Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Antigonos
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Antigonos » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:56 pm

Thanks for your hard work Pavonis. For me, LW2 is kind of a perfect blend between two of my favorite genres: rogue-like and tactical. I'll be sure to follow your next project and wish you good luck in your endeavors.

Zaramnor
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Zaramnor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:21 pm

Would Kickstarter or something like that be an option, to get you back on Long War of the Chosen?

Dwarfling
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Dwarfling » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:07 pm

XCOM2 ain't PI's property, they can't benefit from work done on it unless the money comes from Firaxis. If anything you can support their next project, Terra Invicta. Sadly that one won't have a squad based tactical layer, so if you're into that maybe you can look forward to Phoenix Point.

Zaramnor
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Zaramnor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:10 pm

It wouldn't be for the mod itself, it would be a kickstarter for the work and time, they can spend into a mod for "a game"

WarChicken
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by WarChicken » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:11 pm

Of course this is sad news for us players that hoped for a Long War of the Chosen, but there are lots of gifted modders out there - your assets are free to use, so something like LW will hopefully come for WotC now that the news is out that you won't make it, hopefully.

But for you guys this is a big chance to dive into develloping TI.
I wish you all the best and I will look into TI, that's for sure.

Thank you, for what you did with XCOM2. Because of LW2 I played it a whole lot longer than I would have without.

Imca
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Imca » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:14 pm

johnnylump wrote: I don't know that we'll get around to working on the other standalones ourselves, though. I'll ask our guys to keep an eye on these forums and help out anyone trying to convert them.
So does that mean you still intend to make the standalone coil/laser/smg weapons for WOTC even if you don't the whole mod? That's really the bit I care most about, and would like to know if I should bother trying to figure out how to convert them myself or just wait.

Sorry.

JulianSkies
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by JulianSkies » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:16 am

Imca wrote:
johnnylump wrote: I don't know that we'll get around to working on the other standalones ourselves, though. I'll ask our guys to keep an eye on these forums and help out anyone trying to convert them.
So does that mean you still intend to make the standalone coil/laser/smg weapons for WOTC even if you don't the whole mod? That's really the bit I care most about, and would like to know if I should bother trying to figure out how to convert them myself or just wait.

Sorry.
Actually the opposite. He means to say he does not intend to make the standalones avaiable for WOTC and if you can feel free to, also support those trying to.

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johnnylump
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by johnnylump » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:02 pm

No, I have the weaponpack 95% done, just need to finish it. No plans to pick up any of the others.

miguelmonte
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by miguelmonte » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:22 am

well that is a true great shame... i've bought the first xcom and hadn't played until i heard of LW... played and it made it a better game than it could ever been... even better with the enemy within expansion... same feeling with the xcom2... i can't even begin to fathom playing it without LW2... no infiltration, no extra classes, no extra enemies, extra challenge, extra, extra, extra goodness overall...

Pavonis made my experience with xcom games... and you MADE it... like firaxis could never have... and now, suddenly, just dropped it, "like a sack of kaiju s**t?" what am i missing? "we're really good at doing this!! so... we'll be doing something else!" really? really really? this is frustration talking i agree... but... how does that bode on your starting company, on your next games and such? "we're tired of this project so we are leaving it stone cold as is and move on?" this is an unfinished product, without the added suport for the wotc expansion, imo. and you know it.

be as it may, i can only thank you for the countless hours spent, dashing and slashing, critting and being critted, frustrating over that 5% crit shot that killed my star MVP wondering what he could have become...

and now i'me left wondering and frustrating about: "what if? what if Pavonis actually released LWOTC?..." ;)

Phaseless
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Phaseless » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:03 am

miguelmonte wrote:well that is a true great shame... i've bought the first xcom and hadn't played until i heard of LW... played and it made it a better game than it could ever been... even better with the enemy within expansion... same feeling with the xcom2... i can't even begin to fathom playing it without LW2... no infiltration, no extra classes, no extra enemies, extra challenge, extra, extra, extra goodness overall...

Pavonis made my experience with xcom games... and you MADE it... like firaxis could never have... and now, suddenly, just dropped it, "like a sack of kaiju s**t?" what am i missing? "we're really good at doing this!! so... we'll be doing something else!" really? really really? this is frustration talking i agree... but... how does that bode on your starting company, on your next games and such? "we're tired of this project so we are leaving it stone cold as is and move on?" this is an unfinished product, without the added suport for the wotc expansion, imo. and you know it.

be as it may, i can only thank you for the countless hours spent, dashing and slashing, critting and being critted, frustrating over that 5% crit shot that killed my star MVP wondering what he could have become...

and now i'me left wondering and frustrating about: "what if? what if Pavonis actually released LWOTC?..." ;)
You have to set priorities in your life. That will sometimes mean giving up something meaningful for something even more meaningful.
Pavonis as a small Team have very limited resources. Without knowing what other reasons there might be for their decision as a result of the partnership with 2k, at the very least it's certain that work on WotC would drain resources from their very own Project.

It's quite understandable that a Team on it's way to it's first blood-of-my-blood Franchise wants to prioritise that over a fan Project that provides them a Little pocket Change.

