How do you equip your soldiers?

[trihero]

I'm in the fairly early-middish game (coil guns are researching), and I'm wondering you guys equip your soldiers at this stage in the game on a budget. I know it's a complex question because of all the different classes and items out there; my basic stab at it is to just go incrementally - research laser weapons and slowly equip troops with them (they are nice because of the +5% aim and more affordable than doing straight magnetic), and for the 3 utility slots:

1. ceramic plating - I think everyone should use this, with one possible exception being the "sniper on the rooftop" who should never get shot at and would like the mobility afforded by not wearing one. The ablative hitpoints keep wound times manageable and also keep you from simply getting one shot.

If I had more money I'd invest in better ablative armor. I've considered outright making a nanoscale vest (+3 armor, -25% crit) to put on those daring shinobi/assault who just love to get up in the action, as I might have saved a couple lives with this equipment since they get flanked so often.

If I had a lot of money/tech I'd put grappling on sniper and an exo suit on the technical, but that takes a llottttt of time and effort to get those.

2. tracer rounds - cheap 5 supply per one of these, for +5 aim. Not flashy, but cheap and helpful to squeeze in some damage/get closer to the grazing band.

3. depends - usually flashbang is good here, I've considered wearing medkits just to be immune to those annoying viper poison clouds.

I try to research and put suppressors on everyone's guns; infiltration is such a key mechanic to this game and I've noticed some droughts of intelligence at times so anything to get infiltration time as low as possible seems to me a universally good principle. Scopes come after suppressors (unless it's putting laser sights on shotguns).

What's your guy's "tech path" and equipment strategy? Are there any standout items you recommend? I've considered making some Stilleto rounds because +2 damage to organic is huge and organic is 90% of what you see at this stage of the game, but never quite committed because I also want chameleon suits and they both need faceless corpses.

[redscare]

I'm still in early game, Veteran difficulty. So far the default loadout is proving to be very good. Only changes I do are:
-Remove nade from snipers, give them some ammo.
-Give grenadier 2 frags instead of frag+flash (going full sapper with my grenadiers).

Flashes are amazing. Incredible lifesavers in many situations. Mindcontrol, revived grunts, vipers, that guy you cannot kill and you know is going to nail you in his turn... Didn't use them much in vanilla but here are a must.

[trihero]

-Give grenadier 2 frags instead of frag+flash (going full sapper with my grenadiers).

I don't understand - the grenadier can wear 2 frags and a flash and that's how it default is laid out to. Do you not use 2 frag + flash on grenadiers?

[redscare]

-Give grenadier 2 frags instead of frag+flash (going full sapper with my grenadiers).

I don't understand - the grenadier can wear 2 frags and a flash and that's how it default is laid out to. Do you not use 2 frag + flash on grenadiers?

Sorry, I meant remove flash and give them another frag. That way they get 3. Then there is a perk that gives them an extra use per nade and they go to 6 (although maybe it's only 5 for some reason) and every mission is July 4th.

[trihero]

Why not use 3 frag 1 flash? Or 4 frag? Or 2 frag 2 flash (with ordnance giving you another effective frag) Is ceramic that valuable over another nade? (considering nades are excellent with the grenadier's launcher)

[redscare]

Why not use 3 frag 1 flash? Or 4 frag? Or 2 frag 2 flash (with ordnance giving you another effective frag) Is ceramic that valuable over another nade? (considering nades are excellent with the grenadier's launcher)

Now that nades don't break cover consistently unless you have sapper, I find it a waste to have a flash in the launcher. And also add that I try to play very conservatively. So if my guy can be one-shotted without ceramic, then ceramic it is.

The way I play (as far from the enemy as possible) grenadiers are usually on the front line to be able to land their nades for maximum efficiency. If you are more agressive and the grenadier can be in a 2nd row, then it may be ok not to use ceramic.

Flashbangs also have a wider area of effect, so most of the time I can move and throw it with another soldier and still affect the key mofo that didn't have the good manners to die this turn. If not... well... I try to play as if low-cover did not exist, so most of the time everyone is behind hard cover (or low cover on higher ground). And being far from the enemy means they cannot flank me in a single turn.

It all boils down to your playstyle, I guess. I never watch videos of top players or anything, so no idea if my way is the best or not (probably not, I'm sure I do plenty of non-optimal things).

[Devon_v]

Personally I find that explosives are still fantastic and Grenadiers still rule. You can't recover bodies on most missions anyway, and loot grabs are often risky in large firefights anyway.

