I've seen some advice on which Rookies to guide into which classes via the GTS, but it's limited. I'd like to hear more about it, including refining or correcting what I've already heard.
So far:
Assaults can have lower aim as getting close with a shotgun makes up for it
Shinobis need better mobility
Close action troopers (Assaults, Rangers, and melee Shinobis) should have better Will
Specialists need a higher hack rating
EDIT:
Rangers and Gunners should have high aim.
Sharpshooters should have high aim and can stand low mob.
Flame Technicals and Grenadiers can stand lower aim.
Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Last edited by Jacke on Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Crap aim should become flame Technicals or Grenadiers.
Poor mobility, decent aim can be sniper Sharpshooters. Use them as haven advisors and on missions without timers.
High aim high mobility make epic Kenshi Shinobi. 100% Fleches from half a map away, especially with +50% crit, do absurd amounts of damage. Especially consider this if using the Ninjato from Musashi's mod as with careful target selection and squad support you can just keep doing it.
Poor mobility, decent aim can be sniper Sharpshooters. Use them as haven advisors and on missions without timers.
High aim high mobility make epic Kenshi Shinobi. 100% Fleches from half a map away, especially with +50% crit, do absurd amounts of damage. Especially consider this if using the Ninjato from Musashi's mod as with careful target selection and squad support you can just keep doing it.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Rangers are not close range troops, give your highest aim to rangers and just wreck everything.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Rangers are sometimes close range troops, but not as often as Assaults and Shinobis. They're likely to catch more fire being on overwatch a lot.Valaska wrote:Rangers are not close range troops, give your highest aim to rangers and just wreck everything.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Yeah sometimes Advent shifts their lines and forces your rangers to be close range/imbedded int he enemy line. Luckily the shorty shotgun is an extremely potent deterrent! Its usually not the biggest issue and my Rangers typically hold things at bay while other things focus on my high dodge Shinobi commander with both rapid deploy and a free smoke grenade.Jacke wrote:Rangers are sometimes close range troops, but not as often as Assaults and Shinobis. They're likely to catch more fire being on overwatch a lot.Valaska wrote:Rangers are not close range troops, give your highest aim to rangers and just wreck everything.
In the end a Ranger is just so versatile, my favorite staple class. My favorite class for killing is definitely reaper shinobi, being able to apply burn on a graze gives them an ability to survive that's not easily matched.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Defensive stats (HP, Dodge, Defense and Will) are all largely equally important, being more useful the closer a unit will be to the front line. But there are a few exceptions.
While Assaults favor defensive stats, Dodge is the most important, as it protects against critical hits, which overextended Assaults are most in danger of. Will is also important here, since panicking when you are out of position can often be disasterous.
Any unit you intend to get Suppression should have higher Defense. Supression is broken as soon as the unit takes any damage, and Dodge is better at reducing damage, than preventing it (Dodge does turn grazes into misses, but not at the same rate that Defense does).
Lastly, I've heard it said that Specialists make good Officers, and I'm generally inclined to agree (the defense of this stance is somewhat lengthy, so I won't elaborate unless you ask). Since they eventually get a skill that boosts other soldiers Aim and Will based on their own stats, soldiers with High Aim or Will will become good choices for Officers, and I feel this makes them good choices for Specialists. Will in particular is a good deciding value, since there's no real 'designated' class for a high will soldier, as compared to you wanting to make high Aim soldiers into Rangers, Gunners and Sharpshooters.
While Assaults favor defensive stats, Dodge is the most important, as it protects against critical hits, which overextended Assaults are most in danger of. Will is also important here, since panicking when you are out of position can often be disasterous.
Any unit you intend to get Suppression should have higher Defense. Supression is broken as soon as the unit takes any damage, and Dodge is better at reducing damage, than preventing it (Dodge does turn grazes into misses, but not at the same rate that Defense does).
Lastly, I've heard it said that Specialists make good Officers, and I'm generally inclined to agree (the defense of this stance is somewhat lengthy, so I won't elaborate unless you ask). Since they eventually get a skill that boosts other soldiers Aim and Will based on their own stats, soldiers with High Aim or Will will become good choices for Officers, and I feel this makes them good choices for Specialists. Will in particular is a good deciding value, since there's no real 'designated' class for a high will soldier, as compared to you wanting to make high Aim soldiers into Rangers, Gunners and Sharpshooters.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Low aim/crap mobility: Grenadiers (I have like 7 XD). I send them as haven advisers. Grenades are always handy for retaliation missions.