Sidelong
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Sidelong » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:51 pm

Made an account so that I could briefly say thank you for making such a sick mod in Long War 2.

Will be on the lookout for your future projects -- good luck!

Tergenisis
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Tergenisis » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:31 am

That's unfortunate, though hopefully will give you more time to focus on your own projects. I hadn't thought 2K was as much a fit for the depth you all bring anyway since their strategy games are more mass market appeal and not as much depth. Have you tried talks with Paradox? They seem like a better fit as they do more grand strategy and depth over mass market appeal.

Razmoudah
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Razmoudah » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:44 pm

Wow, I hadn't even known that there was a Long War series mod for XCom Enemy Unknown/Within until coming to the Pavonis website. I'd just loved working with the Perk/SMG/Laser/Alien/Leader Packs and Toolbox. I'd had no clue that those were just the parts to a much bigger project, or that the project had been ran for the previous title. I'm re-installing Enemy Unknown right now, and as soon as I can get into the Steam Workshop to subscribe to the Long War mod, as well as looking for Commander's Choice (I'm sick of having 5 Snipers but can't get another soldier to promote into the correct class to get a second/third medic trained up) and Peek from Concealment. I'm sad to here that you guys aren't directly working on a War of the Chosen version of Long War 2 (which when I stopped playing XCom 2 before hadn't even released yet as far as I know, I'm actually holding of on War of the Chosen just to play with the Long war mods now), but I'm glad to see that you've officially released the assets so that others can work with the materials and create a War of the Chosen compatible version and I look forward to its completion.

dethraker
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by dethraker » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:17 am

This is very good news, for more than one reason. I am excited to hear that Pavonis is finally going to be able to dedicate more time and energy into their personal project and I still anxiously await their kickstarter so that I can support them in achieving their desired goal. On the other hand I feel like this is only good news for the modding community in XCom 2, many modders beat around the bush and played nice but it would slip occasionally that it was discouraging to have a mod group, Pavonis, with full support and open communication with the developers, up to and including, information about upcoming patches and releases where Pavonis were the only ones with that information.

Though I know I am one of the few that feel no more concern towards a financially supported mod group is a good thing I think in time others will see what I'm referring to. This is a good thing both for the Mod community in XCom 2 as well as Pavonis, great news indeed.

dethraker
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by dethraker » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:25 am

miguelmonte wrote:well that is a true great shame... i've bought the first xcom and hadn't played until i heard of LW... played and it made it a better game than it could ever been... even better with the enemy within expansion... same feeling with the xcom2... i can't even begin to fathom playing it without LW2... no infiltration, no extra classes, no extra enemies, extra challenge, extra, extra, extra goodness overall...

Pavonis made my experience with xcom games... and you MADE it... like firaxis could never have... and now, suddenly, just dropped it, "like a sack of kaiju s**t?" what am i missing? "we're really good at doing this!! so... we'll be doing something else!" really? really really? this is frustration talking i agree... but... how does that bode on your starting company, on your next games and such? "we're tired of this project so we are leaving it stone cold as is and move on?" this is an unfinished product, without the added suport for the wotc expansion, imo. and you know it.

be as it may, i can only thank you for the countless hours spent, dashing and slashing, critting and being critted, frustrating over that 5% crit shot that killed my star MVP wondering what he could have become...

and now i'me left wondering and frustrating about: "what if? what if Pavonis actually released LWOTC?..." ;)
Long War 2 is finished, it is a completely different experience than WotC(also XCom 2) and the two could not be merged together without an extreme amount of work. From what JL has shared it would no longer have been a paid endeavour so dedicating the amount of time and energy it would have required would have been at an extreme loss to Pavonis. I would say we should all be grateful for the fact that PI is porting over anything at all considering none of that is covered under the agreement, at least to the best of my knowledge. I believe I read somewhere that even the patches and additions they have made since the first version of LW2 were unpaid, though I could be mistaken.

Pavonis, in working with Firaxis and 2K, was trying to make a name for themselves in the gaming industry. Though they were technically making a mod for an existing game they are a development team focused on making money on a product. It just so happens they have built a great community along the way. Though I critique what they did with Long War 2, it just didn't feel as great as Long War 1, I know what their goals are and want to support them working towards those goals.

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johnnylump
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by johnnylump » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:41 pm

miguelmonte wrote:well that is a true great shame... i've bought the first xcom and hadn't played until i heard of LW... played and it made it a better game than it could ever been... even better with the enemy within expansion... same feeling with the xcom2... i can't even begin to fathom playing it without LW2... no infiltration, no extra classes, no extra enemies, extra challenge, extra, extra, extra goodness overall...