Four frags on a Grenadier, Shinobis are better at using Flashbangs. You can check the AWC for the Flashbanger perk as an added bonus for Grenadiers.

Plating seems like a no brainer for everyone up front.

I only give upgraded guns to Rangers and Assaults at the moment. Everyone else has a sword, something better to do, and/or grenades

[trihero]

Embarrasingly it took me quite a while to figure out grenadiers could wear something like 4 frags + SMG. I was stuck with the base mentality of 2 frags + flash + ceramic + assault rifle, but I forgot that there's no grenade limitation in the utility slots anymore and I forgot the SMG helps offset the numbing -4 mobility.

I still think there is some value in trying a grenadier focused on the flashbang/defensive side of the tree, but it would revolve around assaults/shinobis to do the damage since they don't need cover destruction.

[trihero]

Do y'all build alloy plating (+3 ablative, costs 10 supplies + 1 alloy + trooper corpse per 1) or not? (maybe after lasers?)

[Arcalane]

Rangers - Best rifles, then load up on plating/vest. Mindshield for Officers. Predator armour or bust.
Assaults - Rifles or Shotguns if their aim is good, SMGs if their mobility is bad. Otherwise, my Assaults are all stungun builds because they're the closest thing you can get to having a Carl Gustav or AT4 on your team. The Mk2 'thrower is 6-11 armour ignoring damage on mechs! Predator armour again.
Sharpshooters - As little as possible. My sharpshooters are sprinting around holotagging things. Also skeleton suits.
Shinobi - Skeleton suits, SMGs, and stabby things. Mindshield for debuff resists.
Grenadier - Predator armour, SMGs, and then flashbang+explosive+utility explosive. Explosive being Frag/Plasma and utility explosive being Incendiary/Gas/etc.
Technical - Exo armour, SMG or rifle, mindshield. My techs are mostly rocket builds and don't get much love due to ammo limitations.
Specialist - Rifles. My specs lean towards a mix of healing and hacking. Restoration Protocol is mandatory, as is Failsafe.
Gunner - Predator, LMG. Simple.

[trihero]

Arcalane, do you equip ammo on any of your troops if so what types.

[Arcalane]

Typically no- I prefer to have extra HP, utility defense, or grenades. I don't have enough "strategic" resources (i.e. alloys, elerium) to go constantly sinking them into ammo when upgrading weapons or armour is more important.

Ammo hinges on you landing hits. Whilst this means stuff like bluescreen ammo is great vs MECs, other ammo types can be harder to use. Ammo also slows you down like any other item last I checked, and the utility effects of flashbangs or other grenades are just too good to pass up. Then there's just plain survivability, of course.

[trihero]

I see. You don't even use tracers? They are super cheap just $5 and come from hybrid materials research which is quite early, and they help you to hit to begin with. I would think you would use them on rangers since they fire twice.

[dodger]

I still think there is some value in trying a grenadier focused on the flashbang/defensive side of the tree, but it would revolve around assaults/shinobis to do the damage since they don't need cover destruction.

Just for science, I built a grenadier this way and it's indeed pretty effective. Even rangers, Gunners, technicals can advance pretty aggressively when the enemy is flashbanged and get in flank shots or the perfect flamethrower line up. With rapid deployment you can send out two flashbangs in one turn if/when needed and of course they benefit from additional range and area of affect of the grenade launcher. Having grenadier handle this frees up more slots on other troops for fun ammo or more mobility. It's even better if you get free flash or smoke grenades from AWC.

[juplaa]

I learned the hard way that Nanoscale Vests give you extra health, not increased ablative armor.

I thought it was a bug at first, but since you can equip bot the Nano-vest and and plating i'm sure it's not a bug. Alloy plating gives you 3 ablative armor. I think you need to Advent Trooper autopsy for that.

[Arcalane]

I see. You don't even use tracers? They are super cheap just $5 and come from hybrid materials research which is quite early, and they help you to hit to begin with. I would think you would use them on rangers since they fire twice.