Very high aim (69+): Sharpshooters.
High aim: Rangers, gunners.
High mobility, below average other stats: Shinobis (I use them as scouts almost always, so I don't care much).
High mobility, decent defensive stats: Assault
Average guys: Specialists, technicals.
For me, rangers are the best officers. With Rangers you only lose a shot here or there to use the officer skills, less vital than using any special skill from any of the other classes, Specialists included.
Very high aim (69+): Sharpshooters.
High aim: Rangers, gunners.
High mobility, below average other stats: Shinobis (I use them as scouts almost always, so I don't care much).
High mobility, decent defensive stats: Assault
Average guys: Specialists, technicals.
For me, rangers are the best officers. With Rangers you only lose a shot here or there to use the officer skills, less vital than using any special skill from any of the other classes, Specialists included.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
If my ranger is not firing or on overwatch, something is horribly wrong.redscare wrote:For me, rangers are the best officers. With Rangers you only lose a shot here or there to use the officer skills, less vital than using any special skill from any of the other classes, Specialists included.
All my officers are specialists, with the first two actions normally being air drop on the grenadier. You can hack, command, haywire, focus fire, send drones out for aid, damage and revives all from the back. I'd rather hit a Get Some and slap an overwatch aid on my ranger who just fired twice than have my ranger fire once, not to mention not being able to double-move into overwatch or enter overwatch manually.
Different play-styles, certainly, but I really suggest you think about the combos.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
I don't like specialist officers, because then they out rank shinobi officers in stealth missions and then your shinobi can't command/mic from the shadows. It's makes stealth missions *disastrously* harder.
I think shinobi officers make the most sense. Shinobis typically just stay in concealment and they don't offer dps while doing so, and you almost always have one on any mission you go to, so allowing them to use abilities like command simply up your dps at no cost to your squad's overall number of moves. If you use a specialist/ranger officer, you are giving up some kind of move to use command, but shinobi not really, he's just hanging out making keeping an eye on incoming enemies and picking up loot bags that are too scary for normal troops to extend into.
Also, shinobis typically are of higher rank since they are on every single mission, I typically accumulate huge masses of them since they are hard to kill so it's easy to rotate them into officer training and still have enough to field missions.
The one exception I would consider is a sharpshooter (holotargeter) officer with Lead by Example, who lights up targets with holo and commands in the offtime. He still doesn't feel all that special all the time either though; just a regular ol sharpshooter can do tons of damage with the sniper rifle in serial or just death from above into stock over and over.
I think shinobi officers make the most sense. Shinobis typically just stay in concealment and they don't offer dps while doing so, and you almost always have one on any mission you go to, so allowing them to use abilities like command simply up your dps at no cost to your squad's overall number of moves. If you use a specialist/ranger officer, you are giving up some kind of move to use command, but shinobi not really, he's just hanging out making keeping an eye on incoming enemies and picking up loot bags that are too scary for normal troops to extend into.
Also, shinobis typically are of higher rank since they are on every single mission, I typically accumulate huge masses of them since they are hard to kill so it's easy to rotate them into officer training and still have enough to field missions.
The one exception I would consider is a sharpshooter (holotargeter) officer with Lead by Example, who lights up targets with holo and commands in the offtime. He still doesn't feel all that special all the time either though; just a regular ol sharpshooter can do tons of damage with the sniper rifle in serial or just death from above into stock over and over.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
"...command/mic from the shadows." What does the "/mic" mean?
I assume you mean the Specialist officer outranks the Shinobi officer because the Specialist would get more training in the GTS.
Isn't use of stealth Shinobi officers affected by their Command Range? It goes from 8 to 14 (maybe 9 to 15, depends on what the game does with the INI values) tiles range. Won't a stealthing Shinobi for a non-stealth squad fighting often be outside command range of the troops? So that means a Shinobi officer will only deliver most of the effect if the team is kept within Command Range.
Also, Shinobi officers take Oscar Mike for the speed boost for escort and jailbreak missions, as would Haven advisor Technical officers for rendezvous missions. Other officers might want to take Focus Fire.
I assume you mean the Specialist officer outranks the Shinobi officer because the Specialist would get more training in the GTS.
Isn't use of stealth Shinobi officers affected by their Command Range? It goes from 8 to 14 (maybe 9 to 15, depends on what the game does with the INI values) tiles range. Won't a stealthing Shinobi for a non-stealth squad fighting often be outside command range of the troops? So that means a Shinobi officer will only deliver most of the effect if the team is kept within Command Range.
