Strategy for timed missions

[Inemuri]

Many of the timed missions I've had so far have seemed like an impossible task with the loadout I've chosen and I'm wondering if the problem is my play or if those missions need more turns. I've been playing on veteran.

I could start bringing a smaller squad, all with SMGs, specialist to grab the objective from range, lightning reflexes perhaps, shinobi maybe. I could have sprinted to the objective and avoid contact. Is that the way those missions are intended to be played on veteran? Or am I missing something?

[warbrand2]

Ok some questions first, are you using any map pack mods, and on what map types are you having problems with timed objectives?


Something me and a few others have noticed is on the larger maps the timer may be enough to barrely get you to the objective in vanilla, with modded maps making it impossible.

The best strategy for this stuff is yes SMG and specialist but there is more hten a few times that the risk may at weight the reward on these maps.


Currently I would suggest going into the .INI files and adding 4-6 turns to all timed missions, I only suggest this if you are running map mods though.

Out side of that, I would suggest loading out a specialist with an SMG and NO GEAR as to max out their move speed along with trying to keep from alerting the enemy for as long as possible, but moving as quickly as possible.

[Inemuri]

Ok some questions first, are you using any map pack mods, and on what map types are you having problems with timed objectives?

I'm not using any map mods. I'm having problems are large city maps.

[warbrand2]

then take the advice I gave above.

[Inemuri]

then take the advice I gave above.

As I said in my original comment, I'm all for trying the SMG strats. I'm interested in whether there are any other strategies I'm missing. I'd be surprised if PI intended players to solo every timed mission with a specialist with no gear.

[warbrand2]

sorry smg, and not giving grenades and gear is teh best option for timed. there isn't much else.

[mattprice516]

I can tell you that I am a Veteran / Commander LW2 player, and I have found that after I've gotten used to moving reasonably fast (aka be double moving every turn until you break concealment) I haven't found the timers to be an issue. Picking up the GTS ability that gives you more mobility at the start of the mission helps, as does making sure everyone has at least 12 mobility after equipment has been done (so if you have a soldier with 14 or 13 base mobility, don't fill all their utility slots or maybe give them an SMG).

There are far better players than me on the playtesting team, and I would bet one of them might drop in to offer some advice. In the meantime, I'll be trying to think about how exactly I do timed missions in LW2, because I've got three hundred hours in the game and I honestly haven't felt like the timers are a problem. What does your typical mission look like? Move/OW for the first few turns then break concealment? Double move all the way to the objective? Mix?

Also, do all your soldiers have between 13 and 18 base mobility? Some people have reported only having 8 or something, which is crazy low (and a bug of some kind).

EDIT: In general the timer should be about 13 turns for most rescue type missions and 8 turns for most hack type missions. Does that jive with what you've seen? You don't have to kill all the enemies or even evac before the timer on the 8 turn ones, just hack the objective usually.

I really want to figure this out because it seems to be a source of great frustration for a lot of folks and I'm thinking there must be something we're doing differently because I started a new campaign last night and felt pretty comfortable with all the timed missions. O_o

[warbrand2]

I think the problem here is map type. and yeah if you double move everyone the first 2 or 3 turns you can generally make it. but the larger maps mainly the ones which are train hacks (hate them), tend to require you having a high move speed guy low geared with an SMG.

[GavinRuneblade]

For me, so far the only missions where the timer was a huge barrier were when fights happened too soon.

Because of the combo of smaller squads and more enemies fights take longer. As troops die this becomes exagerrated. Same with the more and larger reinforcements.

In vanilla the strategy was blow ambush on the first pod. My most successful missions in long war 2 have been the ones where I got closest to the objective before violence broke out. Instead of killing the aliens to succeed, combat now carries a fatal cost in turns.

[mattprice516]

That's a good observation - as a guerrilla resistance, it's often not in XCOM's favor to try and fight all the enemies on the map. Because enemies in LW2 patrol on their own patrol paths (instead of knowing exactly where XCOM is and rubberbanding towards them right when XCOM crosses their path as in vanilla), you can usually sneak past a pod or two on your way to the objective. I find that in most timed missions I tend to kill roughly 2/3 of the enemies (sometimes more, sometimes less) before evaccing with the objective.