My Rangers are good enough shots that it's not necessary, most of the time. And again, my #1 Ranger is also pretty much my #1 Officer. I want him to survive at all costs, so having him too close to the frontline doing a lot of shooting isn't always good.

~~~~

I learned the hard way that Nanoscale Vests give you extra health, not increased ablative armor.

I thought it was a bug at first, but since you can equip bot the Nano-vest and and plating i'm sure it's not a bug. Alloy plating gives you 3 ablative armor. I think you need to Advent Trooper autopsy for that.

The game pretty specifically says "you can equip one vest and one plating" somewhere, I'm sure. I think it's in the description of each Vest and Plating item.

Vests are always standard HP, Platings are always ablative HP. Vests typically come with an extra bonus (crit resist, enviro resist, extra armour) to offset the extended healing time.

[Valaska]

Ammo is more infiltration weight I believe, so I haven't bothered using them yet.

[trihero]

Doh tracers is not just 5 supply, it's 1 elerium as well. I guess this is where rendering cores helps in the early game.

[Arcalane]

Ammo is more infiltration weight I believe, so I haven't bothered using them yet.

That's the case for literally everything, though. In fact, ammo has a slightly lower infiltration weight compared to many other items;

Code: Select all

; baseline covertness -- does not change the infiltration time
+InfiltrationCovertness_Baseline=100f
; multiplier per +100 covertness over baseline -- e.g. +50 => 1.25x, +100 => 1.5x
+InfiltrationCovertness_RateUp=0.67f
; multiplier per -100 covertness under baseline -- e.g. -50 => 0.875x, -100 => 0.75x
+InfiltrationCovertness_RateDown=0.67f

+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="weapon", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=1f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="armor", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=2.0f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="upgrade", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.25f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="ammo", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.25f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="utility", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="combatsim", CovertnessValue=0f, CovertnessWeight=0f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="heal", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="defense", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="plating", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="psidefense", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="psioffense", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="grenade", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="tech", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)
+ItemCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="skulljack", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)

+WeaponCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="cannon", CovertnessValue=200f, CovertnessWeight=1f)
+WeaponCategoryCovertness=(CategoryName="pistol", CovertnessValue=100f, CovertnessWeight=0.5f)

+EquipmentCovertness=(ItemName="SMG_CV", CovertnessValue=75f, CovertnessWeight=1f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(ItemName="SMG_LS", CovertnessValue=75f, CovertnessWeight=1f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(ItemName="SMG_MG", CovertnessValue=75f, CovertnessWeight=1f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(ItemName="SMG_CG", CovertnessValue=75f, CovertnessWeight=1f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(ItemName="SMG_BM", CovertnessValue=50f, CovertnessWeight=1f)

+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="ChameleonSuit", CovertnessValue=0f, CovertnessWeight=0f, IndividualMultiplier=0.8f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="FreeKillUpgrade_Bsc", CovertnessValue=0f, CovertnessWeight=0f, IndividualMultiplier=0.85f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="FreeKillUpgrade_Adv", CovertnessValue=0f, CovertnessWeight=0f, IndividualMultiplier=0.8f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="FreeKillUpgrade_Sup", CovertnessValue=0f, CovertnessWeight=0f, IndividualMultiplier=0.75f)

+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="LightPlatedArmor", CovertnessValue=90f, CovertnessWeight=2.0f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="HeavyPlatedArmor", CovertnessValue=110f, CovertnessWeight=2.0f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="LightPoweredArmor", CovertnessValue=90f, CovertnessWeight=2.0f)
+EquipmentCovertness=(Itemname="HeavyPoweredArmor", CovertnessValue=110f, CovertnessWeight=2.0f)

So, anything with a CovertnessValue under 100 offers a small reduction in infiltration time. Anything with a higher CovertnessValue, however, increases infiltration time. Gunner LMGs, for instance, are a pretty big bump. SMGs, on the other hand, all reduce your infil times pretty noticeably. Light armour types (Wraith, Skeleton) are sneaky, but heavy types (Exo, WAR) are not.

I assume the weight is used to sort of balance things out over types, so armour has a bigger impact than weapons, and weapons have a bigger impact than usable items, and so on.

[juplaa]

Messed up the editing. See the post below.

[juplaa]

I learned the hard way that Nanoscale Vests give you extra health, not increased ablative armor.

I thought it was a bug at first, but since you can equip bot the Nano-vest and and plating i'm sure it's not a bug. Alloy plating gives you 3 ablative armor. I think you need to Advent Trooper autopsy for that.

