I'm overwhelmed!

[trihero]

It's probably a good thing, but I have 2 specific questions I would like to discuss:

1) I notice that I am getting essentially getting zero income due to "unknown activities." I'm aware the solution is to set soldiers in havens to kill faceless, but this leads me to 2 questions

a) when I initially set haven priorities, should I just ignore supply until the faceless are dead since they just suck the money away anyways?
b) how long does it take to detect a faceless? I put a squaddie rank soldier in there for a month and I couldn't find it

I find this one aspect of not making any money is the "straw that broke the camel's back" when I was learning all the differences in tactical/strategic then boom I'm not even making supplies to keep things moving forwards.

2) under what circumstances is it a favorable idea to send less than 5 or 6 men? I've noticed that if I get infiltration to 100% or thereabouts the enemy still has pod size 4, and I refuse to get into battle with those pod sizes with anything less than 5 or 6 men. I've seen it recommended to occasionally attempt a 2 man stealth mission but I have yet to see these go smoothly (I either get them horrendously wounded or captured despite my best efforts since there are still a minimum of 10 monsters on the map and they seem guaranteed to hover around the objective).

I feel like so far my comfort level is only sending out well equipped squads of 5 or 6 going for 100+% infiltration and just ignoring everything else because when I go outside the comfort zone I get massive casualties/wounds. Is this a valid tactic or do I need to attempt riskier missions?

[bilfdoffle]

1a - seems like you answered this question for yourself already.
1b - the chance will increase with higher ranked soldiers. Officers also get a bonus chance.

2 - hard to give advice on infiltration, your best bet is to watch some let's plays. Small squad (1-3 man) stealth missions are possible in lw2, but you probably want at least 5 if you plan to fight anything.

[GavinRuneblade]

2) under what circumstances is it a favorable idea to send less than 5 or 6 men? I've noticed that if I get infiltration to 100% or thereabouts the enemy still has pod size 4, and I refuse to get into battle with those pod sizes with anything less than 5 or 6 men. I've seen it recommended to occasionally attempt a 2 man stealth mission but I have yet to see these go smoothly (I either get them horrendously wounded or captured despite my best efforts since there are still a minimum of 10 monsters on the map and they seem guaranteed to hover around the objective)

I'm amazed to see it is possible to get a mission with only 10 enemies. So far on rookie even at 200% infiltration my smallest is 14 enemies on map before reinforcements.

[trihero]

I'm getting frustrated - at what point do we get to make money (supplies)?

I have 3 havens, each has a soldier adviser, and I just did a mission to kill faceless (unauthorized breach), and yet my supply drop was -89$. I can't make any progress with creating equipment or making new buildings like this!

[mattprice516]

I usually wait to put people on Supply until I've Liberated my first region.

In general in LW2, the Intel job for rebels will be most overall effective for you as long as you have enough squads to do the missions you're detecting (and can succeed in them). Supply and Recruit jobs are for when you have enough extra rebels and regions that you don't need them all looking for missions, or don't want to run missions in a region for some reason.

Supply Drain from infiltrators is on a daily basis - they will eat a % of the supplies your Haven produces each day and then you find out about it at the end of the month. That means if you kill the infiltrator near the end of the month, much of the damage for that month will already have been done. Infiltrators also only affect the region they're in, so if you know a region is clean you can get supplies from it without fear.

EDIT: Oops, got my versions mixed up. Right now they eat an additive amount of supplies, which will wipe out your supply drops unless you have a ton. It will change to a % in the next patch, which should help those early rebels on supply a little bit... though I'd still recommend all Intel early on.

[trihero]

Thanks for the information; can you tell me a little bit more about faceless? Once you've killed one in a region is it gone for good? Is there always a faceless in a region when you contact one? (including the one you start in).

I've definitely learned about havens that intel is pretty important; because of faceless, supply is about useless, and since supply is useless, then getting more recruits is essentially useless too if you don't have the money to buy rebels. Intel gives you breathing room on the tactical level (through infiltration) which is always great.

Is it pretty normal to have like....500 intel and 20 supplies at any given time? I'm beginning to think I should boost "important" missions (the ones that reward science or counter big events) and don't boost routine stuff like intel missions.

[mattprice516]

Huh. How much Intel are you getting from a typical mission? Should be about 30.

Any rebel recruited can be a Faceless, so if your Haven is clean and doesn't grow you know it's safe. The Recruit job doesn't actually require you to buy rebels, it just gets them for you over time. You only have to buy the rookies it generates.

[trihero]

I feel like the faceless mechanic is a little bit over the top. I'm extremely supply locked - I'm up to June and haven't been able to afford a single weapon or armor upgrade for any of my troops. The only supplies I get are from excavating the Avenger and those go straight into critical buildings and research paths, but I have nothing left over to actually buy even 1 weapon for 1 troop when I'm rotating through 20'ish troops =.=

[warbrand2]

I have found that selling surplus to the black market is one of the best ways to get supplies in long war two.

I play on easy though and their is a lot of loot per mission. selling anything you don't want or have excess of is vital.

