Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

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Noober
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:47 am

Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:45 am

Hello everyone!

So I was lucky and get it both almost at the same time. And of couse there was absolutely no way to counter it, as usual.

First rnf is at turn 5 and the second wave - 2-3 turns after. That makes jail/rescue mission almost impossible until you boost it to EL and bring like 7 man squad and still you could be completely eaten by map/evac generation.

Tons of drone + ayys like sergeants with enormous visial range (even civs under Vigilance DE has 3 tiles range) make the other timed missions (like relay and hack - to the lesser extend) extremely difficult as you most likely loose your concealment long before getting LOS of the object.

Does anyone tested this combination it in 1.3+?

Path 1.3+ is basicaly RapidResponse by itself - no reason to double it with this DE. Please remove RR form DE list!

Phaseless
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:13 am

Am I understanding this right, you're using an old Version of LW and expect the devs to Change this old Version to your liking?
IMO either bear with it or start a new game with 1,5. Can't have both.

Noober
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:18 am

It is a fresh new campaigh right after 1.5.
I even had to abandon my last 1.4 campaign right before last Network and Waterworld because of auto-update :-(

Phaseless
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:22 am

Noober wrote:It is a fresh new campaigh right after 1.5.
I even had to abandon my last 1.4 campaign right before last Network and Waterworld because of auto-update :-(
I don't understand, what did you mean by 1.3+ then in your original post?
Oh wait. I guess the Change you're complaining about has been introduced in 1.4 and upwards?

Noober
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:30 am

I mean that 1.3 changes the game quite dramatically - the rnf start to show BEFORE the timer is expired even if concealed.
In 1.1-1.2 rnf doesn't drop until timer is expired or some scripted things (like 3 turns before the timer on hack/relay missions or the next turn after activation of the VIP).

Phaseless
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:42 am

Noober wrote:I mean that 1.3 changes the game quite dramatically - the rnf start to show BEFORE the timer is expired even if concealed.
In 1.1-1.2 rnf doesn't drop until timer is expired or some scripted things (like 3 turns before the timer on hack/relay missions or the next turn after activation of the VIP).
Oh yeah I know what you mean. I Play on the difficulty above rookie so it's manageable for me. I guess you Play on higher difficulty?

Noober
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:59 am

Legend

Phaseless
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:08 am

Noober wrote:Legend
You're playing premium league then and ask for Trouble :D

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8wayz
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by 8wayz » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:13 am

What I find amusing is that his nickname of choice is Noober but he plays on Legend.

I tip my hat to you good sir. :)

Phaseless
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:14 am

8wayz wrote:What I find amusing is that his nickname of choice is Noober but he plays on Legend.

I tip my hat to you good sir. :)
Nobody other than a pro will call themselves a noob :D
Seen it several times.

Steve-O
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Steve-O » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:11 pm

Phaseless wrote:Nobody other than a pro will call themselves a noob :D
Seen it several times.
I've also seen plenty of actual noobs who insist on playing Long War at the highest difficulty because that's how they played vanilla.
Completely disregarding any friendly advice that Long War on Rookie >> Vanilla Legend, and then complaining that Long War is "too hard."

If you're finding Legend too difficult, step it down a notch and try again. There's no shame in playing the game on easier difficulty levels until you're ready to move up. In fact, I find that doing this increases my overall enjoyment of the game AND preserves my precious hair follicles. Each new campaign that's a new step up in difficulty, I learn to appreciate new tactics and new equipment that I was able to get by without on easier modes.

Noober
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:26 pm

Steve-O wrote: If you're finding Legend too difficult, step it down a notch and try again.
No thanks. I'm pretty comfortable with what I have and this is not my the frist campaign so I think I know how to handle most of this.
I had those DE previously and even rolled RR in april once and survive - but not both of it simultaniosly.
I was still ablle to do a relay under those DE with 5 mans vs VL in4 str region (4 days anti retal Relay) + f..n turret in the middle of the map but that was extremely difficult and almost cost me the best 50 dodge shinoby critted by turret from squadsiight.
Now I think I should better let it go and fight retaliation as it's easier.
Any of those DE is controllable but with both it' become very luck dependand.
I see no one will do anything about this - well after fire grenade nerf it's not surprising at all.

LordYanaek
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by LordYanaek » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:43 pm

I've never got those 2 combined but i think my approach would be similar to how i handled some tough periods in my last campaign due to slow research (caused by a lack of scientists, entirely my fault for trusting the RNG to give me scientists as rewards). Lay low for some time and be extra careful on your missions selection. Avoid non-essential missions unless you can over-infiltrate them and try to complete some non time-limited missions, especially those without RNFs such as an HQ assault if you have any. Maybe try to grow some havens if you think you won't be able to detect missions fast enough to over-infiltrate in those regions.

Hopefully they didn't start at the same time and you won't have to wait for both to expire but only the first. Would be nice if the active DE list showed how long they will last.

Doing this will obviously slow you down but unless your campaign was already is a bad shape, you should be able to recover. I played on Commander so recovering was easier for me but from what i've seen in some xwynns streams, it's possible to overcome obstacles even on Legend.

Noober
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Going slowly through this.
No more jailbreak/rescue this month - my last capture dark VIP even after jammer would cost me a mission/tons of wounds if the last rnf wave spawn upon me but I was lucky and it spawned almost at the edge of LoS.
Officer with jammer is a must and luckily I have 3 of them.
Relay and hacks are doable but very difficult - almost at an edge.

Phaseless
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:19 pm

I prefer jammer anyway because I have the Feeling you almost get nothing from whatever that other perk is called.
In a Mission, I want Tools to make it easier, not an almost redundant xp boost

Dwarfling
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Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Dwarfling » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:12 pm

So many irrelevant posts.

Anyways, I think both of them only last 2 weeks, and Rapid Response is the big one. Since the stealth nerf I don't mind Vigilance, it just means you're gonna want to ditch conceal hijinks and activate with Grenadiers instead of Technicals and you gotta give Shinobis extra girth when scouting. I'm more concerned with Alien Infiltrator and RR, because Infiltrator lasts quite a while, and the faceless slow you down.

Rapid Response I counter by beelining towards the pods and going ham on the consumables and cooldowns to reduce the enemy count as much as possible before the first RNF happens. Might mean you'll gas out for the last pod, but at least you'll be fighting less stuff on the ground. You'll probably activate 2 pods at some point, but that's not end-of-mission if you brought good CC and have assaults or sawn-offs to thin the herd. Slow soldiers like Sharpshooters and Overwatchers are probably best left for other missions where RNF isn't active from the start.

I'd avoid the prison breaks during Rapid Response, those 24 turn maps with evacs on opposite ends are extra hard even without RR. And think really hard if you can afford to risk the troops for a engineer/scientist. Letting some missions go isn't gonna lose you a campaign, but losing important soldiers will.

I take it one of your missions just went to hell and you came here to vent? I like to bronzeman out of those missteps and re-roll the mission by re-loading to geoscape, but my guess is you Ironman'd and now gotta live with the mistakes. :?

Phaseless
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Phaseless » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:25 pm

Dwarfling wrote: So many irrelevant posts.
Excuse me for having a dialogue with the OP, officer. Please point your gun somewhere else, thanks.

Noober
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:47 am

Re: Rapid Response + Vigilance = are you serious?!

Post by Noober » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:51 pm

No more post - I promise.

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