Using snipers effectively.

[GavinRuneblade]

Thanks for that on Low Profile!

How about Long Watch? If the soldier has AWC overwatch perks, then yeah, and Alpha Mike Foxtrot usually too. But taking it passes up Deadshot. Is it worth the trade?

For me this depends on the rest of the squad not the sniper. If the squad easily clears enemies on their turn and the main threat is a new pod wandering up then overwatch is great. But most of my squads benefit more from me shooting not over watching.

[Goumindong]

Thanks for that on Low Profile!

How about Long Watch? If the soldier has AWC overwatch perks, then yeah, and Alpha Mike Foxtrot usually too. But taking it passes up Deadshot. Is it worth the trade?

Kind of weak. The problem with Long Watch is that there are very few times you're going to want to put your sniper on overwatch. This is because

A: Overwatch prevents Steady Weapon
B: Overwatch (almost) requires no enemies be targetable at the start of the snipers turn.

In Vanilla long watch was really valuable for setting up ambushes with a shinobi(though frankly not as good as Kill Zone). A shinobi would get vision, then then the sniper would overwatch, then the patrolling enemy would trigger the overwatch(ideally Kill Zone after which the sniper kill zones errybody). But in Long War this can't happen because

1) no kill zone in the basic kit and so long watch is not much better than just shooting
2) You're less likely to have missions where both
A: Your sniper is revealed
B: You have a shinobi

In the bigger missions the fact that enemies often patrol towards gunfire and explosions means that you tend to want as strong a front line as possible... which precludes a Shinobi... which precludes optimally using long watch.

IMO you should almost always take Deadshot or Phantom. Deadshot pairs with Precision Shot and Kubikuri really well and Phantom is great for spotters. At the very least you're almost guaranteed to have a use, every mission, for deadshot. Not so for long watch

[Jacke]

If a Sharpshooter gets Kill Zone as an AWC skill, would Long Watch be worth it then?

Precision Shot means passing up Damn Good Ground. A shot with better crit chance and damage every 3 turns versus better aim and defence on higher ground all the time. Maybe.

BTW, does Damn Good Ground apply to a Pistol?

And in another topic here:

http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB ... ca3#p30766

it came up Kubikiri is bugged (won't kill targets with armour) and even if it wasn't, with a wounded target, the critical alone would often kill.

[trihero]

I'm totally happy with long watch actually. It enhances the DFA sharpshooter's role. I use DFA snipers specifically for untimed missions and I find them a nice perch, with long watch I get a couple reaction shots per mission I wouldn't get otherwise because the sharpshooter is too far back with regular overwatch.

Dead shot is entertaining, but at the end of the day 10% isn't that reliable. You have plenty of crit from aggression (up to 30), flanking (40), steady weapon (15-25), and the weapon itself has 20% crit at plasma tech. I used to think like you guys went deadshot then I regretted that extra loss of overwatch fire when new enemies come into view but out of range of your sharpshooter's regular overwatch.

If you rely on kubikiri or you're a snapshotter then deadshot helps a bunch but I find long watch is great for "the sniper on the rooftop 15 miles away from the enemy" build.

[Tuhalu]

I'm totally happy with long watch actually. It enhances the DFA sharpshooter's role. I use DFA snipers specifically for untimed missions and I find them a nice perch, with long watch I get a couple reaction shots per mission I wouldn't get otherwise because the sharpshooter is too far back with regular overwatch.

Dead shot is entertaining, but at the end of the day 10% isn't that reliable. You have plenty of crit from aggression (up to 30), flanking (40), steady weapon (15-25), and the weapon itself has 20% crit at plasma tech. I used to think like you guys went deadshot then I regretted that extra loss of overwatch fire when new enemies come into view but out of range of your sharpshooter's regular overwatch.

If you rely on kubikiri or you're a snapshotter then deadshot helps a bunch but I find long watch is great for "the sniper on the rooftop 15 miles away from the enemy" build.

I don't want Longwatch on a super ranged spec sniper. On missions where you'd actually use that, you don't want to pull an extra 8 man pod just because your stealth Shinobi is standing where they can see a new patrol when it wanders in. Kill the pod you have now with high accuracy, high crit Stock shots, then open on the new pod with a high accuracy, high crit stock shot on a target out of cover and you've had a turn to set up overwatch traps on your guys with overwatch skills.

[trihero]

I don't want Longwatch on a super ranged spec sniper. On missions where you'd actually use that, you don't want to pull an extra 8 man pod just because your stealth Shinobi is standing where they can see a new patrol when it wanders in. Kill the pod you have now with high accuracy, high crit Stock shots, then open on the new pod with a high accuracy, high crit stock shot on a target out of cover and you've had a turn to set up overwatch traps on your guys with overwatch skills.

Erm, I wouldn't be longwatching if there is a current pod engaging, and if there is no current pod and a new 8 man walks into view of shinobi and I get a long watch, well, not a big loss since I was going to pull it anyways if I have the free time to long watch.

