How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

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spancakranio
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 5:31 pm

How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by spancakranio »

Hello!
After Wotc, I'll start a new campaign in LW2 - Legend.

How do you plan / follow your campaigns?
Do you use some sort of planner to organize the information / priorities?
What is the priority line of buildings?
And techs?
What is the best tactic to control Advent Strenght?

I ask these questions because I usually get lost in the middle of the campaigns.

TY Guys!
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Dwarfling »

That'd be like a guide-lenght if I were to elaborate so I'll stick to my base plan.

How do you plan...?: In Legendary my priority is expansion and to stay on top of weapon tech. So I try to boost very few select missions and I buy scientists to keep up with research. Priority being the weapon techs first so that I can use my weapon-based soldiers and armor inbetween to keep the low-hp people alive.

What is the priority line of buildings?: GTS to churn out 2 Shinobis ASAP, then I buy a scientist. Then I ponder between buying another scientist if rescues have not happened or going AWC. Proving Ground is very cheap so I try to get it as soon as I can get Officer autopsy done for Incendiaries and Alloy Plating.

And techs?:

R.Comms (to get 2nd region ASAP)
M.Weapons (to use the loot I get)
Basic Research (acts like an extra scientist, pays off quick)
Alien Biotech (can be held off if enough elerium/alloy have been collected)
H.Materials > Laser > Adv.Laser (to get Rangers and Sharpshooters online)
Combat Armor (to protect low hp soldiers)
Soldier A. > Officer A. (to get Proving Grounds and Incendiaries)
Battle Armour (EXO helps the non-OW specialists to be more useful and technicals... And SPARKs)
Magnetic Weapons...

What is the best tactic to control Advent Strenght?

I don't, I just try to keep expanding into new regions, liberate a single region so that ADVENT has room to spread its strenght and whenever strenght goes to 6+, switch the region to supply and do Intel somewhere else. Don't be afraid to keep Intel on 4-5 strenght regions, besides the Troop Columns, you can still detect doable very light GOps. I think hiding is a losing strategy unless you're incredibly tight on regions, which I try my best not to be.
spancakranio
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by spancakranio »

Ty for u help bro!
Icarus
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Icarus »

I agree to Dwarfling on almost everything, but a few details (playing on Commander):

1. I advertise mag rush - if you can deal with 2 weeks more on ballistics, you can get a head start on both research (skipping the laser techs until later), firepower (earlier mag and incendiaries) and resources (not having to buy first lasers, then mag shortly after) that's quite comfortable. Disn't test this on legend, though.

2. GTS first also lets you get your officers sooner, which I find quite helpful. If you play with Commander's Choice mod, you could skip GTS for a moment, though.

I would be seriously interested in organizing strategies as well, though.
Psieye
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Psieye »

For organising, do it the old fashioned way: write things down. LW2 doesn't spoonfeed you on in-depth mechanics, you should similarly not expect it to do your bookkeeping for you either.
Icarus wrote: 1. I advertise mag rush - if you can deal with 2 weeks more on ballistics, you can get a head start on both research (skipping the laser techs until later), firepower (earlier mag and incendiaries) and resources (not having to buy first lasers, then mag shortly after) that's quite comfortable. Disn't test this on legend, though.
In 1.4 when Flechette came from Faceless I would have advocated for Laser first in Commander assuming you rely on snipers. Laser Lance + Center Mass + Flechette = guaranteed kill on Sectoids and Vipers by snipers if they don't graze. As I understand, 1.5 swapped Flechette for Needle but I believe Laser first still lets you farm harder (read: underinfiltrate) and thus, make more income than playing conservatively while waiting for Mag. Laser doesn't cost in supplies, letting you get a building or a scientist earlier. Now, if your doctrine puts rangers, grenadiers and OW specs over assaults, snipers and gunners, then there'd be value in a Mag+Incendiary+EXO rush.

Commander's Choice doesn't mean putting off GTS, at least not for long - you still want it up by the time you get your first Sgt for Vulture + Wet Work. Trial by Fire rush is also big.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by gimrah »

Icarus wrote:I agree to Dwarfling on almost everything, but a few details (playing on Commander):

1. I advertise mag rush - if you can deal with 2 weeks more on ballistics, you can get a head start on both research (skipping the laser techs until later), firepower (earlier mag and incendiaries) and resources (not having to buy first lasers, then mag shortly after) that's quite comfortable. Disn't test this on legend, though.