[trihero]

Makes sense but it's hard to know what you might need later. Corpses are hard to come by and they can all be turned into useful items, and since there are so many troops you need to manage it's hard to have enough equipment to go around.

[mattprice516]

Faceless are getting changed a bit in patch 1.1 - % reduction instead of additive reduction. This means that it'll be more feasible to put a few rebels on Supply and still get some supplies.

I find that I'm typically not making much money from Havens though until I Liberate one of them (which grants an income bonus to that Haven). Until then it's BM and Excavation to stay afloat.

If you can pull off a Troop Column ambush or Supply Raid (both require lots of rebels on Intel to detect) you'll get a good amount of loot that can be sold.

Also, consider only building one or two buildings until you start making more money - you don't really need the PG super early IMO. Could try PG and GTS or PG and AWC I suppose, but I'm fond of GTS and AWC first and then waiting for PG (and the requisite power relay) until I'm making more money.

[Arcalane]

I feel like the faceless mechanic is a little bit over the top. I'm extremely supply locked - I'm up to June and haven't been able to afford a single weapon or armor upgrade for any of my troops. The only supplies I get are from excavating the Avenger and those go straight into critical buildings and research paths, but I have nothing left over to actually buy even 1 weapon for 1 troop when I'm rotating through 20'ish troops =.=

Make sure you assign a combat soldier to your Havens as an active overseer/agent, then! I have a random Assault overseeing my starting Haven and she manages to root out faceless every couple of months. My income has been much more reliable since then, and she even ranked up from one of the counterintel missions.

The first op I took out two infiltrators that were taking my income down to about 10% of the displayed values.

[trihero]

Thanks for the tips, they are helpful.

More questions about faceless:

1) how do you know for sure that all the faceless are gone from a given region? Recently I've dedicated officer soldiers to havens but I don't know how long I need to keep them there, it's quite the investment of troops and supplies. Upgrading the GTS to be able to train officers itself is -15 a month that I'm not even making back from detecting faceless.

2) does liberating an area get rid of faceless in that region?

I think I'm beginning to agree with mattprice that don't even bother with putting rebels on supplies (or recruiting for that matter) until you've liberated a region

[Arcalane]

Thanks for the tips, they are helpful.

More questions about faceless:

1) how do you know for sure that all the faceless are gone from a given region? Recently I've dedicated officer soldiers to havens but I don't know how long I need to keep them there, it's quite the investment of troops and supplies. Upgrading the GTS to be able to train officers itself is -15 a month that I'm not even making back from detecting faceless.

I don't think you can ever be truly sure.

Still, consider; if there were faceless, your income would be significantly lower. By keeping a soldier on station, you are effectively reinforcing/securing your income so that yes, you are in fact making that back from detecting faceless because they're not there to steal it.

If a region makes 60, but 50 is being stolen by faceless, then that puts you at -5 after your -15 a month. If there are no faceless stealing anything, you're at 45!

It ain't rocket science.

[Valaska]

Thanks for the tips, they are helpful.

More questions about faceless:

1) how do you know for sure that all the faceless are gone from a given region? Recently I've dedicated officer soldiers to havens but I don't know how long I need to keep them there, it's quite the investment of troops and supplies. Upgrading the GTS to be able to train officers itself is -15 a month that I'm not even making back from detecting faceless.

I don't think you can ever be truly sure.

Still, consider; if there were faceless, your income would be significantly lower. By keeping a soldier on station, you are effectively reinforcing/securing your income so that yes, you are in fact making that back from detecting faceless because they're not there to steal it.

If a region makes 60, but 50 is being stolen by faceless, then that puts you at -5 after your -15 a month. If there are no faceless stealing anything, you're at 45!

It ain't rocket science.

My question, how are faceless stealing 75% of your supplies without being noticed? This change just seems... Silly and unrealistic lol.

[Arcalane]

My question, how are faceless stealing 75% of your supplies without being noticed? This change just seems... Silly and unrealistic lol.

They don't necessarily have to be 'stealing' it directly. Let's say Joe Bob and Jim Frank take their truck and drive some boxes of stolen ADVENT Burgers from Camp A to Camp B.

Hugh Mann, our helpful faceless infiltrator, quietly tips his handlers off to the transfer. An ADVENT patrol 'happens' to stumble across the truck's contents on a 'routine' vehicle search. Joe and Jim never make it to the drop, and neither do the supplies, but it's not unusually suspicious - sometimes ADVENT does get lucky.

[Valaska]

My question, how are faceless stealing 75% of your supplies without being noticed? This change just seems... Silly and unrealistic lol.

They don't necessarily have to be 'stealing' it directly. Let's say Joe Bob and Jim Frank take their truck and drive some boxes of stolen ADVENT Burgers from Camp A to Camp B.

Hugh Mann, our helpful faceless infiltrator, quietly tips his handlers off to the transfer. An ADVENT patrol 'happens' to stumble across the truck's contents on a 'routine' vehicle search. Joe and Jim never make it to the drop, and neither do the supplies, but it's not unusually suspicious - sometimes ADVENT does get lucky.

Still an odd thought there isn't missions to ensure the successful delivery, or at least guards making sure these supplies make it to the avenger. I don't really see it likely that these supplies are being driven through advent cehckpoints etc when the resistance is so mobile.

