Do dark vip's no longer give a flanking bonus or did they ever?

[3dahs]

I was on a mission to subdue or kill a dark vip. I assassinated him because I only had 2 men for the mission. However, I noticed that my crit chance was not that high because I did not have a flanking bonus. Is this normal and a vanilla mechanic? Why wouldn't I get a flanking bonus if he was not in cover? I didn't see a cover bonus.

Also, one more question. In longwar do you get any bonuses for subduing and capturing the vip instead of killing him? I once captured one and I didnt see myself getting extra supplies / intel at the end of the screen like in vanilla. Although, It was a while back and I could of possibly just missed seeing it.

[UraniumOverdose]

Most of the time a Dark VIP mission is part of the liberation chain, or "find a lead"

Killing the dark vip will always count as completing the liberation portion, and you will always achieve "find a lead"

The rewards like Intel or extra resistant contacts are only for capturing the VIP. Generally if the reward is just intel, ill smoke the VIP. If the reward is an extra resistance contact or something of the like then ill send a well equipped crew and bag him.

[Goumindong]

I was on a mission to subdue or kill a dark vip. I assassinated him because I only had 2 men for the mission. However, I noticed that my crit chance was not that high because I did not have a flanking bonus. Is this normal and a vanilla mechanic? Why wouldn't I get a flanking bonus if he was not in cover? I didn't see a cover bonus.

Generally the "exposed" and "flanked" conditions are different. So things like hunters instinct do not proc on exposed targets, only flanked targets.

[3dahs]

Ah ok I understand that better now. Thank you.

[trihero]

Units have a designation - they can either get protection from cover, or they cannot.

If they can get protection from cover, then they will also receive penalties for being flanked.

If they cannot get protection from cover, then they will not receive penalties for being flanked.

The example would be the Andromedon; in the first stage he can take cover, but he can also be flanked. In the second stage he cannot take cover, but flanking doesn't give any bonus.

VIPs just happen to be like the second stage andromedon; it doesn't necessarily make sense from a common sense perspective but it's not logically inconsistent. The designer just didn't allow them to get protection from cover, but also can't get flanking bonus on them.

[3dahs]

Units have a designation - they can either get protection from cover, or they cannot.

If they can get protection from cover, then they will also receive penalties for being flanked.

If they cannot get protection from cover, then they will not receive penalties for being flanked.

The example would be the Andromedon; in the first stage he can take cover, but he can also be flanked. In the second stage he cannot take cover, but flanking doesn't give any bonus.

VIPs just happen to be like the second stage andromedon; it doesn't necessarily make sense from a common sense perspective but it's not logically inconsistent. The designer just didn't allow them to get protection from cover, but also can't get flanking bonus on them.

Thank you for your detailed answer. Now I understand it completely. Does anyone know of a mod that can fix this? I'd like exposed to also give flanked bonus.

[GavinRuneblade]

If you do that you are making it so Your own sparks suffer a huge +crit on every enemy shot. Plus you are nerfing all robots hugely.

[trihero]

I don't know of any mods, and I wouldn't consider that a fix. If all exposed units got a flanking penalty, then units like archons, andromdeon shells, robots, turrets, blah blah blah blah blah would all be way too easy to kill.

Bring a proper weapon to kill the VIP, not like a conventional smg. Sucks I know but alien relays are worse.

[3dahs]

Well, I'm not asking for every unit. Some units make sense not being able to crit. Zombies, Robots, and all the other large aliens who probably had their organs removed and work based on machinery. I've had no problem killing dark VIPs. It's not a question that I should bring better units or a better team. I just find it lame that a human who's standing out in the open who very obviously has organs does not have an increased crit chance. The only change I'd like is either put him behind cover or give him flanked status as he's human.

[GavinRuneblade]

Sounds like you want to toggle off exposed on him.

[3dahs]

Sounds like you want to toggle off exposed on him.

That's exactly what i want! But is it possible to do with all "Dark VIPs?"

