Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

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50shotsofgrayyze
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:09 pm

Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by 50shotsofgrayyze »

I'm only playing on veteran like a massive casual but I've found a strategy I'm going to try legend with and was wondering whether it is viable or I just got lucky on my current run.
The priority in this strategy is being able to generate and dominate as many supply raids/ troop columns and ufos as possible.

1. Do gatecrasher, research comms and put all on intel, send one or two squaddies on each mission that pops up and ignore black market until lasers. Build GTS.
2. Asap contact the other two regions you can, put both all on intel, hopefully have an engineer to speed up GTS and excavate. If you get a scientist they advise until network tower unlocked in home region.
3. Reserve your shinobi for evac missions solo and specialist for hack missions solo. Everyone else goes on fighty missions or jailbreak/easy stuff etc.
4. Once GTS is up set aside the best five shinobi and specialists and get training (this takes a while). shinobi first as they can solo most stealth missions.
5. Feel free to send garbage stat rookies on solo missions to be advisors, but as you have no income from havens not a priority- you are trying to power level gatecrasher team and pick GTS classes for good rookies.
I was able to get around 12 gops done a month due to super low infiltration times and everyone on intel at this point.
6. For research rush laser then predator and then beeline for coil. As soon as predator is done hit the first HQ.
7. You should have 6 squads of shinobi/specialist that can do most gops without help. Train fighty classes depending on what you prefer (I went mass gunner then sharpshooter). All specialists get revival and failsafe for panic evacs and no risk tower rewards.
8. Once liberated all on supply(/a few recruit if <13) saving for coil, build a bunch of predator and lasers with AP to help raids/columns. You will probably have got a few extra contacts from POI (I had 8 contacts pre comms building but that seems above average). Contact vaguely towards blacksite and all on intel in every region until liberated.
9. Don't forget officers (I use shinobi for the cheeky command extract while concealed but your choice)
10. Once you have coil (I'm in July just got advanced coil) build a few guns for heavy hitters and slay the ayy away. Now turn your focus to building a lab/comms/proving ground and as missions are getting a little hairier at this point be more selective until you have cash for armour and guns for more squads. Supply raids/ufos/troop columns take priority then anything giving a poi then lib missions I guess.
11. I'm planning on catching up with autopsies for proving ground once powered armour is done.

Because I'm doing so many missions avatar is not a problem yet (30% slowed) and going wide means I've countered a few TDEs too. Sending a solo grenadier or sniper to jailbreak is a bit messy at the start but once you get the premium stat shinobi/spec teams online they are very efficient. You might have to let one or two missions go before the first shinobis are trained but I think it's worth it overall. No early lab is fine because you are swimming in scientists and the inherent poverty of this strategy is kind of made up for by selling almost everything apart from cores/alloys/elerium early on. You don't really need that much cash for lasers anyway and skipping mag helps here too. Boosting is not a problem (need to ensure evac timers are at most 2 on solo hack missions unless you are feeling risky) due to the huge intel you produce and is used liberally. It sucks a bit not having fancy proving ground stuff or upgraded secondaries (I do get gremlin mk2s asap though for alloy rewards) until later but coil this early makes up for it.

I do most non timed missions with a spotter shinobi, a damage sniper and a holo sniper, a damage gunner and a suppression gunner (both with demolition). Fill out roster as needed depending on enemy activity. Pull pods who run into gunners who kill cover and suppress while snipers plink away. Flashbangs for sectoids and sneks.

I know a few say that GTSing all rookies is not viable because of the time it takes but 2.5 days per rookie doesn't seem so bad to me as long as you can survive the super early game with 8 guys.
Thoughts on doing this on legend? Did I just get lucky with trash strats?
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by Jacke »

Something to remember is that Long War 2 is just out and will likely see a lot of tuning over the next while. I'm not playing in Ironman as I like to be able to back up a bit to learn better and have a better game. As well, there are bugs. And especially display bugs that can be fixed by saving and reloading.

I've only played Legendary since a while back with XCOM 2. I think the game changes too much between the difficulties and you learn bad habits at lower difficulty you just have to unlearn. I'm learning LW2 Legendary but I've still got a long ways to go as I'm doing this slowly. Your tactics don't sound bad, but even now I know there's a lot more to the strategy that you have here. You're rushing things together that will be months apart. You will have less resources and things cost more. Your troops are weaker and the enemy is strong.