[trihero]

Still, consider; if there were faceless, your income would be significantly lower. By keeping a soldier on station, you are effectively reinforcing/securing your income so that yes, you are in fact making that back from detecting faceless because they're not there to steal it.

If a region makes 60, but 50 is being stolen by faceless, then that puts you at -5 after your -15 a month. If there are no faceless stealing anything, you're at 45!

It ain't rocket science.

These numbers don't match my experience though.

Before I put soldiers in havens, I was getting dinged -89$ from faceless.

After I put 3 soldiers, I caught one faceless and the next time I was "only" dinged -69. Was that 20 worth the 3 soldiers + 15 monthly upkeep?

It isn't rocket science...

[Cloista]

Is there a way to modify the % chance of faceless infiltration?

[Arcalane]

These numbers don't match my experience though.

Before I put soldiers in havens, I was getting dinged -89$ from faceless.

After I put 3 soldiers, I caught one faceless and the next time I was "only" dinged -69. Was that 20 worth the 3 soldiers + 15 monthly upkeep?

It isn't rocket science...

You found one faceless in one of your havens. You likely have at least two other faceless operating in your other havens to drain that much, probably in your starting haven. I haven't seen a loss over -20 or -30 over the past two months of supply drops.

And yes, I would still argue that 20 is worth it, because it's going to pay off in the long run. Keep hunting, you'll dig them out eventually.

[mattprice516]

So a few quick hints:

* Rebels who were not previously Faceless won't just turn into Faceless spontaneously. Infiltrators have to be new recruits.

* Faceless can only steal supplies from Havens they're in. This lets you create "safer" regions that are to gather supplies from after you've cleared the spies out. Maybe don't gather supplies from a new region until you've had a soldier there for a month or so?

[Arcalane]

Still an odd thought there isn't missions to ensure the successful delivery, or at least guards making sure these supplies make it to the avenger.

You mean assigning soldiers to havens to root out possible infiltrators? Hang on a sec...

Aside from that, you don't want too many guards - it'll draw too much attention. Double-edged sword.

I don't really see it likely that these supplies are being driven through advent cehckpoints etc when the resistance is so mobile.

It was a hypothetical scenario. How about an alternative concept if it helps you wrap your head around it;

Haven Overseer Mara designates the location for this month's supply dead drop - a cave that the Avenger can land near and easily load up from. Hugh Mann, our intrepid faceless infiltrator, maneuvers himself (itself?) onto the team assigned to deliver the supplies. Once there, Hugh memorizes the location and forwards the coordinates to his (its?) handlers. An ADVENT patrol swings by and confiscates the supplies before the Avenger arrives, leaving the team empty handed.

There are dozens of different ways for an infiltrator to divert supplies away that don't involve them directly. The intercepted vehicle is just one of those possibilities.

For those unfamiliar with the concept of a dead drop, it's when an individual leaves an object (typically containing information, but it can be materiel of some kind as well) at a predetermined location for a second individual or group to collect. The two individuals never meet, reducing the chances of detection and of both being caught at once. See the dead drop article on wikipedia.

[Valaska]

Its still unlikely even with that explanation, if you are going to start losing that damn much in supplies you are going to start doing things like guarded drops, or at least timing pick-up sooner, the fact that three quarters of your supplies from that Haven goes missing is just too much... It'd be like payroll losing 75% of the money they were meant to pay out, instantly that is massive warning signs and measures should be taken to overcome that.

If I was able to talk to my havens in real time, realistically, I would totally be going "Hey uhh... What the hell is the deal here? Its time for more secure routes to usher supplies." Underground tunnels to persistent supply drops, etc. If the Advent really wanted to hamper XCOM's ability to operate and infiltrated with a faceless they'd likely bomb you out, or would ambush you at where you pick the supplies up instead of trying to steal some meager supplies that likely means nothing to the vast war machine of the Advent.

Those supplies would be much more valuable as baits if they aren't willing to outright destroy the Havens int he first place.

[jztemple]

I do have a question about when you contact a second region. I still have my first region set to all six rebels gathering Intel. Should I do the same on this new area? I'm going to be spread thin covering all the missions.

I guess I'm not understanding the overall picture of Havens. Have I made contact too early if I'm still running a lot of missions in my first Haven? When is the proper time to start working a new region? I've looked through the Archive Updates and maybe I'm just not able to see the big picture.

[Pendrako]

According to the Novel, most Havens are in or surrounded by Contagion Zones, which ADVENT and Aliens tend to avoid a hell of a lot, like they're scared of the stuff (for good reason, given what they show it did to wildlife in those areas).

The Avenger's Crash site was in one of those in India, for instance, hence why the aliens never salvaged it in roughly 20 years.

also... even with Advanced tech and all that, monitoring an entire planet isn't exactly easy, and they're still outnumbered by humanity, AND can't really go all out without blatantly tipping off people who're either living in their Megacities or on the Fringe Settlements that their intentions aren't peaceful if they carpet bombed somewhere.... you'd have to be ridiculously unobservant to miss something like that.