Pavonis made my experience with xcom games... and you MADE it... like firaxis could never have... and now, suddenly, just dropped it, "like a sack of kaiju s**t?" what am i missing? "we're really good at doing this!! so... we'll be doing something else!" really? really really? this is frustration talking i agree... but... how does that bode on your starting company, on your next games and such? "we're tired of this project so we are leaving it stone cold as is and move on?" this is an unfinished product, without the added suport for the wotc expansion, imo. and you know it.

be as it may, i can only thank you for the countless hours spent, dashing and slashing, critting and being critted, frustrating over that 5% crit shot that killed my star MVP wondering what he could have become...

and now i'me left wondering and frustrating about: "what if? what if Pavonis actually released LWOTC?..." ;)
It's not that we're tired of it; it's that we don't have an agreement with the publisher to update it and we simply don't have the means to do several thousand hours of labor for free.

Razmoudah
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Razmoudah » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:55 pm

A lot of people seem to forget about how much time it takes to do some of that work, and the fact that the ones doing the work still need to 'pay the bills' themselves. If you guys tried doing it in your spare time it could be a task taking a couple of years, while letting the general modding community at it it may only take six months instead because they'd have both the numbers and the spare time to put in the hours in a shorter relative time-span. That's why the big developers can put out such large games in so little time while the small indy developers spend years doing something much less grand.

EmeraldWD
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by EmeraldWD » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:15 pm

Truly awful news. I bought XCOM 2 because I was hoping to have this mod and now I just regret everything. What a waste... No interest in the base easy as hell game, not particularly interested in whatever this other game is either...

Oh well, guess I'm done with the series. Can't imagine I'll enjoy the third installment without it. See y'all never.

faceleg
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by faceleg » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:38 pm

Thanks for all your hard work PI!

Excited that you'll be able to focus on your new game :)

Solam
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Solam » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:06 pm

johnnylump wrote:
miguelmonte wrote:well that is a true great shame... i've bought the first xcom and hadn't played until i heard of LW... played and it made it a better game than it could ever been... even better with the enemy within expansion... same feeling with the xcom2... i can't even begin to fathom playing it without LW2... no infiltration, no extra classes, no extra enemies, extra challenge, extra, extra, extra goodness overall...

Pavonis made my experience with xcom games... and you MADE it... like firaxis could never have... and now, suddenly, just dropped it, "like a sack of kaiju s**t?" what am i missing? "we're really good at doing this!! so... we'll be doing something else!" really? really really? this is frustration talking i agree... but... how does that bode on your starting company, on your next games and such? "we're tired of this project so we are leaving it stone cold as is and move on?" this is an unfinished product, without the added suport for the wotc expansion, imo. and you know it.

be as it may, i can only thank you for the countless hours spent, dashing and slashing, critting and being critted, frustrating over that 5% crit shot that killed my star MVP wondering what he could have become...

and now i'me left wondering and frustrating about: "what if? what if Pavonis actually released LWOTC?..." ;)
It's not that we're tired of it; it's that we don't have an agreement with the publisher to update it and we simply don't have the means to do several thousand hours of labor for free.
Ok, why you don't cooprate with them to make it DLC ?! We will pay for it.
Or put your patron and we will pay for LW2

Jacke
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Jacke » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:20 am

Solam wrote:
johnnylump wrote:It's not that we're tired of it; it's that we don't have an agreement with the publisher to update it and we simply don't have the means to do several thousand hours of labor for free.
Ok, why you don't cooprate with them to make it DLC ?! We will pay for it.
Or put your patron and we will pay for LW2
Well, I have no knowledge of the inner workings of Pavonis or 2K or any negotiations between them, but I can imagine what would have happened. And that includes discussing DLC.

Don't you think this would have been discussed between them? 2K has the sales figures for WotC and will know that a DLC that depends on having both XCOM 2 and the WotC DLC will have lower sales numbers than WotC. Both 2K and Pavonis can estimate how much developing a LWotC DLC would cost. Thus they have a rough idea of what they'd need to charge to get a gross profit on that new DLC. Being a dependent secondary DLC, those sales numbers would be low and thus the unit price needed to be charged would tend to be high, further reducing the estimate of sales.

Stack that up against what ever else both 2K and Pavonis can do with their staffs and funds on other projects, either together or apart. In other words, the opportunity cost of making LWotC as opposed to something else.

Even considering using methods like volunteer support or donations would just support the cost of making the DLC but would minimally increase the sales, because a secondary DLC's sales would grow little with the minimally reduced price. And would do nothing to decrease the opportunity cost.

I think 2K would go for a new game not dependent on purchasers having a previous game and DLC. For example, an imagined XCOM 3. Its sales could be higher, approaching that of XCOM 2. This is just speculation on my part.

And Pavonis will put their resources into making their own product, Terra Invicta, which they've announced they're doing.

NardoLoopa
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by NardoLoopa » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:44 pm

I loved LW. And so when XCom2 came out I waited until LW2 before even starting a campaign, because it's a game made for my tastes. I'm enjoying in thoroughly. Thank you so much.

If LWotC were a Kickstarter for a DLC, I'd pledge in a heartbeat.

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Insufferable Smartypants
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Re: Announcement regarding LW2+WotC

Post by Insufferable Smartypants » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:51 pm

It's been quite a while since WotC came out, and I've been hoping against hope that somebody will figure out how to release Long War's squad management system as a standalone mod, but nobody seems interested in doing that. Any takers? :D

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