LW2 is a much more objective-focused game - if the objective is to hack, that's what the player is expected to do. If the objective is to rescue, that's what you want to try to do. Accomplish the objective and then get out before the hammer drops. This also goes for the overall arc of the game, btw - "flawless" play on the part of the player isn't supposed to mean you don't take wounds and don't lose valued soldiers. It just means you win the game - and that's the objective. Stop the AVATAR project and win the game - at any cost. Sacrificing a few soldiers to get the vital data that allows you to find the alien HQ to Liberate a region... it's those kinds of stories LW2 is designed to create.

All that said, there are definitely missions in LW2 designed as giant epic fights where you're supposed to kill all the enemies - Troop Columns, Supply Raids, HQ missions, Monument Sabotage, and many rebel-oriented missions are this way. It's just not all of the missions any more as it was in vanilla.

[Inemuri]

What does your typical mission look like? Move/OW for the first few turns then break concealment? Double move all the way to the objective? Mix?

I generally double move while in concealment and then only double move afterwards when I think it's safe to do so. But so far I've found that isn't always possible, especially if you bump into a pod you cannot easily get around or lose concealment early on a timed mission. If that happens the missions felt irretrievable.

Also, do all your soldiers have between 13 and 18 base mobility? Some people have reported only having 8 or something, which is crazy low (and a bug of some kind).

I saw that and checked, and my soldiers stats seem to be as they should be.

EDIT: In general the timer should be about 13 turns for most rescue type missions and 8 turns for most hack type missions. Does that jive with what you've seen? You don't have to kill all the enemies or even evac before the timer on the 8 turn ones, just hack the objective usually.

I believe 13 and 8 turn missions is normally what I've been seeing. I've not had any problems with 8-turn missions -- well, to be precise I've not felt like they are unfair -- but the 13-turn "objective to predeteremined evac" type missions have (so far) felt notably harder than other missions.

I really want to figure this out because it seems to be a source of great frustration for a lot of folks and I'm thinking there must be something we're doing differently because I started a new campaign last night and felt pretty comfortable with all the timed missions. O_o

I know there were many of the same complaints with vanilla, but I generally found vanilla timed missions okay, although they always felt like more dangerous missions. I'm not against timers completely like some, but I don't like it when you have to worry more about the timer than the enemies. It wasn't something I minded as much in EW/LW1, as the bomb defusal missions occurred the right amount to provide mission variety without outstaying their welcome.

I think it's entirely possible that my play is the problem. I think I'll avoid the temptation to add more turns on for now, and keep a closer eye on mobility when those missions come up. If I'm still having problems after a week or so, I'll come back and whine some more

[Inemuri]

In vanilla the strategy was blow ambush on the first pod. My most successful missions in long war 2 have been the ones where I got closest to the objective before violence broke out. Instead of killing the aliens to succeed, combat now carries a fatal cost in turns.

I think that might be what I'm looking for. I'll give more stealth a shot.

Edit: Predictably, first 13 turn mission after making this post, capture VIP, finished it flawlessly with 5 turns to spare... Didn't even realise it was a timed mission so I didn't go for a mobile squad.

[mattprice516]

Inemuri, your willingness to try new strategies first instead of immediately modding that aspect of the game out warms my heart. Truly.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes! One last tip - officers start with an ability that lets you spend a little bit of Intel to extend a timer.

[Inemuri]

Inemuri, your willingness to try new strategies first instead of immediately modding that aspect of the game out warms my heart. Truly.

Part of me wants to play the game as the devs intended, and it'll not let me mod it even if I wanted to. I didn't bother using collections of mods before LW2 because I didn't want to have to balance it all myself.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes! One last tip - officers start with an ability that lets you spend a little bit of Intel to extend a timer.