2. GTS first also lets you get your officers sooner, which I find quite helpful. If you play with Commander's Choice mod, you could skip GTS for a moment, though.

I would be seriously interested in organizing strategies as well, though.
I've had good success with this on Commander. There's a good guide on reddit. Search 'skip lasers'.

You do need to really commit to it, spending all your resources on scientists and don't forget you'll also need several engineers to build the weapons. Also do a basic research as one of your first research projects. But don't worry about it: that's actually a strong start for the long term anyway.

The tactical game will get a bit tricky in late April when you get vipers and MECs. Vipers aren't too much of a problem provided you stay well stocked with flashbangs - just don't let them use abilities. MECs are toughand need to be treated with respect with ballistics - I like to have 1 AP ammo user on each squad by the time they show up. My other recommendation is that everyone should have a proper weapon: a lot of people just put SMGs on grenadiers, hack specialists and technicals, but ballistic SMGs do almost nothing even with a flank (also drones) so I prefer shotguns or maybe rifles.

Once you get mag rifles you will seriously dominate advent for quite a while and you can start to snowball. Again, remember rifles can go on any soldier with decent aim, not just rangers.

Next campaign I'm going to try a psi rush. I tried and failed horribly in 1.2 but it's changed a lot. I still think it will be suboptimal but only 1 way to find out...
Icarus
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Icarus »

Psieye wrote:For organising, do it the old fashioned way: write things down. LW2 doesn't spoonfeed you on in-depth mechanics, you should similarly not expect it to do your bookkeeping for you either.
I don't. I was asking for strategies, for how to write it down, alternatively for tools like prepared excel sheets or templates, not for LW2 to do it for me.
Psieye wrote:but I believe Laser first still lets you farm harder (read: underinfiltrate) and thus, make more income than playing conservatively while waiting for Mag. Laser doesn't cost in supplies, letting you get a building or a scientist earlier.
I see this quite the other way around: lasers first might let you farm harder during the 1-2 weeks that you have lasers earlier than I have mags, but mags let me farm harder the weeks that I have mags before you have mags. Also, you need to spend for lasers earlier than I have to for mags, so I'll be the one with the earlier scientist. And your earlier farming and resource advantage will get mitigated in the longer run by paying for lasers and mags later on.
Psieye wrote:Commander's Choice doesn't mean putting off GTS, at least not for long - you still want it up by the time you get your first Sgt for Vulture + Wet Work.
Yes, it's only for a moment, maybe make GTS your second building instead of your first - really no huge difference.
Last edited by Icarus on Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Icarus
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Icarus »

gimrah wrote:Next campaign I'm going to try a psi rush. I tried and failed horribly in 1.2 but it's changed a lot. I still think it will be suboptimal but only 1 way to find out...
Tried a hybrid approach, slotting Psi in where I usually do first basic research. But between the power requirements (need Resistance Comms and GTS as well) and other pressures, it didn't work out on my first try. But maybe was my fault somewhere.
Psieye
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Psieye »

Icarus wrote:
Psieye wrote:For organising, do it the old fashioned way: write things down. LW2 doesn't spoonfeed you on in-depth mechanics, you should similarly not expect it to do your bookkeeping for you either.
I don't. I was asking for strategies, for how to write it down, alternatively for tools like prepared excel sheets or templates, not for LW2 to do it for me.
Ah, I had misunderstood your question - my apologies. There are 2 things I consider important to do extra bookkeeping on: the presence of Faceless and a diary of GOp/Lib/counter-DE missions as they get detected. The former can be mitigated if you slightly cheat with the mod that highlights exactly which rebel is a Faceless. The latter... even if you use the mod that shows vigilance, it's still not going to tell you what the GOps are up to.

Once you have 3 non-liberated regions, it helps keeping track of what GOps might show in each region. Especially if you also have an AWC that wants to hold onto your good soldiers for 4+ days at a time. It takes a load off your mind to say "I can confidently rule out a S&G being detected in the next 5 days, let's send my shinobi/sniper into the AWC tube". Or when you have so many regions contacted, having a detected-missions timeline lets you go "I'll flip this region to intel at the earliest time Lib 1 can respawn for the 2nd time after this current one expires". PoIs are also easier to make judgements for with a diary: they'll expire if you don't scan. Assuming they last 7 days, you can gauge the opportunity cost of scanning it now vs 5 days later - maybe you need to help scan intel in a new region (or lose out on 9+ days of doable missions from there) before the PoI.

