsight. I will happily have a 'snapshot' sniper stand still for 5 turns when the evac is on the other side of the map.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
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2nd
3rd

infidel901
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Re: 1.5 playthrough questions and observations

Post by infidel901 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:39 am

Pretty sure there are many threads dedicated to sniper builds, guys.

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