The situations where long watch helps the most is when your sharpshooter is way too far in the back, and a new group walks into view of your frontline overwatchers. I've been very frustrated in that situation many times not having the sharpshooter get a shot in this case, and am way happier now with long watch. And I like having the sharpshooter way too far back so he doesn't get shot at; it's one less thing to worry about and one less person I have to find high cover for.

[Tuhalu]

Erm, I wouldn't be longwatching if there is a current pod engaging, and if there is no current pod and a new 8 man walks into view of shinobi and I get a long watch, well, not a big loss since I was going to pull it anyways if I have the free time to long watch.

The situations where long watch helps the most is when your sharpshooter is way too far in the back, and a new group walks into view of your frontline overwatchers. I've been very frustrated in that situation many times not having the sharpshooter get a shot in this case, and am way happier now with long watch. And I like having the sharpshooter way too far back so he doesn't get shot at; it's one less thing to worry about and one less person I have to find high cover for.

The counterpoint to that is you get to pick who you crit snipe out of cover if you have your Elite Stock and Deadshot and Precision Shot all ready to go after the initial overwatch trap. Longwatch may just pick the worst target to kill and then you are missing out on 25% accuracy and crit for the thing you really need to kill.

If you don't need the cleanup ability, then Longwatch is probably fine. I've just found it to be disappointing in actual use.

[cerebrawl]

Long watch is awesome... when you get sentinel, rapid reactions or killzone from the AWC. Killzone sharpshooters are beautiful in action, they can take out 5-6 man pods on their own.

I've got a 10 man squad with two killzone sharpshooters I take on 0% infiltration missions. I frequently take out 20+ aliens on my reveal turn between the killzones, other overwatch soldiers and grenade opener.

[trihero]

The counterpoint to that is you get to pick who you crit snipe out of cover if you have your Elite Stock and Deadshot and Precision Shot all ready to go after the initial overwatch trap. Longwatch may just pick the worst target to kill and then you are missing out on 25% accuracy and crit for the thing you really need to kill.

Your counterpoint is too theoretical in nature. In my practice, a kill is a kill and there are no bad targets since everything has to die at some point and if it can fire at you, it's better off dead. (incidentally, if you miss a long watch shot or any squad sight shot, it doesn't actually activate the pod, useful information for anyone out there who didn't know). If you get an long watch kill, you have a further opportunity to kill something more than that on your turn. The longwatch kill is a free kill you cannot make up for by having elite stock ready on your turn. Usually if not always I can still hit the target I wanted to (rocketeers, sidewinders, I pick on things that can be one shot without crit and that have annoying abilities) without the massive overkill of crit.

I initially went deadshot a lot like you, but over time I got disappointed in missing free long watch shots. I'm happy and have no complaints with long watch; your complaints are simply theoretical in nature. 10% crit is ok but not earth shattering. When I need to crit I can crit just fine - flanking is +40%, elite stock is +25%, base plasma lance is +20%, that's 85% crit without deadshot, so I only need to have 3 enemies in view from aggression to hit 100%. So it's easy to hit 100% crit without deadhot.

If you can't flank the target sure deadshot helps a bit, but there's still massive variance from missing 40% from flanking regardless.

Deadshot is good, I just like long watch better for the long range sniper who is fulfilling that role.

[Jacke]

What do you think about Damn Good Ground versus Precision Shot ?

[mudcrab69]

Thanks for that on Low Profile!

How about Long Watch? If the soldier has AWC overwatch perks, then yeah, and Alpha Mike Foxtrot usually too. But taking it passes up Deadshot. Is it worth the trade?

No it isn't.
1. Long Watch suffers from OW penalties as long as Squadsight aim penalties
2. You cant steady your weapon and OW.
3. You cant predict which enemy moves first, so your Long watch will typically end up killing a 6 HP drone instead of 9 HP officer. Even the officer moves first, you may end up not killing one, because you have to roll the crit to do so.

[trihero]

No it isn't.
1. Long Watch suffers from OW penalties as long as Squadsight aim penalties
2. You cant steady your weapon and OW.
3. You cant predict which enemy moves first, so your Long watch will typically end up killing a 6 HP drone instead of 9 HP officer. Even the officer moves first, you may end up not killing one, because you have to roll the crit to do so.

Point 3 is very misleading in practice: a kill is a kill is a kill. The long watch shot is free damage you would not otherwise have made on the alien turn, so you kill the drone + have the opportunity to kill something else on your turn again. It is not a wasted shot.

Point 2 so what? You only OW when there's nothing around anyways.

Damn good ground is preferred IMO; precision shot is unnecessary since it's easy to get tons of crit on a flanked target anyways and the more aim the closer you get to being able to shoot through high cover and laugh at it.

[UraniumOverdose]

What do you think about Damn Good Ground versus Precision Shot ?

Damn good ground is far superior. My sniper with DGG and depth perception PCS and an elite scope almost never misses.