One thing I've noticed is that once vigilance and Str get high in a hot region, S&Gs tend to gravitate there. Each day, that hot region will ask "what GOps can I spawn?" and the only answer will be S&G. There can only be 2 S&G in the world so as soon as the S&G cooldown wears off in the hot region, it gets respawned - the other regions which could have spawned a S&G likely already have 2 GOps already spawned. I suppose if you wanted to min/max hard, you could intentionally choose which day you clear GOps (doesn't mean winning them, instant-evac still removes the mission) in low Str regions to make sure S&G spawn there instead of in hot regions. But I don't think you need to be that extreme with planning. Just having a detected-missions diary lets you pick up where you were if you suddenly have to pause your campaign for a week or more. If nothing else, being able to swing regions to full-retal during "off-times" and knowing when you can afford to scan PoI is very helpful.
Icarus wrote:
Psieye wrote:but I believe Laser first still lets you farm harder (read: underinfiltrate) and thus, make more income than playing conservatively while waiting for Mag. Laser doesn't cost in supplies, letting you get a building or a scientist earlier.
I see this quite the other way around: lasers first might let you farm harder during the 1-2 weeks that you have lasers earlier than I have mags, but mags let me farm harder the weeks that I have mags before you have mags. Also, you need to spend for lasers earlier than I have to for mags, so I'll be the one with the earlier scientist. And your earlier farming and resource advantage will get mitigated in the longer run by paying for lasers and mags later on.
Hmm yes, without trying this out on a dedicated Mag rush campaign, I can't compare how the two approaches would work for my playstyle. The key question for me being "can I get a MSGT in June if I go Mag first?"
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
spancakranio
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by spancakranio »

Thank you so much guys!
Your tips have been very helpful!

Besides the tips could you share the spreadsheet / annotation template they use for parallel campaign control?
Swiftless
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Swiftless »

I'm definitely no expert but I did something different this campaign that has made a huge difference. I built a laboratory before either the AWC or GTS; then went GTS->AWC. Prior to and while waiting to build the lab I did several rounds of basic research to start off with too. It put me at a slight lag at first but boy once I started weapons research it fast tracked it and put me so far in front of the Advent response curve it was pretty amazing.

Don't know if I got lucky with that move but I thought I'd post it up because I think it worked better than the usual convention of either building a GTS or AWC first. I've never been super successful with getting off to a good start with either of those as first build options; which is why I switched up tactics this time around.
Psieye
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Psieye »

Hmm... Lab first. This certainly has potential. I hesitated from trying it out as I really like the AWC perks to individualise soldiers - I've always gone AWC first. The Lab's power requirements with each extra station also makes me want to always build it on a power coil. I question stacking multiple Basic Research while waiting though - wouldn't an EXO-rush be a good compliment to a Lab-first build? T2 swords from Lancer corpses would also be a strong boost to compensate for late officers/extra loot.
My three 8-man GOp squad Commander campaigns:
1st
2nd
3rd
Swiftless
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Swiftless »

I'm not a fan of EXO's just because of aesthetics but the Early Basic Research lets you get past research requirements if you happen to have some issues with getting scientists. YMMV though, like I said. I'd like to try the Lab again on a different campaign to see if it's a sound strat and not just a fluke.

I was concerned about the power requirements but it worked out OK. I think I might have had to build the power station before the GTS but it's been months so I'd have to go back to my saves to review the exact progression. I think I also got lucky with Avenger Power intel Packages.
Dwarfling
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Dwarfling »

Should be obvious that if you play on a lower difficulty and use mods to make the game easier (or convenient, if you want to call Commander's Choice that) you go about your early game in a different way. I wouldn't go around suggesting a playstyle that I haven't checked myself for the conditions another player is asking.