I'd suggest reading a lot about how people start and all the details of their strategy. Then as you've already played at lower difficulty, watch some Legendary Let's Plays on YouTube like Xavier Wynns. They often gloss over the strategic decisions. Make careful note of them. Compare them to your play.

The first rule of Legendary Club is don't get hit. The second rule of Legendary Club is don't get hit. The third rule of Legendary Club is everything you can carry besides medkits are more important than medkits until your troops get more hit points and face a lot of poisoning. Flashbangs, smoke grenades, and support Grenadiers "heal" by avoiding damage and time out of action or even death.

Paralleling your list, here's something like it. Some of these entries will overlap the ones before and after. These are what I think is best after a lot of research and reading here and testing in play. I may not be completely right and there may be equivalent alternatives. I don't go as far into the campaign as you did, but my plan has important difference and details.

Proper planning, preparation, and practice prevents piss poor performance.


0. All the middle level of planning ahead of time for the Legendary difficulty. Soldier class builds, which ones are main, which ones will just have one or two. Who will be officers. Who will be Haven advisors. How to run missions. Lots of discussion going on about these on these forums.

Plan out how you will build rooms on the Avenger. Here's my plan. I use the mod Commander's OCD to position the empty space and the power coils at start. I've got enough to worry about that I don't need to spend a lot of extra effort on this. If there's a 3rd coil, for LW2 power consumption, it's best to have a Power Relay or Resistance Comms on it.

+ Initial clear room
* Power coils

AWC PR +GTS
RC WS PG
*LAB DM PR
*SC PSI PR

GTS is first and goes into the empty spot. Your first engineer clears the top floor out and should be done before you have enough to build the AWC. Then engineers dig down to the future Lab room. Then you'll need power, and so on, and so on....


1. Do Gatecrasher. Take your time, no clock. Try to make all kills with gunfire to save the corpses. Try to grab all the loot dropped. Don't get hit, wounded, or killed. Loosing one of the initial 8 will really hurt.

2. Back at the Avenger. Start building the GTS.

3. Resistance Management, put one of your Squaddies in as advisor. Always have a soldier or better officer advisor until a zone is liberated. Before assigning, kit the soldier as for a potential Rendezvous Mission. You may not have one for months. You make get one soon. Set all resistance members to Intel for now. Later in the month, at most 1 or 2 supplies, maybe 1 recruiting. The exception is when you have most of your troops infiltrating. Then turn 1 to recruit, half to Intel, rest to supplies. When you get troops back in barracks, go back to more Intel. You have enough Intel at start for Resistance Communications and one new zone. If you want the second new zone and infiltration boosting, you have to earn more Intel.

4. Research Resistance Communications (20 Intel). Then add a new zone (80 Intel) and set it up with advisor and assignments.

5. Scan for missions.

You'll get extract VIP (always do with a single Shinobi or a soldier with Phantom, else will be revealed just as the VIP is), jailbreak VIPs (stealth with small team, maybe get some shots and loot), rescue VIP from vehicle (tougher, will need to bring more bang), eventually recover item from ADVENT vehicle and destroy the Relay (again tougher). You want to use small teams, rarely more than 5, but perhaps include 1 or 2 Rookies. Never just send Rookies. Always get at least 100% infiltration. Aim for more. Try to avoid the need to boost in the first month or two or it will be hard to expand 2 zones.

This is an important source of Engineers, Scientists, soldiers, and resistance members, along with some loot. Get these people out safe. The cost of Engineers and Scientists at the Black Market is far too high for the early months.

6. Don't deploy on a mission unless over 100% infiltration or you're damn sure of things. NEVER waste troops strategically. You don't have any to waste. Avoid or abort the mission rather than lose it. Send one or two Rookies as extras to mission (they will get promoted even if they just run across the map and evac) or better put them through the GTS. In the early months you want to stealth as much as possible to avoid needless risk while trying to still get hits and kills in carefully.

7. Once at 3 missions, will likely be short of Squaddies. Turn down the Intel in Zones and go check out the Black Market. You may get interrupted. Scanning is cumulative and can be done in chunks.

8. Black Market: Visit in the first 14 days before the GTS is finished. You have to leave with 35 Supplies. That pays for a OTS Upgrade right away. You want to be putting out 2 Squaddies every 10 days and 1 2Lt every 6 days. BUT you only want to make officers in a limited number of classes. I and others like 2Lt Tech Haven advisors and Shinobi and some Holo Sharpshooter Squad officers.