I am a bit further into my campaign and I haven't been feeling like timers are unfair. Basically, I think the 13-turn missions specifically are more difficult early on. I've found the timers are more forgiving once you have officers and decent soldiers. But if you have a squad with rookies and an unfavourable map layout, I think that someone at my level is going to have trouble even with a good squad loadout and playing stealthily. But given how quickly the game gives you solutions, it's not a big problem.

To give some general feedback, I like the timers best when I have enough leeway to have a multiple turn firefight, but the timer is still adding tension to the situation. For example, my squad all had sight of an alien relay to destroy, but were dealing with two pods. I had four turns to destroy it, and while I would have probably finished the fight and destroyed the relay in that time even if there wasn't a timer, the fact that there was a timer added tension.

I will add, however, that that tension would probably have remained if I had an extra couple of turns to play with. While that might mean having a few more missions end with lots of turns to spare, in terms of "fun" I'd much prefer for that to happen occasionally and have the ability to let fights go on for longer. Maybe I should be playing rookie difficulty. I've put in over 100 hours into X2, and more into LW1, and I'm having plenty of trouble with those fights themselves, like the disoriented muton who one-shot a full-health soldier in half-cover and then next turn, while suppressed, left another soldier in full-cover with two health. The funny thing is after the initial salt, I feel okay about those kinds of situation.

[redscare]

I've had some missions like "I get to get WHERE in 12 turns?!?!?!". So far I've mostly suceeded (2 soldiers captured in one of those ). Good to know it's likely due to some map mods I have enabled. I'll maybe disable some if it gets too unfair.

Most of the time, moving in 2 steps with a high mobility shinoby first and then dashing with the rest of the team if the coast is clear is good enough. And taking a detour if I see/hear a pod while still far from the objective also pays off. Better lose a turn in a detour than 2 turns in a fight and also lose concealment.

[ben1501]

When attempting to fight the same way I would in vanilla (encounter a pod, wipe the pod, move on) on timed missions I've run into some close calls, but I still haven't encountered a situation where I can't get where I need to go in time. I'm not using any map mods, so I absolutely do recommend what others have said about trying to make adjustments to the default turn timer if you're using these larger maps.

One big rule I've been following that has helped out a lot: once I am through half of my turns, I try to focus my attention solely on completing the objective and getting the hell out of Dodge. The result is I stop focusing on shooting to kill (unless I know that it won't slow me down) and instead focus on moving towards extraction, while also providing cover from the remaining Advent forces via suppression, area suppression, flashbangs, or just being faster than the enemies.

By following these rules, I often find myself in situations where I have the remnants of a few pods remaining (a few normal troopers is quite common actually) and can easily get away from them and towards extraction with the penalty at worst being a few pop shots per turn. Not only has this saved my biscuit a few times (as this has allowed me to evade and basically nullify reinforcements at times), but it has also "slingshotted" me out of bad situations quickly. That is to say: I either suffer a few pop shots and get away (which you can totally take if your ceramic plating is still up on most) or have enemies chase me then go into overwatch. On the next turn, either flashbang/suppress/etc. or just simply double-move away from them and take advantage of being harder to hit from overwatch when you're double-moving. Now that you've been moving for 2 turns and the enemies (if they overwatched) spent part of one of their turns going into overwatch, they are now far enough away that they can't catch up AND shoot you in one turn. So long as you keep moving, they won't catch you.

That looks like a rambling mess, but I hope it helps!

[moroniccinamun]

It seems kind of ironic given what other people are saying, but so far I have had close to zero issue with the ones involving rescuing/assassinating with a pre-placed evac zone.

The bloody hacking missions kill me. Maybe because 1 too many times I tried the "kill first pod you see", although in my latest example it feels I was bit screwed in that the choice was get spotted by a turret or face 3 pods at once; maybe if I was more patient I could have made it, but it wasn't exactly my strongest squad on this mission.

Still, more than any other mission I've had to bug out of a hack mission without completing the objective. Let's hope those soldier's lives will be worth it in the end (I only really lost a few intel rewards when I had tons and let a dark event or 2 slip by which ended up being inconsequential).