You know what would be cool? Why don't we have a couple of Alien Dark VIPs? Like an Alien trooper with info on xcom, or a Sectoid who just finished interrogating a captured X-COM agent or Rebel. If you fail the mission a bad event happens lol.

[GavinRuneblade]

Sounds like you want to toggle off exposed on him.

That's exactly what i want! But is it possible to do with all "Dark VIPs?"

You know what would be cool? Why don't we have a couple of Alien Dark VIPs? Like an Alien trooper with info on xcom, or a Sectoid who just finished interrogating a captured X-COM agent or Rebel. If you fail the mission a bad event happens lol.

You can use playable aliens or similar squadmate mods to make alien characters and then add them to your character pool with only the dark VIP checkbox clicked.

[andanteinblue]

You can use playable aliens or similar squadmate mods to make alien characters and then add them to your character pool with only the dark VIP checkbox clicked.

I don't think the Dark VIP checkbox has worked in a long time.

[GavinRuneblade]

You can use playable aliens or similar squadmate mods to make alien characters and then add them to your character pool with only the dark VIP checkbox clicked.

I don't think the Dark VIP checkbox has worked in a long time.

*sadface*

[3dahs]

You can use playable aliens or similar squadmate mods to make alien characters and then add them to your character pool with only the dark VIP checkbox clicked.

I don't think the Dark VIP checkbox has worked in a long time.

I read GavinRuneblade's message and was extremely happy. I was thinking what a great idea!!! Then you had to go and remind me that all those options in character customization don't work.

Maybe we can ask Pavonis if it's possible for them to fix? I really dislike some of my friends popping up as the wrong classes too. My friend is 5'6... I just don't see him carrying a large gun and being a gunner lol. I use the mod Usemyclass which works really well but it's not working for reward units such as black market and jailbreak. I talked to the author and he said: " Only way to fix it is to beg them to replicate my logic in their code." If you read this Pavonis please consider fixing the broken custom character options.

[Devon_v]

I don't think the Dark VIP checkbox has worked in a long time.

*sadface*

There's a mod which fixes it. The name escapes me, but it's out there. It also allows you to define Engineers and Scientists instead of just VIPs.


As far as character pool classes, it's not broken as it has never respected previous classes since day 1, nor apparently was it intended to. That's why Use My Class exists, to provide that functionality. What we need is a Long War specific version that replaces the detoured vanilla logic for the Black Market.

[3dahs]

I don't think the Dark VIP checkbox has worked in a long time.

*sadface*

There's a mod which fixes it. The name escapes me, but it's out there. It also allows you to define Engineers and Scientists instead of just VIPs.


As far as character pool classes, it's not broken as it has never respected previous classes since day 1, nor apparently was it intended to. That's why Use My Class exists, to provide that functionality. What we need is a Long War specific version that replaces the detoured vanilla logic for the Black Market.

Thanks for the reply Devon_V. I'll definitely look around for that mod. If it happens to pop back in your memory please let me know, just in case I fail to find it. I don't understand why Firaxis added that option only for it to not function. Maybe just to take screenshots as that class in the character customization screen? It would definitely be amazing to have a Longwar specific version that could replace the vanilla logic for the black market. Usemyclass author told me that it works the way it does in Longwar to keep the stats randomized for reward soldiers, so not sure if it can be done on his end? I'm not a programmer by any means so I wouldn't understand, but this has definitely has me interested in trying to create my own mods. Maybe I'll start studying Python again.

After some additional searching through the LW code, they are definitely overriding the reward function for soldiers. The code is in class XComGameState_LWToolboxOptions, method UpdateRewardSoldierTemplates. Looks like they've done it in order to randomize soldier stats.
Can't have both mods overriding the same reward function, one or the other is going to win out - probably dependent on the mod load order.
My testing verifies that my reward function works in the absence of the LW2 mod. Only way to fix it is to beg them to replicate my logic in their code.

[3dahs]

Found it, it's called "Character Pool VIPS". Not sure if it works well with LW2 yet. I'll give it a try though. Thanks for the find.