Also, Shinobi officers take Oscar Mike for the speed boost for escort and jailbreak missions, as would Haven advisor Technical officers for rendezvous missions. Other officers might want to take Focus Fire.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
mic = Oscar Mike
It's not hard for the shinobi to be within command range of the team, they upped command range it a lot in 1.1. They probably should be close to the team anyways for safety/pick up loot reasons. The only time I find my shinobi is far away from the team is if my team has a nice overwatch position on a nontimed map and shinobi is sighting for groups to pull with the sniper, but as soon as they're activated I run the shinobi back to the team anyways.
I think if you are a min/maxer, officer shinobi makes the most sense since again they don't really "lose" any potential offensive/move actions when using officer abilities from stealth, while anyone else arguably has something they could be doing with their actions whether it's moving or using a skill. But there are possibly other considerations like if you want to maximize Lead by Example, then the shinobi usually doesn't have particularly good aim/will/hack to take the most advantage of. I've recently appreciated officer shinobis in 5-6 man squads when I use him to command someone to fire another grenade or another shot, while everyone else was busy doing their specialized role.
For haven technical adviser, I know I was once waffling about oscar mike vs focus fire, but I've actually used focus fire a couple times now like when advent is hiding behind cover and I just have my trashy smg/shotgun people attack (miss)
first to raise the % for my more accurate guys. Oscar mike has yet to see good use from me in haven advisers.
It's not hard for the shinobi to be within command range of the team, they upped command range it a lot in 1.1. They probably should be close to the team anyways for safety/pick up loot reasons. The only time I find my shinobi is far away from the team is if my team has a nice overwatch position on a nontimed map and shinobi is sighting for groups to pull with the sniper, but as soon as they're activated I run the shinobi back to the team anyways.
I think if you are a min/maxer, officer shinobi makes the most sense since again they don't really "lose" any potential offensive/move actions when using officer abilities from stealth, while anyone else arguably has something they could be doing with their actions whether it's moving or using a skill. But there are possibly other considerations like if you want to maximize Lead by Example, then the shinobi usually doesn't have particularly good aim/will/hack to take the most advantage of. I've recently appreciated officer shinobis in 5-6 man squads when I use him to command someone to fire another grenade or another shot, while everyone else was busy doing their specialized role.
For haven technical adviser, I know I was once waffling about oscar mike vs focus fire, but I've actually used focus fire a couple times now like when advent is hiding behind cover and I just have my trashy smg/shotgun people attack (miss)
first to raise the % for my more accurate guys. Oscar mike has yet to see good use from me in haven advisers.Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
So could have 4 types of Officers:
Shinob Stealth Escorters with Oscar Mike just need 1 or 2 likely
Shinobi Stealth Squad with Focus Fire etc.
Technical Haven with Focus Fire, maybe also Get Some
Sharpshooter Holotargeter Squad with Focus Fire etc.
Shinob Stealth Escorters with Oscar Mike just need 1 or 2 likely
Shinobi Stealth Squad with Focus Fire etc.
Technical Haven with Focus Fire, maybe also Get Some
Sharpshooter Holotargeter Squad with Focus Fire etc.
Re: Picking Soldier Classes for Rookies Not Created Equally
Sounds reasonable; this is roughly how my officers turned out to be in my current play through.Jacke wrote:So could have 4 types of Officers:
Shinob Stealth Escorters with Oscar Mike just need 1 or 2 likely
Shinobi Stealth Squad with Focus Fire etc.
Technical Haven with Focus Fire, maybe also Get Some
Sharpshooter Holotargeter Squad with Focus Fire etc.
Except I have like 5-6 shinobi stealth escorters (so many of these damned missions pop up frequently - you need them for hack, rescue from prison/vehicle, kill relay, evacuate vip missions). 1 or 2 is not realistically enough by the mid game. And even when they're not running stealth missions, I just need someone in a pinch to spot for supply raids/HQs, etc.
Make sure regardless that you have 2 soldiers you designate to be maxed out officers, this way you have a bit of redundancy in case one of them is out doing an HQ mission or you're training one, you can bring the massive bonuses to bear for retaliation or another critical mission. Having more than 2 maxed out officers takes too much time/effort when you have to train haven officers in the mean time.
If you have a hard-on for specialists like a medical specialist it's fine to turn it into a leader since the offense is so poor you can just command someone else to do the work, but try to make sure your "stealth" specialists aren't officers since you want your shinobi to be doing the commanding in those situations.