"Impregnable" = yikes

[Rebus]

Five missions into new Vet campaign a 1d mission popped with a too tempting reward (+1 contact, +35 Intel or something). With strength at Light and knowing I'd get little Infil (but Avenger-boosted a little since only one zone), I thought I'd give it a try. Eight guys, 27% Infil, but figured enemy would be at low tech too and I could sneak a bit, which worked ok and got close to evac zone and on rooftop within three turns, VIP to kill/capture on other side of evac zone. Pretty happy. The big pods weren't too bad - height advantage important, good flanking, was going ok, but then four Faceless pop between me and the evac zone, levelling my building, and then sniper MC'd by a sectoid at extreme range so no chance to kill that turn. Well, that was the end of that. What fun though. Vanilla is much more fun in risky early game, then becomes just a bruising slog after that. LW2 has done a great job with your choices/results creating stories.

I read somewhere there are actual "trap" missions (rather than just ill-advised ones like this one), correct?

[Rebus]

Ha! Just noticed that the mission took place on 1st April!

[BeavBurger]

I had a similar mission, 7 days to take out a dark VIP, should've been suspicious that I had 7 days to run it when I had no intel assigned to that region.

Every second civilian i ran into was a faceless, plus against vipers and a few more advent than I expected.


So yeah seeing a trend with these two missions, and mine certainly felt like a trap - 100% infil with maybe 5 or 6 faceless against a squad of four or five CPL's with no upgraded equipment. Only the technical made it out alive of that... then I wiped my next squad the mission after.

The first faceless made me go "oh...." since it broke my concealment as I was trying to sneak up on that viper pod.
The second faceless made me concerned.
The third one made me stare.
The fourth one made me wonder how many were left.
Once I killed the VIP no 5 and 6 made me throw my hands in the air.
Their mobility/tank and cover destruction is brutal lol.

[Fiesgesicht]

Quick tip on sectoids:

You can break their mind control, psi zombies (and i guess panic) by flashbanging them (or otherwise disorienting them).

This really helps early on.

[Rebus]

Yes, thanks, that is a good strategy, and it was with considerable dismay that I realized no one had a Fbang on cooldown to use that turn. Bah. I had an early save so I tried a few different strategies last night, but nothing worked against so many 8-man pods and single drones, within the timer. Tried rocketing the VIP from nearer the evac only to discover there were actually 6 Faceless around evac. I realize now that this was probably the "Dark VIP" mission for Liberation 3 level, so going in at 27% was an even worse idea. Abandoned it finally and will just have to wait for another L3 mission. Still surprised to see it so early on though - at starting level tech.

[moroniccinamun]

Yea, Infiltration is a huge factor.

I once tried a supply raid with just full balls to the wall massed fire power, so the enemy was "swarming".

I attempted to fortify a good position and drag the enemy in one by one, and I may have succeeded if I didn't get too cocky with my shinobi and result in activating like 20+ at once; still managed to evac with no loss of life or even wounds though.


In general, the more intel gathering you have (and Avenger scanning adds significantly to that region), the "sooner" (more time left to infiltrate) you find missions. And different missions have different "weights", i.e. some are harder to find period, so you're less likely to get them with more time.

[moroniccinamun]

Oh yea, if it's a really important mission reward, keep some intel open for a boost!

I've done this few times with Ambushes, as those rewards are too much to pass up but I also want to make sure I have fire power rather than just a small stealth team.

[Zarnak]

I went into a dark VIP on veteran at over 100% infiltration. I had killed three pods and a faceless when a second faceless critically wounded my assault and a fourth pod ran into view. After reading the horror stories of 10-20 faceless and trap missions - and looking at all the civilians still on the map, the eight turns left to get to the evac zone, etc- my sniper was ordered to 'take the shot.'

Of course that pod and faceless were the last bads on the map and I got to the evac with four turns to spare. So I panicked and lost the intel award....

[Rebus]

Haha! Yikes indeed! Too bad on the reward. That Faceless mutating sound just creeps me out now, knowing what is coming. They didn't have the same reach in vanilla did they?

[BeavBurger]

Yes they did have that 4-tile or so swipe in vanilla
I remember on one impossible playthrough I had two soldiers stationed ontop of a freight container
Faceless hopped up, swiped both of them, broke the floor, both soldiers fell to their deaths.

Also I only recently learnt this but being on fire will prevent most/all actions, including attacks, however faceless ignore this rule, so if you're planning to use incindiaries to 'disarm' tougher enemies...

[PropheticShadeZ]

Yes they did have that 4-tile or so swipe in vanilla
I remember on one impossible playthrough I had two soldiers stationed ontop of a freight container
Faceless hopped up, swiped both of them, broke the floor, both soldiers fell to their deaths.

Also I only recently learnt this but being on fire will prevent most/all actions, including attacks, however faceless ignore this rule, so if you're planning to use incindiaries to 'disarm' tougher enemies...

omg thank you, i will now take that into consideration, i used a flamethrower, and got a panic on one, guess i was lucky i didnt rely on the burning

[Rebus]

Yes, I discovered the burning thing last night too and was a little surprised! I recall in vanilla that they could swipe with a full space between you, but maybe I just never had one swipe with two spaces in vanilla - once you figure out how to deal with them in vanilla they are a pretty minor concern. The attack-on-reveal-turn in LW2 is a major concern though.

Btw, I restarted from an Avenger save and a couple missions in I got the same Dark VIP event but with 8d lead and it was no problem really, even with a faceless right next to the VIP. The double-barrel blast was more than enough luckily. Had time to go around the outside to back of building and enter from that side, so fewer pods and not the faceless who seem to cluster in middle of that map.

* not being able to target citizens in LW2 is a potential problem vis-à-vis Faceless, but I assume this is more an early game concern
* I have had some problems with grenadiers hitting enemies who are just inside a doorway - targeting AOE right behind them, inside the room often doesn't damage anything