Suicidal snakes

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Undershaft
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:18 pm

Suicidal snakes

Post by Undershaft »

I just had a snake standing next to a car on the brink of explosion tongue-pull one of my troops in, thereby killing itself and the soldier.
Which I found a stupid way to die.

My question: Do aliens have any awareness of imminent explosions? If so: Can the gamefiles be altered to make them quit such suicidal nonsense?
llll BlackFlag
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 4:12 pm

Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by llll BlackFlag »

I try to justify things like that by attributing it to the overwhelming number of advent forces. They are so many that they are willing to suicide just to take out one XCOM operative because 1-1 is a super favorable trade for them. It makes your soldiers feel strong and makes combat feel much more like guerilla warfare where the goal is not to kill everything but to survive long enough to complete the objective.

One thing to do to prevent these situations is to learn the AI behavior. If that snake was flashed or stunned he wouldn't be doing any tongue grabbing. Snakes are usually some of the best targets to prioritize for this very reason. One good note is that snipey snakes will always move and never shoot if they start their turn flanked. I'd love to see other posts of similar AI behavior with how to manipulate it if anyone has other examples.
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by gimrah »

Snakes don't really understand cars. I mean, obviously they don't drive, since they can't operate the pedals.
faket15
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by faket15 »

What happened here isn't that hard to explain when you understand the AI. Most enemies who use cover start their turn checking whether or not they are flanked and/or in a dangerous area and, if the answer is yes, they try to move even if they take reaction fire. Vipers and Mutons skip this step.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by Dwarfling »

llll BlackFlag wrote:I'd love to see other posts of similar AI behavior with how to manipulate it if anyone has other examples.
Of the top of my head:

- Drones: When presented a flanked or exposed target, the Drone will prefer to shoot over move+stun.
- Officer: When flanked, will move. If it moves and isn't presented a flank or exposed target or frag opportunity, will use Mark. However I'm pretty sure he'll shoot when presented a shot with odds over 35%. Or maybe if it's also a possible killshot.
- Stunlancer: The target of the melee attack iis the one with the lower defense in its dashing radius. Runs overwatch and Suppression.
- Rocketeer: seems to follow a rule of scatter even when presented bunched up targets. Unsure of min value of scatter to shoot.
- Shieldbearer: will always move and shield on first turn.
- Viper: will Bind when presented a close enough target. Will spit poison after a move if not presented a good shot. Will use poison as first action then shot if safe. Will attempt tongue grab at medium distance as first move if in range.
- Sidewinder: Will spit poison after a move if not presented a good shot. Will use poison as first action then shot if safe and has decent shot.
- Naja: Will always move if flanked. Can't shoot after moving.
- Muton family: will attempt melee when presented a close enough target. Chances seem to decrease with more advanced Mutons.
- Archon: prefers to Blazing Pinions on first turn, despite Battle Frenzy. Melee targets the closest.
- Codex: will always cast Malfunction (rift) on first turn. Won't cast it if another Malfunction is already active.
- Gatekeeper: will cast the Psi Ball attack on first turn, trying to hit epicenter of human bodies, XCOM and ADVENT.
- Avatar: first turn will teleport and mind control.
Last edited by Dwarfling on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Psieye
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Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by Psieye »

If a Naja isn't flanked and it has squadsight on a target, it will shoot. No matter how bad the shot is, it will shoot.
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faket15
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by faket15 »

Most of what Dwarfling wrote is correct, but I will try to explain some of them better and correct the mistakes.
Dwarfling wrote:- Officer: When flanked, will move. If it moves and isn't presented a flank or exposed target or frag opportunity, will use Mark. However I'm pretty sure he'll shoot when presented a shot with odds over 35%. Or maybe if it's also a possible killshot.
Marking is actually higher priority than everything else, including grenades, shots against flanked targets and killshots. The reason why they don't always move + mark when flanked is because an Officer will only mark someone if he is able to see more than one enemy but if all other things are equal they prefer moving to tiles with only one visible enemy.
Dwarfling wrote:- Stunlancer: The target of the melee attack iis the one with the lower defense in its dashing radius. Runs overwatch and Suppression.
Partially true, but not exactly. Standard behavior for a lot of attacks, including Stun Lancer melee, only cares about two hit chance thresholds (40% and 60%). If multiple attacks are available with a chance in the same region the Lancer will not care about the exact value and will attack based on current HP prioritizing targets with full or almost full HP.
Dwarfling wrote:- Rocketeer: seems to follow a rule of scatter even when presented bunched up targets. Unsure of min value of scatter to shoot.
Not true, but I can see how you would think that because the area of their rockets is much smaller than XCom rockets, the same as a frag grenade.

Dwarfling wrote:- Viper: will Bind when presented a close enough target. Will spit poison after a move if not presented a good shot. Will use poison as first action then shot if safe. Will attempt tongue grab at medium distance as first move if in range.
Poison Spit is always higher priority than shots, no matter how good the shot is, but only one Viper per turn can use it. The same is valid for T1 Sidewinders, but not for T2 and T3, who don't even try to Poison Spit.
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: Suicidal snakes

Post by gimrah »

I've lost count of the number of times xwynns ignores a flanked officer because "it's going to move and mark". And it invariably shoots him in the face instead. In general with the possible exception of a shieldbearer with live allies, it's a good idea to to assume the enemy will take a flank shot if you offer one.

Rocketeers have a small radius attack. They will however rocket even single targets. I believe the range of their attack is reduced if they move. So you should think about whether (say) a flanked rocketeer could just run at you and rocket at close range.

I didn't know that about sidewinders but it does reflect my experience. Especially hilarious when they have a close range flank shot with a very high chance to kill and instead it just spits on a soldier with a medkit.
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