The game pretty specifically says "you can equip one vest and one plating" somewhere, I'm sure. I think it's in the description of each Vest and Plating item.

Vests are always standard HP, Platings are always ablative HP. Vests typically come with an extra bonus (crit resist, enviro resist, extra armour) to offset the extended healing time.

It sure does. I was still figuring things out when i got them and was like "ooh armor! This should reduce my med-bay". Had a case of TMI I suppose.


--------

Also, I find full rangers wreck havoc on missions where you have to fight from entrenched positions. I have built 2 full on offensive (left column). They had pretty high aim to start.

(*)Weapon mods: (Elite) Auto-loader, Scope and Expanded Magazine.
Since they'll be on the front line, as much life-gain as possible: Armor, vest and plating
Some ammo: i prefer tracer rounds, but depending on squad composition you can take other things. A mind shield is also a good consideration.

Just put him in heavy cover in front. They have low mobility, but once they get in a good position you'll get a bang for your buck. Try placing them at the center, other units should cover the flanks as he has low mobility. They can fire for days, and it's cute when the aliens are in half cover. Walk Fire ability is a good second shot to help clean up low-health enemies whose cover remained intact after an AOE. The high aim also helps if you have snipers in the back to take down enemies in heavy cover. I forgot the name of the perk, but it give you increased aim/crit when firing at the some opponent. Goods times...

(*)Edit: Replace Scope with Hair Trigger or your aim is high enough. There's always that 1 guy that tries his luck, and it's a good combo with Gunners who are suppressing.

[Goumindong]

I see. You don't even use tracers? They are super cheap just $5 and come from hybrid materials research which is quite early, and they help you to hit to begin with. I would think you would use them on rangers since they fire twice.

Early on Gunners and Snipers and Rangers* can take AP rounds, prevents them from not killing some armored units. They're my primary shooting DPR anyway and are only going to have a smoke as a secondary if they have any grenades so that is fine. Later on they can grab a more specialized type of ammo... maybe. The more specialized ammo is a lot harder to utilize**. No one else should be using ammo, especially not tracer rounds; 5 aim isn't close to worth 5 supplies and the loss of a grenade.

*But i don't actually use rangers because i don't find them very effective compared to gunners or snipers. Gunners because gunners just do so much more DPR and get hail of bullets. Snipers because their long range and ability to stack aim makes them generally more effective.

**Later on you can add assaults and Shinobi to your potential list. Shredder rounds are best on Rangers since robots are about the only enemy that won't have just been rocketed or sapped that will be in the open so that you can utilize "light em up" well... But it takes a lot of armor on a unit for this to be worthwhile, since in general "damage now" is better than "damage later" and AP rounds are "damage now"

Dragon works ok on assaults. This mainly to prevent melee retaliation from when you fail to kill something. Poison works ok on Shinobi, this mainly to prevent something from running away from you and then shooting you(gives them an aim penalty and mobility penalty) when you want them to stay in melee retaliation+dodge range.

Talon rounds can work well on Snipers in the late game by combining with kubikuri and precise shot for very high crit damage potential. Also rangers. But not often because of the aforementioned "only enemies outside of cover are enemies that just got blown up" problem.

Bluescreen rounds are pretty much useless. There are far too many ways to kill robots in the game to dedicate an ammo slot to this. Plus robots tend to have armor so the effect isn't that much greater than AP rounds... which also work on armored organics. Redscreen rounds... maybe? Not sure how potent they are.

Ironically Stiletto Rounds do have a good use (especially on snipers) since its easier to pick your targets with the sniper and the bonus damage on "weaker" enemies synergizes with their kit (potentially triggering Death From Above and Serial)

[Arcalane]

Bluescreen rounds are pretty much useless. There are far too many ways to kill robots in the game to dedicate an ammo slot to this. Plus robots tend to have armor so the effect isn't that much greater than AP rounds... which also work on armored organics. Redscreen rounds... maybe? Not sure how potent they are.

There's one thing they're really good for though, and that's Shen's Last Gift/Lost Towers. There are so many enemies that autoloaders and bluescreen ammo are amazingly helpful here.

Outside of that though, I agree they're somewhat gimmicky. I think they're more useful in LW2 though, as it seems to field more mechanized units (LOOKING AT YOU, HUNTER DRONES) than vanilla ever did.

[Goumindong]

For specific missions where you know there will be mechs? Sure, if you want to spend the resources to make them.

But otherwise the main problem is that because all the mechanized units are armored the +5 or whatever damage they do is only really +3(it was even worse in vanilla). Since the normal portion of the damage does not penetrate armor. You would have to shoot a lot of mechs for that to make sense.

I don't know I guess I will see when I make it to sectopods.