Going GTS+Laser is about the safest way you can play your Legendary early game. It guarantees that you'll have Shinobis for every mission, thus giving you a tool against yellow alert and accidental activations (most common cause of wounds and deaths) and having Laser weapons gives you a base for your weapon based soldiers (Sharpshooter, Ranger, Assault, Gunner) to work with. Laser will suffice up until you start facing T2 Robotics and Aliens and T3 ADVENT, by which time you'll have Mags and ammo and will be on your way to Coil. You're playing catch up with weapon tech, but you pull ahead with a healthy, experienced roster and Proving Grounds' items. It's pretty much proven to work.

The rush strategies leave you vulnerable to catastrophic mission failure during times when you're the most vulnerable. Should something go slightly wrong on a mission during this timeframe and you'll likely be taking casualties and losing objectives. You might have not yet invested a lot in those soldiers, but if if you lose them you're banking on your rush goal to pull you out of that pit. If you're ok with taking those kind of risks, go for it.

I decided I'd test the Mag Rush in a base LW2 Legendary campaign I had going (expansions unticked). This is a campaign that has gone remarkably well in terms of supply rewards mind you. The rescues have been all engineers (3), and I have bought 3 scientists. I got Basic Research done. It's April 25th, I just completed all the prerequisites for Magnetic Weapons and it's gonna take me 19 days to get it done. I'm already meeting triple snake pods and MECs, so I'm not pleased with the results. I'm about to rescue a scientist, but I bet I'll be meeting T2 ADVENT by the time I can give my Sharpshooters a weapon. In stark contrast it takes 7 days for Laser, and I wouldn't have to go for Trooper+Officer autopsy, so I'd at least have the laser rifles by now.
Jacke
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Jacke »

As well, if you go for Mag rush, your rebels on Rendezvous missions won't get Laser Weapons, as they normally would after Mag weapons are unlocked. Rebels never get the leading edge weapons but will only get weapons that were researched by XCOM.
Icarus
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Icarus »

@Psieye:

Ah, sorry, didn't mean to be blunt. No apologies necessary.

I find counting available missions per region too much hassle for me - one reason why I keep playing Commander instead of trying my hand on Legendary. That said, I really should do some of the stuff, like keeping track of liberation missions at least.

I tend to manage my barracks in a more rudimentary way - comparing how much missions pop up to how wide my barracks is, and adjust if in imbalance.

@Swiftless:

Interesting idea, though it's kinda weirding me out - without Commander's Choice, I really want to decide the classes of my rookies as soon as possible.

@Dwarfling:

Thanks for checking Legendary viability of mag rush. I would be interested if another player can second that experience before I write off the idea for Legendary. I especially don't count getting engineers only as a brilliant start - I'd start over in that case even. Never had Mags take more than 14 days (on Commander, mind you).

But yes, triple snakes with ballistics sounds decidedly unfun. Did you manage to get the Proving Grounds up already? Might as well put the sooner Officer Autopsy to work via Incendiary.

@Jacke:

Read on a Reddit that this requirement was taken out with 1.5, but found nothing in the patch notes about this. Nonetheless, I wouldn't consider this factor really important.
galith
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by galith »

I can send you and anyone else who is interested a copy of the spreadseet i use to track the strategic layer of my campaigns. Most of it focuses on tracking mission and strength history + vigilence best guesses (because thay's useful) and what awc training options each of my soilders has and what missions they get deployed to (useful for planning tube time and when soilders will be ready, but not actually that useful). Just send me a private message with your email and i'll send it to you.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

I do not plan.
I work with whatever RND gives me.
Then I read scripts to actually understood what should I do or I did.
Then I have long look at my screen trying to make new move then I restart whole thing.

My conclusion is rush everything to grab something. Manual do not explain half of stuff and still best way to play this game is rush everything. 30% inf is good to go with 8 man squad, solo missions are ultimate goal (saves time) after few weeks or that you are powerhouse on any difficulty. Then restart game to do even more foolish things.

I even forgot to research once (whole month) and I was fine
The Preacher
Dwarfling
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by Dwarfling »

^

Don't follow that guy's advice is my advice.
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SonnyWiFiHr
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Re: How do you plan/follow your new campaigns?

Post by SonnyWiFiHr »

Don't follow my advice. I like to that
It is risky but you will have twice as much sci/eng/soldiers/rookies/intel/supply/rebels. In first month when it matters. Then you can research fast and build/recruit fast.

Edit. On Veteran/commander does not pay off. There is gap between missions when LIB 3 is spawned. There is no mission until LIB 3 expire or it is finished.
The Preacher
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