You'll need to sell some items. Selling 2 ADVENT Trooper Corpses or Drones will add to the 25 Supplies left after starting the GTS to give 35. If you want more, you'll have to sell more. Be careful here. Will likely be a Squaddie for sale. Might be worth it to expand the team.

9. Research Modular Weapons, Alien Biotech. Hybrid Materials needs 5 Alien Alloys and 3 Elerium Crystals. You'll have 3 and 3 from Gatecrasher. You'll need to get at least 2 more Alloys. If you don't get some on an early misison, after Alien Biotech you can render one ADVENT Trooper or Drone to get them.

10. Once the GTS is up, upgrade it with an OTS for 35 supplies. You want to get about 3 Shinobi and Specialist teams ASAP. You'll want whoever you're going to use for Haven advisors (I eventually use 2Lt Technicals advanced to LCpl or Cpl skills). You want Officer Squad Leaders (I used Shinobi and Sharpshooters).

11. Once you have an Engineer, dig across 1st floor to opposite corner, future home of the AWC. Then down two floors to the Power Coil where the Lab will go. When you have a 2nd Engineer, you can accelerate the building of the AWC. You can take the 1st Engineer off of digging to finish that up sooner. Save the Supplies for the 150 you need for the AWC.

12. Once the AWC is up, start training AWC skills. Focus on those that make a real difference.

13. After the AWC is up, you'll need more power to upgrade it. You'll need a Power Relay eventually. The Lab goes on a Power Coil because it's cheaper power-wise that way and it allows the Lab to progress even if you don't have a Power Relay built.

14. Eventually you'll get liberation and supply mission in your zones. You want to have a good team ready for them.

15. Be careful putting off Research that's shorter in time, like the autopsies. They give important tech. I used to put off Resistance Communications until well into April. Then I realized I could expand to 2 zones in the first week.

16. Don't skip Laser weapons. They have a bonus +5 Aim that's very helpful for troops leveling. Maybe consider skipping the next level of weapons. Or limiting how may you build.

17. After maybe being forced in the first months to sell for Supplies or render for Crystals one or two, horde Elerium Cores. You will be needing a lot of them.

And so on. Still working out the further details.
Jadiel
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by Jadiel »

I think the basics of your strategy are sound, but you seem to be heavily relying on a couple of things which I think you'll find a lot harder on Legendary.

You seem to be relying on stealth a lot to get through the early game. I find stealth missions are a lot harder on higher difficulty levels, partly because you'll be up against more aliens (it's amazing how much of a difference Extremely Light -> Very Light makes), but also very notably because the EVAC timer is much higher. So you say "Ensure EVAC timers are at most 2" - good luck with that on Legendary! You need to get used to doing stealth missions with an EVAC timer of 4, because that will be the general rule on Legendary (occaisionally 3 when you have the luxury of a 200% mission). I find solo missions are way too chancy (with the exception of Extract VIP), and tend to send a minimum of 2 men on most stealth missions.

As far as GTS goes, be aware that it takes 10 days to train a Rookie on Commander/Legendary, so that maybe the difference between what you've seen other people talk about and your own experience.
mudcrab69
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:50 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by mudcrab69 »

50shotsofgrayyze wrote: 3. Reserve your shinobi for evac missions solo
With VIP starting unconcealed, my predicament is he will be spotted between turn 3 and 4 and survive until turn 5 at best. I mean, yeah, dice rolling is kinda strategy, but it would be nice to have at least 50% chance of positive outcome.
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by Jacke »

mudcrab69 wrote:With VIP starting unconcealed, my predicament is he will be spotted between turn 3 and 4 and survive until turn 5 at best. I mean, yeah, dice rolling is kinda strategy, but it would be nice to have at least 50% chance of positive outcome.
Everyone one on your side without Phantom will start unconcealed. That's why you send just a single Shinobi, who will be concealed. The Shinobi scouts ahead and makes sure the VIP doesn't stumble over a pod. You can add in a flanking and sighting mod like Gotcha to better tell after the Shinobi has spotted enemy where the VIP can go so not to be seen.
Jadiel
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by Jadiel »

One other thing to bear in mind is that your progress through the game will be slowed by the fact that you can't start liberation chains for a month on Legendary. So even if you can complete missions at the same speed as you did on Veteran (which is unlikely), your first region liberation will still be a month after it was on your Veteran playthrough.
50shotsofgrayyze
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:09 pm

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by 50shotsofgrayyze »

Jadiel wrote: As far as GTS goes, be aware that it takes 10 days to train a Rookie on Commander/Legendary, so that maybe the difference between what you've seen other people talk about and your own experience.
Cheers for the replies guys, I didn't know GTS was ten days on legend. I think I'm pretty much going to require a total rethink because ten days for a whole roster is definitely not going to work as I was stretched thin with a five day training time. I might try just chain training shinobi and letting slower rookies pick themselves but yeah my strategy relies too much on low evac and GTS timings so probably not suitable for legend. Works a treat on veteran though. I definitely think going wide and soloing missions at the start is the way forward so I just need to read up on any other changes with difficulty and probably tone down the cheese a bit (I had huge success on LW1 impossible only fielding shotgun scouts until I had mass concealment then sniper school was in session).

On evac missions if the vip gets spotted early I evac my shinobi and vip runs for a bit then gets shot. If it's a turn or two from the evac then I might command or smoke or both if my shinobi isn't likely to be spotted. I find if you take more than one/two shinobi you need to kill everything so you'll need four or five shooty people. It's too hard to hide a big squad. I did take a support grenadier with smg and one flashbang to flashbang sprint on a few of these.
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by Jacke »

50shotsofgrayyze wrote:Cheers for the replies guys, I didn't know GTS was ten days on legend. I think I'm pretty much going to require a total rethink because ten days for a whole roster is definitely not going to work as I was stretched thin with a five day training time. I might try just chain training shinobi and letting slower rookies pick themselves but yeah my strategy relies too much on low evac and GTS timings so probably not suitable for legend.
Here's a link to the UFOpaedia page on XCOM 2 Long War 2 Difficulty with the different values for each.

Unless you use a mod like Commander's Choice, the problem of sending Rookies on a mission to get them to Squaddie rank is you don't get to choose which class they become. If you want to match their abilities to the class and especially if you want to get certain classes now, it's better to use the GTS. It's still 2 Squaddies evey 10 days and if you're not getting hit and getting hurt and killed, that should be plenty fast enough. As well, you need the GTS and one OTS in it to get those vital 2Lt's who will be Haven advisors and lead the squads, 1 every 6 days. Even just a 2Lt has several powers and effects that will benefit you.

As for the extract VIP mission, you need to overinfiltrate to the point where the enemy is Extremely Light and Vulnerable. Send only one Shinobi, with an SMG, The enemy will only have 3 pods and up to 10 troops. As long as you keep the exposed VIP from being sighted by those 3 pods, the Shinobi can scout out the enemy and find the path to the evac. As I mentioned the Steam Workshop mod Gotcha can really help see where enemy spotted by the conceal Shinobi can see. That way you don't move your VIP into sight of the enmey and he carefully follows the path the Shinobi finds to get to the evac.

There's a good example in Xavier Wynns Long War 2 Legendary Let's Play.

At this point near the end of the 4th video, you see xwynns get the mission and select the squad for it: 1 Shinobi. Then in the 5th video after infiltrating, you can watch him get the VIP out successfully. I found out about Gotcha from xwynns' mod list (on every video description).
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by Jacke »

There's also another mod to help with LOS issues, especially as what Gotcha reports seems to have some flaws, perhaps due to the underlying sighting mechanics. It's the Steam Workshop mod LOS Preview Ability.

LOS Preview Ability current doesn't provide an icon on the VIP's toolbar, but switch to the Shinobi before moving will allow you to check LOS of the enemy onto the path you plan the VIP to move alone.
HerrDoktorMencus
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by HerrDoktorMencus »

For what it's worth, I've been doing something very similar with good results on C/I. One difference is that I stopped training Shinobi/Specialist teams after getting to 4 squads and switched to building a B-team combat squad. 4 infiltration teams seem to be able to keep up with running Intel in 3 regions and I think I'm going to need two strong combat squads down the road.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Looking for opinions on my strategy if trying legend

Post by trihero »

I think the main thing that makes legendary easy (besides mastering stealth missions) is supply raid farming. If you field a team centered around that sort of mission you will be raking in corpses, resources, and exp, and can easily keep up with the aliens. You can deliberately not liberate a region and just have intel/scientist there all the time; with you constantly raiding/troop columning and the occasional counterops mission, the vigilance there will be super high compared to alert and they will keep throwing raids at you to farm.

They get tedious after a while especially with my lower end computer with so many people on the map, overwatch creeping, etc.
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